a voice for men antifeminism bullying evil women grandiosity hypocrisy I'm totally being sarcastic manginas men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed men paul elam threats

A Voice for Men responds to the Southern Poverty Law Center. With love.

Welcome to the fifth and final day of the Man Boobz Pledge Drive. If you haven’t already, please consider clicking the little button below and sending a few bucks my way.

Thanks! And, once again, big thanks to all who’ve already donated. I’ve been amazed and humbled by the response, which was greater than I had ever expected. Seriously, you rock. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming:

The look of love, AVFM-style.

[TW for rape apologism and domestic violence.]

Paul Elam of A Voice for Men has responded to the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights Movement with an letter to the organization’s head. Apparently, the SPLC is confused, and AVFM isn’t hateful at all! Indeed, it’s like the opposite of hateful. Loveful, you might call it. Here’s Elam:

Contrary to what readers of your site may be led to believe, the goals of SPLC and AVfM are quite similar: We both work to identify groups who seek to oppress others, and inform the public of the inequities they would perpetuate. … The work of AVfM is vital and, despite what you may think, not dissimilar from the goals and aims of the SPLC.

Indeed, AVFM might better be thought of as “a human rights organization.”

Elam also clears up a little matter of terminology:

[T]he term “mangina” is not a euphemism for “weak men,” but rather a label for men who enable and excuse female misconduct – ranging from physical violence to exculpatory false reporting of crimes …  – solely because the offender is female (and to gain women’s approval).

I think I can speak for all manginas when I say, thanks for the clarification, Paul!

At the end of the letter, Elam gets all Martin Luther King on us:

Those who fear truth, and brand it as hatred and bigotry, hide behind the worst kind of cowardice – the sniveling complacency that for generations allowed the rich to starve the poor, for one person to own another because of the color of their skin, and for the officers at Nuremberg to claim they were “just following orders.”  …

This movement will grow, as it has since its inception, and the time will come when the SPLC (and other groups) must admit our fundamental similarities and aspirations.  I am inviting you, with open arms, to do just that.

The alternative, I fear, is that you come down on the wrong side of history, with the likes of Dred Scott as your legacy.

Inspiring stuff, Paul. Nazis, Dred Scott– you totally nailed it. Who could possibly doubt your passion, or your deeply moral vision?

Here’s a link to his letter.

Oh, wait, that wasn’t a link to his letter. That was a link to a post of his in which he tells a feminist that:

I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.

Here’s the link to his letter.

Oops! That was actually a link to a post in which he suggests that “vermin” like me (and another feminist writer who has also been critical of the Men’s Rights movement) deserve to be killed. Or have something awful and permanent happen to us that would solve “the problem” that is us. He’s a little vague.

Here, at long last, is the link.

Oh, sorry, that’s actually a link to a post in which Paul puckishly suggested that October, currently designated as Domestic Violence Awareness Month, should be renamed “Bash a Violent Bitch Month.” As he explained:

I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess.

What a wit!

Anyway, here’s the letter.

Gosh darn it. I’m not doing too well with links at the moment. That’s actually a link to a post in which Elam suggests that women who drink and go home with men are “freaking begging” to be raped:

Damn near demanding it.

And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.

I guess that’s what they call “human rights advocacy” right there.

Ok, finally, the letter:

Damn. That wasn’t even by Paul. No, that was a guest post on A Voice for Men by a fellow named Keith, with an explanation for why men don’t just beat women all the time. (It’s not why you’d think!)

Let’s face it guys if it was about size or domination, or patriarchy or anything other than power, wouldn’t we be kicking the shit out of women on a daily basis in the streets? The only reason men don’t randomly pound the shit out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives. They are not worth the trouble! That’s the only reason there isn’t bodies strewn all over the streets.

That’s enough human rights advocacy for me for now. Here’s the actual link to Elam’s letter.

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10 years ago

ithiliana: I did theater (and journalism), in high school and college, before I went on the debate circuit.

Then I spent 15 years teaching interrogation. That’s a case study in keeping track of what people say; and in teaching other people to do it. That, of course, is different from the platform instruction, which is how we give them the theory that the practical exercises (two hour sessions of them interrogating us), examine.

The idjits who come in to browbeat us, small beer to that, much less a real-world interrogation.

10 years ago

Idealogue, David won that debate and Paul lied out his ass about it, just like he lied in his response to the SPLC. Nice try, though.

