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“And what if they get killed?” A Voice for Men as an antifeminist Witchfinder General

So John the Other has responded to my post about A Voice for Men’s “bounty” on the makers of the SCUM video. It’s a fairly unhinged rant, even by his standards. Here’s the money quote:

It’s a bizarre bit of circular logic: if some deranged asshole literally kills one or more of the videomakers, this is proof that the Swedish justice system isn’t working, which therefore justifies the deranged asshole’s actions. So the existence of vigilante violence justifies vigilante violence that justifies vigilante violence.

Since when is making a video a capital crime?

After all this, John rather bizarrely claims that “[u]nlike David Futrelle, I do not and will not lend myself to the support of violence, or indeed, of murder.”

That’s because, according to his daft logic, shooting  the videomakers would count as “self defense,” because evidently someone posting a video on YouTube that you don’t like is equivalent to someone coming at you with a knife.

While challenging AVfM’s “bounty” — without actually defending the video in any way — apparently means that I support murder. Go figure.

Vincent Price as the Witchfinder General

But dwelling too much on the specifics of this one case is to miss the larger point. A Voice for Men has essentially set itself up as a sort of antifeminist Witchfinder General. In the 1968 cult film of that name, you may remember, the corrupt Witchfinder tested whether the accused were witches by lowering them into water; those who floated were judged guilty, and burned at the stake. Those who sank were innocent, but dead.

Paul Elam and his sidekick John have a similar approach. They intend to do feminists harm, to “fuck their shit up,” regardless of what they’ve done or said. None of those who have been placed in the Register-Her “registry” as “bigots” deserve to be smeared or harassed (or put on the phony “registry” in the first place). But if you look at what they are ostensibly there for, well, you’ll discover that it matters not at all to Elam whether they sink or float. The point is to harass feminists; almost any excuse will do.

One of those on the “registry,” a radical feminist who posts online as Vliet Tiptree , has indeed said some fairly vile things about the male gender; she is the only one who might conceivably be described as a “bigot.” But others are there on trumped up “charges” based on highly tendentious readings of some of their writing; it’s clear that they’ve been targeted mainly because they have been publicly critical of the men’s rights movement.

Meanwhile, another of the alleged feminist bigots is not a feminist at all, but rather a traditional-minded “mom blogger” who aroused Elam’s fury by saying that she didn’t want male daycare volunteers taking her daughter to the bathroom, and for suggesting (incorrectly) that men make up 99% of abusers. (She has since apologized, but remains on the “registry.”)

And one recent candidate for inclusion, a feminist blogger whom Elam has pledged to “stalk,” seems to have made it on Elam’s naughty list simply because she has helped to highlight how pervasive harassment of women and feminists is online. Complain about harassment; get harassed. But Elam’s “critiques” of her are all suspiciously vague. It’s not clear if he has read even a single one of her blog posts. Nonetheless, he promises her that

by the time we are done you will wax nostalgic over the days when all you had to deal with was someone expressing a desire to fuck you up your shopworn ass.

In a post from some months back, Elam offered a similarly psychosexually charged justification for his campaign to “Fuck Their Shit Up.” Directly addressing the “feminazi scumbags reading this right now,” he declared:

I am not going to stop.  You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage.  I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.

Let’s repeat that last bit for emphasis:

the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.

Does anyone still doubt that the aim of A Voice for Men and Register-Her.com in publishing personal information of their enemies is to intimidate – indeed, to terrorize?

Does anyone still doubt that their campaign is driven by hate?

Does anyone still doubt that they don’t give a shit if their actions cause someone to be physically assaulted or even killed?

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Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
10 years ago

Wow…

Although I’d disagree with your third question, because I think they would be pleased as punch of someone was beaten, raped, and/or murdered. This looks like nothing so much as the behavior of white supremacist and extreme religious fundamentalist militia nutters who are all members of the same websites, communicate extensively with one another, and yet somehow get legal cover by claiming that when one of their bunch acts on the violent rhetoric that it was a “lone wolf” and no blame or responsibility can be hung on the rest of them.

