This has nothing to do with the post. I just thought it was adorable.
This whole “mocking misogyny” thing? Apparently we’re doing it all wrong. Over on Reddit’s Men’s Rights Subreddit, jmnzz has helpfully explained what misogyny is, and what it isn’t.
Misogyny: The hatred of women
Not misogyny: Bad taste jokes about rape/abuse/etc. Logic. Counterarguments. Disagreements. Harsh language. Saying cunt. Saying bitch. Calling women names. Being pro-life. Calling every woman who accuses a man of rape a liar.
Why are none of these things misogyny? Because you do not have to hate women to do any or all of these things. You might, but not everyone who does them hate women.
Seriously. What on earth is misogynist about calling all the fucking cunts who accuse men of rape of being goddamn lying bitches? When guys call women lying whores, they do it out of love.
But hey, in all seriousness, I have to give Maggie props here for actually raising the issue of misogyny in r/mensrights.
NOTE: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN …..
Cassandra: I’m pretty sure My Immortal is banned under some provision of the Geneva Convention. If it isn’t, it should be, that’s some really, really awful writing.
Meller: Saying that someone said something… for the sake of argument, let’s say… asshat-ish… pointing out that they said something asshat-ish is not the same as calling them an asshat. Saying, ‘Hey, it’s kind of misogynistic to call me a bitch’ =/= saying, ‘Hey, you called me a bitch, you’re a horrible misogynist all the time and I hate you!’
Raincitygirl: My Immortal is popularly considered the worst fanfiction ever written. It’s so horrible that I refuse to allow my browser anywhere near it for fear it’s horribleness will contaminate my writing. Mere mention of it reminds me to back up my writing to a thumb drive and bless it to remove any taint. It’s really freaking awful.
MrB points out that there is some hope that it was horrible on purpose. One can hope. But make sure your Sanity pool is high enough that you can risk the roll before you hunt it up.
Actually, you know, maybe we should just start responding to all of Brandon’s attempts to go “yeah well I must be right about everything because I have sex with Ashley!” with links to Weeping Cock. It seems fitting.
Not to discount that writing that bad exists, but My Immortal has the scent of parody, yes.
You know what’s the most awesome thing in the world? Someone posting over and over again to announce that they don’t have time to post anything meaningful.
I think jmnzz is right. If you call every woman who accuses a man of rape a liar, you could be a misogynist, a troll, a misanthrope or maybe even have some sort of compulsion. What it is not is distinguishable from actual misogyny.
So. Take yer pick.
<blockquote.@hellkell: Yes, depending on the situation. I will call her “my dirty little slut/whore” when in bed, but…2) she knows that I respect her
Almost like those words imply disrespect!
Almost like you know those words imply disrespect!
But you see, Ashley really is a “dirty little slut/whore”, and other women really are lying bitches. He’s just being accurate!
Also, pillows don’t get insulted when you call them slurs.
“It’s not hatred unless someone actually full-on states that they hate members of a certain group” is like the bigot’s equivalent of the older sibling who holds a finger half an inch from your face and says “you can’t get mad because I’m not touching you!”
I like how he tells us he calls her this stuff in bed, as if telling a bunch of strangers on the web about their sex habits isn’t slightly disrespectful in and of itself.
Unless she’s given full consent for him to air their sex lives to strangers, which in BrandonWorld, she probably has. “Ashley likes it!”
factfinder seems to have discovered this “fact” where he finds all of his “facts”-his ass.
Ah, dismissing prejudice and bigotry as “fake” whenever one is called out on it, how very original.
Let me ask this then, factfinder, if I said that I thought that no men were ever raped and any man who claims to have been raped is a liar, and that men (and only men) should be forced to donate kidneys upon demand without consent, insult men by saying or strongly implying “you have a penis, therefore you are filthy, incompetant, and inferior”, what would you then assume about my feelings towards men?
Rutee, I have posted your writing. Take that as you will.
You posted a heavily edited version without linking to the source at all.
I’ll take that as “I can’t meaningfully respond to a single point you’ve made, Rutee, but I can’t admit this out loud.”
