Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.
Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!
This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.
Happy discussing!
Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.
GNL: I expect that as more women get into dangerous jobs, feminism will step up to protect women, and make the work place safer for every one as a side affect.
So your “solution” to workplace safety is do nothing, and hope women fix it. You plan to do this by getting women killed in unsafe work environments.
Got it. Your way of engaging in workplace safety is to try and make enough women die that women do the heavy lifting of making the workplace safer for everyone.
That’s some killer activism you got planned.
The argument that you make to disprove the strawfeminist are the aruments that I want to make, but will get shouted down if I actually do make. Is this so very hard to understand?
Really? So this is what you wanted to say about the lack of sexism against men:
Good to know. I can see what that would be controversial.
GNL: So, I disagree that raising the wages would be better. It would cost much more. A full ride scholarship cost about $15,000 /year. To increase pay enough to really draw people in your looking at MILLIONS every year
So you think you are going to entice men into an underpaid profession by offering them $45,000 worth of scholarships? Why will this work?
I would like to see about 1,000 so the cost would be much less
Oh… this is one of those places where you are for the sexism against men; what with not actually arranging for parity.
The Irony, it fucking burns. You’ve said that when we disagree with you, it proves your point. If we agree with you, it proves your point even more.
Who is the one with the Inflexible Troof!
Well, it’s nice that he admits that his solution to men’s problems is “get feminists to fix things”. By making sure that more women die. Activism!
Wow this thread exploded… And I see gnl still stayed with his shtick… God he’s boring.
::tries to catch up::
You’ve more staying power than I have, Marie. I’ve pretty much given up on this thread. Between massacresthelanguage and InterminableJoe, it’s impossibly boring for me.
I think we should stop burning dinosaurs, because dinosaurs fall into two categories: cute and awesome. But we should turn the planet into venus. Because venus is awesome.
In fact, maybe we should replace ourselves with dinosaurs and turn Earth to Venus. That would work.
GNL’s idea of intersectionality: Marginalized groups are getting stuff to balance out the marginalization, so privileged groups should get stuff, too!
In order to engage gnl, you must deny reality.
Do you realize that this is exactly what you’re saying?
MRAs: Women are so entitled, they want men to do everything for them!!! RAAAGEE!!!
MRAs: Women will probably fix workplace safety, anyway. Then we can whine about how they’re feminizing the work force
@gnl
“My positions and ideas are not far off from feminism”
Nope.
“MRM is feminism (minus perpetual professional vicimhood) (minus man hate). ”
I d not know what feminism is, but I’ve heard mras describe it. Obviously they are totally unbiased /paraphrasing.
“The only way to defend feminism is adhomin attacks”
I can’t actually argue against feminism, so I make up arguments. /paraphrasing
“presenting “Strawfeminists” about half the time I get the boobs arguing with me to make my points for me.”
Only in your mind.
@joey
“Likewise in feminism (google “radfem”), but feminists just shrug that off by denying that radfems are representative of their movement /”
Aka and if 90 percent of feminists were rad fems you would have a semblance of a point, but our hateful bigots are so much less numerous than yours. (Not that all rad fems are hateful, just always hear stuff about the anti trans ones…)
“Don’t ask men to fix them. That was patriarchy, when men were supposed to look after everyone else. That’s OVER now. Didn’t you get the memo? Because we did.”
Go fuck yourself Joey. We don’t want your “help” we just want you to get out of the way and stop opposing everyone else’s rights.
“Yes, clearly Earl was soooooooo fuckin’ priveleged.
Being beaten by his wife must’ve been SUCH a privelege.
Being told he wasn’t a victim, because: man.”
You are so full of shit. Respond to what people are actually saying. Him getting beaten by his wife was horrible. Jut because it happened does not mean he didn’t have male privelge, but I don’t actually want to talk about what privilege someone’s got when they were being abused when they were being abused. And since you brought this up, you stop too. Don’t try to turn someone’s death into your talking point.
@gnl
“1)Well, in truth I think talking about man/woman equality is about like talking about dog/tree equality. There just isn’t a good basis to say we are “equal” when we are so different”
Go fuck yourself you little piece of shit. Men and women are not dogs, and are certainly not trees, they are the same fucking species and pretty fucking similar, though I confess I have no desire to share a species with you, you little turd.
“I’ve run for 3 different government positions (elected official, not sewage plant worker) in the last 10 years trying to get myself into a position of enough power to actually get something done. I didn’t get many votes, but it’s real world stuff.”
I’m not surprised you didn’t get many votes. You’re a horrible human being.
“So domestic violence is 100% men beating women and only women? The only aspect of domestic violence is heterosexual men beating heterosexual women?
(Note the hyperbole here…..you can bet on where this is going)”
…you’re misrepresenting the argument because its the only way you can pretend to have a point?
Wow this thread is full of trolls…
::continues trying to cacth up::
@kittehs
“You’ve more staying power than I have, Marie”
And I should stop, cuz I’m getting irritated by the trolls, just can’t look away… ^_^
@fade
“But we should turn the planet into venus. Because venus is awesome.”
…I object. For multiple reasons.
“There is no system to oppress men.”
But “The Patriarchy” hurts men to, an oppressive system is an oppressive system to everyone not at the very very top. There is not enough room up there for half the population. 99% of men are oppressed, and 99.9% of women are. So this 1% difference is so dramatic that it mean’s we can safely ignore anything bad that happens to men? (note:this is not a straw feminist I’m baiting you with) Arguing that women are more oppressed than men is by default arguing that men are also oppressed.