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

Civil Rights Movements: Apparently look surprisingly like lynch mobs. Who knew?

ithiliana
10 years ago

*bookmarks to drop on trollz head in future!*

And yeah, witchhunt is perfect image for it.

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

Oh, so now it’s clear: they admit they would like these young women to be killed for the crime of making a video about killing men.
Good to know.

So, where are all the moderate MRAs we hear so much about?

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Elam qualifies as genuinely creepy. And if that’s shaming language, so be it.

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

Still not moderate, still not reasonable.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

One of those on the “registry,” a radical feminist who posts online as Vliet Tiptree , has indeed said some fairly vile things about the male gender; she is the only one who actually deserves the “bigot” label.

She still doesn’t deserve to have people hunting down her real identity to harass, threaten, or actually attack her.

Even if someone is an actual violent criminal–literally violent, not she-said-mean-words violent–they still don’t deserve to be the subject of Internet vigilantism. Not unless the only purpose of it is to immediately give them over to the police along with evidence of their crimes.

But to put her information out there to a population of the most paranoid and discontented men you can find, along with lots of rhetoric about how she’s to blame if she gets killed–that’s not something to do even to real criminals.

Let alone people simply exercising their right to free speech in an upsetting way.

(Also: I’ve gotten the “How dare you claim men intimidate women! We’re going to get you for that!” paradox-threat recently too. It’s charming.)

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

So, where are all the moderate MRAs we hear so much about?

Sure as hell not speaking out against this.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
10 years ago

Holly, I’ve said multiple times that I have a real problem with this, you can check the Reddit discussion in which I argued with Elam for proof (it’s linked on the Manboobz board, in a topic started by GamerLioness). But what am I supposed to do about it? We disagree, but it’s his site. I mean, I’m staying the hell away from AVfM from here on out, because this is morally wrong and also I would not be surprised if the law got involved pretty soon. But aside from that, I can’t do much.

Wetherby
Wetherby
10 years ago

Would it be appallingly nerdy of me to point out that Witchfinder General isn’t in fact a Hammer film?

(This was a rhetorical question, of course)

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

Yeah, when Paul Elam is consistently cited as being the “moderate, reasonable” voice of the MRM, you know there’s something seriously fucked up about that movement.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
10 years ago

There are moderate MRAs? Sounds like an oxymoron… about morons.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
10 years ago

Something else that bothers me about RH.com is that the records are permanent, even after the criminals listed have already repaid their debt to society. The already went through the criminal justice system and received their sentences. They don’t need a group of angry vigilantes keeping a hit list of them on the Internet long after they get out of prison. I feel the same way about government registries of offenders, too. Once people have served their time, they should get another chance to start life again on a better note. People don’t have a good chance to better themselves if they can’t get a clean slate after serving their time.

The site lost all credibility with it’s bigot and corrupt public official categories, though. None of those women were convicted of any crimes in the first place. They’re listed with actual criminals in a way to deceive people into believing they are also criminals, and to hurt their future chances of employment. It’s also caused some of the women listed to receive threats and harassment from radicals. Once a website endangers people and lies about them to make it harder to find a job, it is no longer protected free speech.

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

Feminism as a whole, and many modern women remind me of the neighbor who burns leaves when the wind is blowing directly into their neighbors house. They stoke the flames and when the wind is just right they douse the flames with wet leaves and the smoke pours into their neighbors home. They’ll plant wandering bushes along the property line that springs up in their neighbors garden. They’ll place a security light that shines in their neighbors window at night.

They’ll push and they’ll prod. They’ll irk and annoy. Their foul tongue’s wag incessantly, razzing the frustrated neighbor. They do everything just inside the letter of the law. Finally, when the aggravation becomes too great, the beleaguered neighbor lashes out. Then the neighbor who took such joy in tormenting her neighbor and pushing every boundary to it’s limit cries out, “See! See! He’s dangerous and violent! Lock him up!”

VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

I’m staying the hell away from AVfM from here on out, because this is morally wrong

Thank you, MRAL. Everything sounds sarcastic on the Internet, but I really mean that. You’re doing the right thing.

darksidecat
10 years ago

A professor of mine from last year recently published a book making the case against sex offender registries (and, no, mra twits, he was not roundly accused of being a misogynist for doing so, because his reasoning, unlike yours, was not grounded in misogyny). Well, I am just saying that I think there is plenty of solid grounds to debate them as a social policy. However, I think they are a red herring in this discussion, because register-her is in no way comparable. It is not something done and maintained by the justice system as part of a legal sentence after a criminal conviction, it is a bunch of internet vigilanties who throw names on it as they please. So, apples and oranges, regardless of how one feels about sex offender registries as a social policy.

xardoz
10 years ago

HAHAHA I can’t believe Elam said this shit gives him an erection. People should dust that quote off every time he opens his gap.

AVFM’s response was a bowl of word salad and immature insults, they’re losing their grip on sanity rapidly. The disturbing thing is that their flying monkeys, like Alek Novy, STILL eat it up like pigs from a trough! Anyone impartial comparing AVFM’s articles with Manboobz will instantly see who the adult in the room is. Hint: It’s the one NOT advocating stalking.

I suspect John the Otter and Paul Elam have no one to cook them Thanksgiving dinner, and they need some nice burning rage to keep their tummies warm. I hope that’s the only thing wrong with them, but if they’re really going nuts, they can use all the unused tinfoil to make a hat to keep Big Daddy’s thought control out of their skulls.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

Holly, I’ve said multiple times that I have a real problem with this, you can check the Reddit discussion in which I argued with Elam for proof (it’s linked on the Manboobz board, in a topic started by GamerLioness). But what am I supposed to do about it? We disagree, but it’s his site. I mean, I’m staying the hell away from AVfM from here on out, because this is morally wrong and also I would not be surprised if the law got involved pretty soon. But aside from that, I can’t do much.

I, and I’m really trying not to be condescending or sarcastic here, really appreciate that, MRAL.

ithiliana
10 years ago

MRAL: Joining in with the others to thank you for trying to address Elam’s hatred and then boycotting the blog. Good for you!

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

And I stand corrected; this thread has Scandinavian MRAs going “dude not cool” at Elam:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mlnzf/some_questions_from_sweden_a_swedish_newspaper/

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

NWO’s example is actually great. The female neighbor does something annoying but entirely nonviolent, the MRA neighbor responds violently, and then everyone calls him violent.

Sounds about right, yeah.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Aaaand now we know what went down in NWO’s neighborhood. The man is not that creatively inclined.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

MRAL, I’m proud of you, thank you for speaking up.

Xanthe
Xanthe
10 years ago

John the Other really has parted company from rationality if he thinks David has supported violent retribution in any way whatsoever in this entire series of threads.

Pretending the Swedish video is a threat of murder to men, everywhere, is a ridiculous beat-up: it’s not a threat issued at any one particular person, but a repellant piece of sensationalist agitprop to publicise a play. This is clearly not the same as the barrage of abuse and threats directed at individual women as highlighted by the #mencallmethings twitter hashtag, which are in the exact style of intimidation and bullying utilised by AVfM when it posts the full names, address, and contact details of women on the R-H.com website.

I called it a witch-hunt in yesterday’s thread and I’m chuffed to find with David’s great taste in movies (well aside from featuring Human Centipede a few days back, yuck!), he’s found a yummy image of Vincent Price as witch-hunter to adorn this thread: now take note, there’s a man who could be creepy in a good way. Paul Elam, you’re no Vincent Price: you’re wrong creepy.

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