Sometimes it’s useful to remember just what the early second wave feminists were reacting against. Here, from a comic circa 1970 (judging from the clothing) is a sort of double-whammy of misogyny: hide your smarts, girls, or you’ll end up a wizened old maid at the ripe old age of … twenty?
The MRAs today who prattle on about how declining marriage rates mean that men are wising-up to the evils of feminism need to remind themselves that delaying marriage is a good thing for both men and women (the earlier the marriage, the greater the likelihood of divorce; the later the marriage, the more time for men and women to get decent education, start a career, mature a bit, etc etc). In the fifties, obviously, the pressure for women (and to a lesser degree, men) to marry very young was immense. This comic suggests that these pressures didn’t vanish with the coming of the sixties counterculture or even with the first stirrings of second wave feminism.
Comic from Comically Vintage.
NWO:
O_O Err… You do realize that divorce rates are percentages of marriages that end in divorce, and are therefore independant of the number of marriages, right?
Wait, so approximately 100,000 people got married in one year, in a state with an approximate population of 10 million?
Yeah. Marriage is totally dead.
I mean, I realize that’s a tiny percentage of the population, but once you factor in the already-married, the engaged, the children, the elderly widows & widowers, the gays and lesbians (who can’t get married) and the MGTOWs (all five of ’em), it doesn’t seem like marriage is that unpopular, at least in Michigan.
Here’s the CDC quick fact sheet on marriage in the U.S, with links to more crunchy numbers:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm
No Shaenon, feminism is to blame for lobbying and having laws enacted that make a man seperate from his family. If a man is married at any time and it seems quite often give him the boot. Take a whole wack of his/their accumulated wealth and of course guess who gets “their” children? However daddy still gets whatever mommy and the courts deem apropriate in the way of visitation and of course child support, he always gets that.
In the case of children outside of marriage, why daddys options are even more limited. She can actually give their child away for adoption, simply make him pay with no visitation or just run off with their child.
Daddys got exactly two rights where children are concerned 1) pay support and maybe be allowed to visit his own children, 2) go to jail. Thats it. The monolithic block of feminism supports this.
Here we go again, NWOslave ignoring the hard-hitting questions. Sir, are you or aren’t you a fan of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy?
NWO, what do you make of the fact that marriages with children are the ones that tend to last longer (ie not end in divorce)? If women were really just trying to steal men’s babies, wouldn’t more marriages disolve once there were kids to steal and child support to obtain?
While I was in the Peace Corps, I often gave talks about American culture, and asked my students to compare it with their own. They were always absolutely *shocked* when I told them the average age a woman married in the US was 25. By 25, your ovaries have calcified inside your body!
Here are the stats on custodial parenting, according to the U.S. Census, for 2007:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p60-237.pdf
Translation: laws that no longer institutionalize a father’s role as petty tyrant of his family
This country is on it’s way to a 0% divorce rate that’ll go hand in hand with the marriage rate of 0%.
Sounds good to me. Why not?
Oh lord. So I’m about to head off to grad school for my MA in the fall, and I fully intend to get my PhD as well. I do not want a family until I can hold a PhD in my trembling geeky hands. And most people seem to get that. Most. This does not apply to the people, who, upon hearing that I’m about to relocate for school, ask me what my boyfriend thinks about it.
It’s not his education. I care about his opinion but when it comes to my own decisions his opinions are secondary to my own. He’s ok with that, I’m ok with that, why is that so difficult to understand?
Interestingly, my Christian fundamentalist parents think this is a fabulous decision on my part and my boyfriend’s Mormon mother and stepfather are the ones who wish he had three kids by now.
Interesting figure in the link, Lady Victoria, that shows that the percent of custodial mothers has decreased over the last 14 years, whereas the percent of custodial fathers has stayed around the same. At least for the last 15 years or so, feminism has been slacking apparently.
crap, I’m really bad at reading figures… that’s number of custodial parents classified as below the poverty level.. =_= I’m gonna stop looking at numbers now.
“Hahahahaahahahahahah. Ahahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!!,” femalespectator laughs bitterly. After spending years in grad school where the undergrad women were dealing with the whole “ring by spring” expectation (ladies, you absolutely MUST receive an engagement ring by the spring semester of your senior year or there is something WRONG with you) and the grad women were wandering around bitter that all the grad men were only interested in undergrads I now work in a country where people’s conversational topic of choice for every working woman is: “So, how old are you? Do you have a husband? Do you have children? Do you cook for your husband?” These are *routine* questions that everyone asks you. Random strangers want to know the age of *every* woman. And if you are not married and are over 21 there is something WRONG with you. Dear God, will it never end with the obnoxious, intrusive questions.
–end of rant by femalespectator (who fortunately has a salary that makes up for putting up with this shit. And likes not having to share her personal space.Yay financial independence!)
Also, NWO, what do you make of the fact that marriages with children are the ones that tend to last longer? I’m pretty much gonna pester you with this question every time you show up until you answer it, sooo… Better now than annoying? 😛
Regarding the fathers’ rights-soon SCOTUS will be issuing an opinion on due process rights for fathers. This is huge and awesome and I hope they rule the way I think they should-have better information for parents (still majority of fathers) for when they have support hearings.
