I had an interesting conversation recently with a woman on Twitter who told me that my policy of letting MRAs and misogynists comment here, at least so long as they’re not abusive, was keeping her and others she knew from joining in the conversation; she wanted a place to discuss MRAs where she didn’t have to deal with them.
I know a lot of the regulars here like engaging with the trolls and MRAs who stop by, but I’d like to create some space here for commenters who want to discuss the issues in a Troll- and MRA-free zone.
So I thought I’d try starting a new kind of Open Thread: A No-Troll, No-MRA, No-Misogynist, No-Rape-Apologist, No-Douchebag Thread to discuss the issues I cover on the blog and anything related to that: Misogyny, MRAs, PUAs, MGTOW, the “Red Pill,” and so on. Enjoy!
Oh, and if a troll wanders in, or if someone starts being douchey, ignore them and send me a note. I’ll delete their comments and ban them. No warning, no moderation, straight ban.
IME, how often a person gets harrassed varies widely depending on how they commute (car vs. public transportation, for example), where they work (Retail vs. office), and how much of a don’t-fuck-with-me vibe they have.
I used to get some form of harrassment on a weekly basis when I worked overnight at the gas station; mostly guys trying to get my number and not taking no for an answer. Since I left almost a year ago, I’ve only been harrassed once that I remember (some guy in a pedo van offered me a ride and got annoyed when I ignored him, it was kind of funny tbh). My sister does cosplay and gets a couple of gross comments every time she goes to a convention.
Tl;dr: different people will report different amounts of harrassment depending on how often they interact with the public, and what circumstances they interact in.
@auggzilliary
Wendy Vanity.
Wendy Vanity is a primitive ; no further explanation is possible.
Of course, being a spinster is infinitely better than marrying someone with “the reasonable expectation of being able to do with her as he pleases after she took the oath.” Quote courtesy of a charming commenter on Rooshy-Doosh’s site.
pinkfluffyunicrone – is spinster getting used more broadly? I know it gets used here (including the name of our Ravelry group) because of one troll, Mikey, who loved ranting in all caps about SPINSTERS and how he had a place in LA that was DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH. He did this repeatedly in one thread and provided much amusement and in-joke material.
@saltpickles
I feel you because that’s exactly how I feel too. I used to really enjoy reading about all sorts of gender issues on huffpost and alternet but those discussion threads are derailed almost from the get go by mra types. Its really sad. One funny aspect of it as that the same dudes on huffpost are constantly lamenting the absence of a mens page on that site but the irony is men (not all of whom express mra ideology) dominate the discussions on any article remotely related to gender, so whatre they griping about ya know? Whats odd is that they even dominate threads on articles about menstruation and the like whuch serves to ward off the women who might want to talk about something like menstruation. Its a real shame.
(Ive been lurking on this site for a month or so and only de-lurked a couple weeks ago. Ive seen a lot of the user names of people ive debated on other sites referenced on this site so I consider that knowledge is power. What’s weird is that some of those same guys constantly claimed in debate with them that thry werent MRA and didnt know much about the MRM. It’s almost like they dont understand how the interwebz work. = )
Kitteh- I’ve definitely been noticing a surge in popularity of the word “spinster.” There was a recent article in The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/31/dont-call-me-a-spinster
…and I have noticed it becoming popular amongst manosphere types as a scare/shame tactic.
I gave up on HuffPo before I’d even heard of MRAs. There were so many toxic misogynists there. I remember one godawful little whiner who used a picture of a puppy as his avatar. He was similar to the Blog Herpes here, perpetually moaning about how ugly he was and how nobody would sex him and how awful women are. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if it was the same bloke. He was truly repellent.
pallygirl: There is no such thing as “too many questions”.
If you want to talk to me about how to get started, feel no compunction.
Most people already know me here. I run Mancheeze. Click on my icon to get there. I mostly report on A Voice for Men’s hate site.
@DavidGerard I love that wiki and I might sign on as a editor but definitiely bookmarked it and followed u on Twitter.
I like the idea of a thread without fuckwits and shit turds. I do find lots of MRA’s on comment sections about feminism. They are annoying because none of them know what feminism is and they just clog it up with copy/paste crap or some other shit. If I go to an article and see a bunch of AVFMers there, I just cringe. It’s not like they have anything relevant to say. I just hate having to search for a decent commenter.
Sifting through the shit turds is hard on the psyche, especially being a woman.
As far as unwanted sexual attention goes- in my personal case, it happens about once a week. I’ve been told I have “resting happy face” and I do think I am approached by strangers in general very frequently ( total strangers have asked me to hold their babies). I won’t name what I do for safety reasons- but my job puts me in very high public visibility.
I’m currently reading “The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms” and I love it so much I could marry it.
Ann Somerville, welcome! I was going to send you a note about this, but obviously you found it already. Thanks again for the idea; sorry I was a bit defensive in the discussion.
Anyway, glad to see other people are liking the idea as well. I think I’ll make this a reguar feature.
I kind of like the idea of these cretins being ganged up on for a change rather than the other way around, but the dialogue is more important than my heart rate returning to normal. As long as we keep a space open for the troll bashing, I’m cool if we have a safe place.
Uh oh, according to that site, the theme song to my like is Tragedy, by the Bee Gees, which is pretty anthemic musically, but, damn the lyrics are depressing. I’m going to change the rules a little bit and declare that the theme song to my life is “Magic” by Pilot, because that’s the first single I ever bought and, dammit, that song still holds up. Also it’s much less depressing.
fireman saves kitty
David: You bought a single? You’re old.