“You’ve said that when we disagree with you, it proves your point. If we agree with you, it proves your point even more.”
not always, but sometimes. It is true when I set up a straw feminist to be torn down. The disagreement over if Rasing wages or creating scholarships didn’t prove my point on scholarships. There are some good arguments to be posed in favor of raising wages. I think scholarships are better, thinking raising wages is better does not prove me right.
“So you think you are going to entice men into an underpaid profession by offering them $45,000 worth of scholarships? Why will this work?”
Well because teacher are less underpaid that fry cooks or lawn mowers. It is a much safer and more fun environment as well. The unskilled workforce gets paid less than the skilled work force, and that includes teachers. 4 years of food and shelter, that results in a higher paying job. That’s a great deal. As I said it won’t be pulling men out of STEM fields, it will be pulling men out of unskilled labor positions. Also, just because race is an important issue….The people that are most likely to be in these unskilled jobs are racial minorities due to historical oppression. Whites with the mental ability and will to attend college mostly do. These scholarships will mostly go to minority groups that suffer the intersection of male and minority in paying the high cost of higher education.
….
No, it is not.
Don’t get me wrong, if we could vote the troll of tedium out of our species I’d be all for it, but unfortunately I think we’re stuck with him.
@Fade
You should go read that Feminism 101 blog. You might learn something about actual feminism.
I… honestly don’t know what to say about that. There’s only so much you can say to someone not knowing that male privilege exists. I mean, what’s next? Gravity is an illusion? The sky is green?
I… I feel like I have to give up on this one. Will any of the non-trolls forgive me?
Wow. Just… wow.
You also fail to realize that even though the patriarchy hurts men, it does not in any way systemically disadvantage them like women. Nice try though.
Troll is putting me to sleep, and therefore I give you big cats chasing laser pointers.
@gnl
“Once people like you and every other feminist out there stops supporting the strawfeminists then we can have a real conversation”
…you…you really don’t know what a straw feminist is, do you?
“Do you *really* want to spend time playing word games?”
I don’t want to play word games with fibinachi. I’d get creamed XD
@cassandrasays
“Remember when they told a bunch of people who were feeding local strays that they wanted to help them, rounded up the strays, and euthanized them? Without telling the folks feeding them that’s what they planned to do?
I have nothing but contempt for those people.”
…I.. Why? What was their logic behind that? It’s just so bwuh and kinda creepy. (Probably would seem more creepy and icky if the trolls weren’t already trying to stink up the thread as much as possible.
“Oh, and the campaign that tried to fat shame people into vegetarianism.”
Gahhhh… Hadn’t heard of that one either… >:(
“Seriously, Kittehs, people have found dumpsters full of dead cats and dogs outside their shelters. They’re horrible.”
Faith in humanity lowering… I’d already heard PETA was as sexist as fuck, but lots of this is news to me.
Archeoholmes “But isn’t the idea using a passive commodity – boobs – aggressively?”
Cassandrasays “My body is not a passive fucking commodity.”
Yeah seconding cassandrasays, archaeholmes. I know I’m not caught up in comments, so maybe things changed, but you’re really squicking me out right now…
@gnl
“99% of men are oppressed, and 99.9% of women are”
Like…citation way needed. It’s like out of the book of learnin. Only numbers hes using are super close to 100 percent.vary it up a little dude. It will give a small, small chance of making you look like you aren’t pulling numbers out of your ass, but at least it’s more than you got now.
Continuing the brain bleach theme, since we all need it. An animal rescue org that doesn’t kill the animals that they rescue! Instead they give them pumpkins to play with!
(And unlike PETAs absurd idea that you should set your Yorkshire Terrier free to roam wild across the plains, these cats actually shouldn’t be pets.)
@marie
The problem is, GNL thinks 99 percent of men are oppressed because they are men. He laughed about people not understanding intersectionality, but he’s the one who doesn’t get that men can suffer ableism, classism, w/e if they’re disabled or poor, but that still wouldn’t mean oppression against men
Wait, a 15k annual scholarship is going to give people shelter, food and tuition for four years?
??????
Even if I believed that, you still haven’t addressed the fact the actual issues that keep men out of nursing, nor provided any support for your idea that scholarships address those issues.
Right because in the entirety of human history there has never been a single thing that has ever disadvantaged men based primarily on gender. Maleness means a life that is nothing but puppy dogs rainbows and unicorns.
(please dear god stop presenting the straw feminists. I’m getting a little tired of rewording them for you)
Dude, stop building straw-feminists. You keep trying a failing to twist what we say, because you got nothin’.
“Wait, a 15k annual scholarship is going to give people shelter, food and tuition for four years? ”
yes, The total cost of University in my state is 15k/year. That includes room, board, books, tuition, fees and some spending money. (the 4 year total would be $60,000 if that’s what you where questioning)
BTW, as I was coming home I realised that Uncle Joe does understand the principle of privilege.
He’s used the argument which underlies it, just in a different contenxt.
He avers there is a group, which shares a common trait; and which the wise person considers; even though he admits not all member of the group share in the activities of the salient whole.
His argument is:
Muslims want to wipe out The West (or some such nonsense).
There are are some Muslims who don’t wish to do this.
But one has to admit that Muslims want to wipe us out, despite that some of them not wanting to.
So the class (Muslims) is has attributes not shared by all the members.
Just the way all men gain passive advantages from being male: despite some members of the Clase Male, not living a cush life.
So, The First Joe does understand the idea. He chooses to pretend it means something else, so he can imagine we are like the straw feminists in his head.
On the whole, no. NEXT.