And speaking of that: Paul’s response to the SPLC was not for them. Otherwise he would not have lied about what they said. For example the register-her where he claims there are only proven criminals on the list, and people that are beyond the shadow of a doubt, false accusers. Why lie to the SPLC, when in their article, they gave an example of someone on register her who had ONLY blogged her opinion/fear of her toddler girl having her pants pulled down by a man helper during potty time at preschool/daycare?

Not only was that just her blog, but she apologized and took the blog down, but she is still on register-her. Paul Elam was not interesting in raising her awareness, or educating her or me, or anyone. He just rebuked her further, ‘you attacked FATHERS”. So truly this is about abuse, not activism. This is an abuser’s lobby, like they are called, and not a civil rights movement.

They also have a woman on register her that simply LOST a controversial case against her husband. Oh but, he was convicted of abusing her. It was just the rape part that they could not prove. In no way was it proven that he did not do it. In no way has it been proven that she lied. In fact, he indeed abused her, and Paul holds the guy, Fillers, up as someone persecuted by the court system. Meanwhile, Paul and his abuser’s lobby put up a PROVEN victim of spousal abuse on register-her and say “history of mental illness”. Implying that makes a person less of a person, or that someone with mental illness deserves ridicule. We don’t even know what mental illness. People that suffer from abuse LIKELY will have PTSD. Does that count Paul? So your heroes “political prisoners” abuse women, give them PTSD and you can do an extra dance by labeling them mentally ill?

In order for “mentally Ill” to be relevant in this case, Paul Elam needs to explain WHY it’s relevant. No, what he’s trying to do is say simply “she’s crazy”, which carries no meaning. In what way is someone “crazy”? This is old fashioned woman hate and abuse.

That man was a PROVEN abuser, he was convicted. He was found not guilty of rape only because you can’t always prove that. That does not mean it did not happen, it does not mean that the woman is a false accuser. So he is putting ABUSE VICTIMS up on register her and naming the abusers as persecuted because they are subjected to due process like the rest of us. Also, he got custody of the kids. He had custody throughout the trial and Paul Elam during that time, kept claiming that the man was persecuted. That case actually flies int he face of everything delusional Paul Elam thinks and tries to argue about these issues.

10 years ago

Haha, Elam is using Xardoz’s picture of him as his new avatar.

10 years ago


Awwww, he does care! ^_^

Boadie MacLeod
10 years ago

“A Voice for Men” is the SAME web site that posted that pro-rape article!!! These guys are just a bunch of woman-hating rapists!


Boadie MacLeod
10 years ago

“A Voice for Men” is the SAME web site that posted that pro-rape article!!!


Sorry, there’s the full link.

Ben Atherton-Zeman
10 years ago

well put! Sharing.

10 years ago

I wonder how these men treat their mothers.

10 years ago

I agree. I believe in Men’s rights. But, I think spewing hatred anywhere hurts the cause. What gets talked and written about isn’t that which needs to change, but the hatred itself – which, come to think of it, is probably the 1st thing that needs to change. I read some of that stuff, and I think it’s crazy. Some of those guys seem to think that the sole purpose of ALL feminists, and most women, is to destroy men and gain power for women. That’s demonization, pure and simple – the same thing they accuse feminists of.

Manginas – right. Alienate the people you most need to influence. Smart.

But, you can also find some pretty virulent hatred spewed from some feminists, too. What is sexist, in this case, is that you very selectively chose some sample hatred from one side of that divide, but not the other. And, that is at the very heart of what’s driving so many of those men to such fury.

We hate that which has (perceived) power over us. That’s why some feminists hate men. That’s why some men hate feminists.

Last thing: I wonder how many feminist-hating men go to feminist sites and spew anti-male hatred, just to provoke other men. I also wonder how many men-hating feminists do the same thing on MRM sites.

10 years ago

Cool, so you found a MRA guy who isn’t living up to the ideal. If we are discrediting movements on that basis, then down goes every social movement ever. You want to see laughing about the rape and murder and mutilation of another group of people? How about ad hominem attacks, typecasting the opposition as grotesque and sexually inadequate? No problem.. Have you ever spent two minutes on factcheckme’s blog and brushed up on the innermost thoughts of her little lesbian commune? How about undercover punk? There are even feminists who espouse similar views in the most mainstream of forums, such as Maureen Dowd at the NYT who describes men as unnecessary, “ornamental” in society, and a “frustrating and persistent problem” caused by evolutionary biology. Can you imagine the reverse scenario? In the biggest newspaper on the planet? If I thought like a third wave feminist, I’d call you a traitor to your sex (in lieu of “mangina”). But since I’m interested in helping everybody up, so to speak, I’ll just say that you’re using fallacious logic to prove a point that doesn’t make any sense. This stuff is not zero-sum.

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