I do want to help people; I don’t want to help you. I’ve seen your jackassery before, and you are not the intended beneficiary of my words. I have no reason to think you’ll learn. When I’m mocking you, I’m not trying to help you; I’m educating everyone else at your expense. Why should I take it upon myself to teach an asshole like you how to be a decent human being? What makes you think I owe that to you?
And that’s the problem we have with feminism – it is a zero-sum game. All your “progress” has to come at the expense of someone else. If it’s unfair to the twits who disagree with you, they are the “assholes” and deserve it anyway.
It is NOT a zero-sum game, unless you are a practitioner of NWO math. You can think that if you want, but you’re wrong and it makes you look simple-minded.
I know! Voting, the freedom to work and have possessions of your own, bodily integrity, all horrible things that feminism has wrought on society! All at the expense of… oh wait, no one!
No, actually, not all progress comes at the expense of someone else. The gains of the civil rights movement, of the suffragettes, of LGBT, have not come at the expense of the majority. The rights of women do not, and have not, required rights lost by men. There are plenty of people who *do* educate assholes, and who do not use mockery as a tool in their social justice arsenal.
I am not one of those people. You do not deserve to be treated respectfully, and I, personally, do not possess the patience to treat your half-assed apologies for misogynistic beliefs and practices with respect even if we were in a bizarro universe where we did. You have said the stripping of bodily autonomy from women is merely some sort of political debate, and behaved as though these issues do not affect actual women. You have offered the laziest possible defenses of this bullshit, and you have not even engaged with the most cursory of defenses. You are a capering monkey, and I fully intend to make that clear to everyone else. This is only a loss to you, such as it is; this is not a loss to men, and it is not evidence of a ‘zero sum game’. It is evidence only that fools should not be suffered, and that you are a fool.
The conservative party represents about 50% of the US (maybe a bit less), and you have made it very clear that for their beliefs they should be mocked and reeducated as well as denied any form of representation because they want to “strip women of their bodily autonomy.” I am pro-choice and I can see where these people are coming from and at least comprehend the reasoning behind their arguments. I don’t hide behind some paradigm or dogma and parrot, “you disagree with what this book says, you are stupid.” Like I said, you are as bad as some religious fanatics. I think you are the one who needs an education, because you are the own who thinks you are above any form of evaluation or judgement.
Bostonian, I notice all of those things happened about 100 years ago. The feminism now is not the same as the feminism then – in fact, most political ideologies and parties are almost unrecognizable now in comparison to their inception.
Most MRA’s aren’t like Jay Hammers who want to execute dissidents and form a “new patriarchy,” just as most feminists are not like Biting Beaver who think that their sons should have been aborted for masturbating.
With you so far
Not if this is a reference to one of those looney conspiracy theories of black helicopters and forced education camps. But you should fucking know better than to say the stupid shit you have.
wat?
Oh yeah, I really believe this isn’t a concern troll. You’ve done such a great job presenting arguments here. And you haven’t asked ridiculously stupid questions you should know the answer to if you’re actually pro-choice already.
You only hide your goals and affiliation, and repeat blatantly stupid, long-refuted arguments that could be construed as dogma if I were interested in cheap shots.
Believe what you wish. It changes nothing about the weakness of your arguments, and your inability to use the logic you so championed before.
You have even less idea of what you’re talking about than usual.
Where exactly, you simpleton, did Rutee suggest, state, or claim that conservatives should be denied representation? You’re trying rather unsuccessfully to move the goalposts.
As far as mocking goes, have you seen the header of the site? Allow me to introduce you in case you forgot where you were.
Bodily integrity is less than a generation ago, you ahistorical lackwit.
Yeah, this isn’t actually proof of your claim that feminism is now zero sum. If anything, it is even less so now, as it’s slowly, agonizingly slowly, getting better with other -isms.
Most MRAs are actively working to give abusers access to their victims. They harass shelter workers and rail against age of consent laws. They call all women liars and whores.
Feminists are still working on the whole bodily integrity thing, with the “personhood” ammendments being brought forward. Feminists are still working on helping abuse and rape victims find justice.