I love the idea of a safe thread. It’s fun for me to watch trolls get exploded here, but at the same time- seeing that tiresome rhetoric being spouted by them again and again is triggering.
Katz, I bought a glam rock single. In the 1970s. I’m really old.
Marvin Gaye’s You’ve Got to Give It Up? Don’t think so.
I’m going to go by the Australian listing for that year.
http://youtu.be/iq2WJ2r0NkM
David, I probably still have my single of The Sweet’s Fox On The Run around somewhere. I’ll see you at the senior citizen’s record swap meet.
Regarding harassment… Yesterday, I had been to a friend’s birthday party and was walking toward the commuter train, when a man comes up to me and goes “excuse me…”. I went “yes?”, expecting some perfectly normal follow-up question about public transports and/or the geography of the city (happens to me all the time that some stranger comes up to me and asks me that kind of question – guess I give off an “I really know this city and its trains and buses”-vibe). And then he goes “Are you a girl?”. Since I was so totally expecting a normal question, and therefore was in the mindset of giving an honest answer to his question, I just said “yes”. He went “Well, I had to ask, you know, since it was a bit hard to tell – but you’re beautiful! You have a beautiful face!”. And then he walks on, while I just stood there staring at him.
Felt so annoyed with myself afterwards, that I didn’t say anything snarky, telling him that it was none if his business. The last time someone made this kind of stupid gender comment at me I was also taken by surprise and pretty much just stared at the man in question. So I said to myself that next time this happens, I’m gonna snark – but no. Not this time either. Well, the next time, I’ll try not to be this dumbfounded.
But really – you had to ask? Yeah, obviously. Can’t just walk by a complete stranger at the street whose gender you’re uncertain of… Poor man would probably not have been able to sleep at night if he hadn’t ascertained for himself that I was “a girl” (which is also odd, to say “girl” about someone my age – thirty-seven – but whatever).
Ooooo I remember LRB /squee
And I love glam rock. 🙂
I spin too! And knit. And do crochet. And, I will talk on these subjects for hours. Gladly 🙂
My spinning wheel is currently in a box in Perth, so I can’t take pictures at the moment, but would be happy to get excited about progress and make general comments.
Spinning is a lot of fun, and I find I need something to do with my hands when e.g. watching TV shows – currently crochet or language exercises. The only main issue I can’t help with is removing lanolin as I can’t get all of it out myself, so the things I knit from yarn that I spin are pretty waterproof. 😛
Re: Harassment
It is about once every four or so months for me. Keep in mind that I am very introverted, don’t speak the language (Japanese) well, I live by myself, and I stay home most nights.
Also, I have the impression that my boss told the people in my lab to be especially nice to me, and most of the people I talk to are people in my Japanese class, my friends, the people who run the corner store, some people at a restaurant that I like, and the people from my lab.
There was one place where I got the feeling I was being systematically harassed (I went once a week and I got weird feelings the last few times I went). So I just stopped going there. I went there to skate, and I like skating, but not going meant I could avoid the guy who decided to make chasing me with balloons into his hobby. I can skate other places though so …
But, seriously, who goes around chasing other people with balloons ???
Also, everyone’s experience is going to be different, and it changes from person to person, and from country to country etc. etc.
CW: harassment and general creepitude
All that being said, the incidents themselves are pretty creepy. I had one guy come to my door to sell me things (I think) and I can’t remember the first thing that he asked me to do but the second one was to give him a hug (which I did, but I thought was weird), and the third one was to give him a kiss (with an action in case I didn’t understand), at which point I did my best apology bow and kept repeating “chotto sumimasen” – “it is a bit of a problem, sorry” with him repeating the request and me repeating the refusal. Then I managed to slowly back into my house, close the door, quietly lock it and pretend I wasn’t there. Fortunately, he went away and didn’t come back. But, yeah, that was really really creepy.
All that being said, this guy was the only person of the maybe five to ten or so to come to my door to try something like that, the most recent person was really super nice (called me “onee-san” = someone else’s big sister) and was really patient with me looking up words on google translate. Hehehehehe. 🙂
OOoh, a shiny, relaxing thread full of people spinning? Awesomesauce.
The creepiest harassment I ever got when I was fifteen or sixteen. I was taking the bus home from an interview and was at a remote bus stop on the highway – no buildings or anything nearby. There was this old guy – probably in his forties or fifties – there, and we got to chatting, as you do. It seemed really normal and innocent and, you know, avuncular. Then the complements started getting a little… creepy, and I made a point of mentioning i was in High School because I thought, you know, jail bait – he’d back off.
If anything, it made him more interesting. 8/ He started asking about my thoughts on marriage, and wanted my phone number. I said I didn’t want to give him my number and he kept pressuring, so I lied and gave him a fake number. By then I was disengaging from conversation, physically moving away from him, etc… and when the bus came I all but ran on, sitting near the driver where he couldn’t sit near me. Unfortunately, he got on the bus, too. 8/ I was making plans to get off early and go hide in a store to make sure he couldn’t see where I lived, but luckily he got off the bus before I did.
It was really scary.
I’m coming too! First 45: “Little Arrows” by Leapy Lee (yeesh but I was still a kid) followed by “Crimson and Clover”. I have my first LP “Dark Side of the Moon” but am not sure about the 45s.
I don’t remember my first as I had a portable tape/AM FM radio thing before my parents bought me a record player. It must have been one of the following:
– Devo: Working in a Coalmine
– Ultravox: The Thin Wall
or
– Rupert Hine: Misplaced Love
But my first ever album I owned (bought for me by my parents) was Boney M’s Nightflight to Venus. 🙂