However, NWOaf’s assertion that men have two rights and that is all ignores the vast amount of data already provided to him by everyone on this board.
hey, if binary logic is good enough for a two year old….
Some highlights of the report:
* 48.% of black children live in single-parent homes – a number which, while high, falls significantly short of the 90% often claimed by Slavey.
* Mothers form 82.6% of custodial parents, while fathers are the custodial parent in 17.4% of cases. This is obviously not equal, but my Google-fu has failed me when it comes to who assumes the role of primary caregiver in the children’s lives. Here’s an article in the Washington Post about stay at home dads (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/16/AR2007061601289.html), which are estimated to be 2.7% of stay at home parents, though the article says this number might be quite higher, perhaps as many as 1 in 5. So it seems that primary custody is actually quite equitable.
* 57% of custodial mothers and 40% of custodial fathers were awarded child support. 47.1% of mothers who were awarded support received the full amount, 76.6% of custodial mothers received at least some child support (so 33.3% of custodial mothers received no child support at all). The percentage of custodial fathers receiving support is about two percentage points lower (74% received some form of child support, 45% received the full amount).
* 12.9% of custodial fathers exist below the poverty line, as compared to 27% of custodial mothers. 81.3% of custodial parents had some kind of work for the year, but only 58.3% had a full time, year-round job. For parents below the poverty line, only 56.8% of custodial parents worked, and only 17.7% had a full time, year round job. This is an increase in working parents from previous years.
* Older, well-educated parents were more likely to pay full child support than younger and less educated parents.
* 81.7% of non-custodial parents obligated to pay child support had some kind of joint custody or legal visitation awarded. 65.4% of non-custodial parents who were not ordered to pay child support had some kind of joint custody or visitation – so it looks like paying child support is actually a better way to ensure visitation.
There are more stats, but I suspect typing this up was just a waste of time, given that Slavey’s superpower appears to be the ability to ignore things he doesn’t like or that contradict him.
@femalespectator: “Ring by spring” was definitely a thing at my undergrad (Christian) college. It bordered on obsession. As an unmarried graduate student, I am in the minority among my college friends.
kirby: The age for women is likely to remain lower for lots of reasons that are going to be hard to change (people like NWO and EWME are part of the reason).
Kids are the real reason. A woman who wants kids (and who cares about being married) is more likely to settle down sooner. Regardless she has an upper range in which she, sort of, has to marry.
My fiancée is younger than I am. I want kids, which means I am looking at needing to find younger partners if that’s going to happen. Both my present fiancée, and my former one, are about 12 years my junior. I was much younger the first time (and we were together for a decade), so when I marry (and had we married) the relative gap would be incorporated into the data.
[ /rule on slave ]
NWO. The divorce rate is independent of the marriage rate. If 100 couples marry, and 50 get divorced, that’s a fifty percent rate. If 1000 couples marry, and 200 get divorced, that’s a 20 percent rate of divorce, but 200 percent increase in divorces.
More math, less innumeracy might help ya (we’ve already determined that literature isn’t your forte; and there are some serious questions about your reading comprehension… but keep on trying, someday you too might be as useful as a stopped clock)
[ rule on slave ]
Marriage…lol My grampa married my nana when she was in her early twenties. That was in the early sixties and they had two children. Guess what? They divorced! My nana never had a stable long term relationship again, and she was all the more happy for it. One of the men she did hook up with was abusive to his children whose mother had died from cancer. So when she and their father split, the kids (my stepaunt and stepuncles) chose to live with her! Not only that, but when her biological son proved to be a useless father, she cared for my brother and I too! Best woman I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. As for my grampa? He met my stepgrandmother, who had already been married once, unhappily. They partnered, chose to NOT get married or have children, and guess what? They’ve been together for over thirty years! And they’re STILL in love! Plus, they’re awesome.
So yeah, marriage. Without it , society will fail. Totally. /sarcasm
Another day, another spectacular fail by Slavey. Let’s give him big hand, folks!
Now, Slavey, tell us: Sarah Palin–great presidential candidate or greatest presidential candidate?
Word to Texas being a whole ‘nother place when it comes to women marrying young. I know a few women who got or are getting married right out of college, and to make it even weirder, they all seem to have great big Disney Princess ideas about weddings, but very little cognizance of what marriage is actually about. One actually bought her dress before the guy asked her.
Makes me very glad I got married at 38. I saw my parents marriage–and as egalitarian as it is–it’s still a LOT of fucking work.
Slavey is not one to let facts get in the way.
People have been wringing their hands over divorce rates and the subsequent collapse of western civilization for a few decades now, and it hasn’t happened yet. I suppose there’s always a first time.
“Humans, you talk and you talk but you have no grumba!”
He talks and he talks..
so NWO, tell us what the future will be like when marriage rates reach 0% as you claim… first off, about when will they? Why? How are you so certain?
And when they do, what will the result be? 😮
You say things will happen but you’re kinda unclear about why it’s bad.
What WILL the feminist future look like? xD Why are you so fearful of it? Why should WE be fearful of it? And once you convince us why we should fear it, as you do, what can we do about it? :3
Less talk. More Grumba!