There are no moderate MRAs. They are all in the Abuser’s Lobby.
Feminism still stands on the concept of women being people.
Okay, so the entire conservative party, about 45-50% of the population, should be mocked for their beliefs and are stupid for their political affiliation. It’s good that I’ve gotten that out of you.
So it turns out your form of feminism is not so much for the betterment of everyone after all, and seems to be zero-sum in that it hurts anyone who questions it.
Feminism still stands on the concept of women being people.
They don’t seem to think that I am a person.
I do want to help people; I don’t want to help you.
I’d rather just acknowledge that women are, in fact, people and give the whole feminism dogma a miss.
If they’re all as dense and dim as you, yes, they deserve the mocking!!! I’m sure as hell not taking you seriously.
Again, do you know where you are?
Thinking you are a person is not the same as agreeing with you. You, in particular, see women as vessels for fetuses so, you do not think of women as people at all. I do not agree with that.
My daughters are people.
Mocking people = denying their right to exist?
Clearly you are new to the Internet. And possibly the planet.
Again, do you know where you are?
A place where a large number of people are readily dismissed as “dim and dense” for questioning a dogma. So… a hate rally?
You, in particular, see women as vessels for fetuses so, you do not think of women as people at all.
I’m not even going to address that libelous claim. If you sincerely believe that and do not say it just to bait, then I will play your game and say that you are a programmed ideologue and not worth my time.
Please note that the troll does not know what libel means.
You came here concern trolling and pretending to care about being prochoice, but use antichoice talking points. Also, I have actually read the blog linked at your signature. The programmed ideologue is you.
Why are you here?
We’re pretty much just dismissing you as being dim and dense.
If 50% is the proportion of the population whose combined employment of calculated ignorance and dishonesty rises to the standard of “asshole”, then so be it. 50% of the population is the percentage of the population that is stupid and worthy of mockery.
That said — don’t flatter yourself, kid. Many people calling themselves “conservatives” are better than that.
Ah, Cassandra, I see where you’re going here. Now begins the ritual of branding the naysayer as a “troll” for having the gall to question authority. Like I said, you are as bad as some religious fanatics, and trying to actually exchange ideas and theories is just as productive. I have the integrity to admit that I am more imbuing quotations and excerpts than anything else, but so long as you bait me I will play your game.
You think that we’re just now noticing that you’re a troll? Wow, reading comprehension must not be your strong point.
To be fair, this one chose the correct defamation offense; that’s well above and beyond what the trolls usually manage.
Idiots are still people.
Could you in fact actually do this, instead of keep pretending that anti-abortion is anything but an attempt to harm women?
You know, to actually be zero sum, making fun of you would have to be equally as bad as you stripping me of my right to bodily autonomy, my right to a fair wage, my right to enter the career of my choice without gender policing bullshit, my right to have sex with whom I choose…
Would you rather concede this point, or fall on your sword here? Because I sincerely doubt you can make this argument sound convincing.
Yes, please take our words to your super illuminating site in hopes of proving we’re a hate group or some such nonsense. I’m sure your commentariat will love it. What’s that, you don’t have one, except someone who completely handed you your ass in one thread? Huh.
You are a classic troll. You came here with zero intention of exchanging ideas and theories, peddle that bullshit somewhere else. While you’re at it, look up what libel means.
The lurkers support him! XD
In emails!
She’s going to repost our comments on another site? As in, just like blogs do all the time?
Well I for one feel chastened.
I always forget about the silent lurking majority. Damn! XD
Oh, for fucksake FactFinder. What you’re trying to say is that feminists want to win rights at the expense of conservatives, because if we legalize abortion, some people who desperately want abortion banned are going to lose out, right? That’s your idea of a zero-sum game?
Okay.
In the USA in the 1950s and 60s, I’m guessing the conservative-progressive split was still roughly fifty-fifty. Conservatives at that time were strongly in favour of segregation. The black civil rights movement was strongly opposed to segregation. Progressives and black civil rights activists accused segregationists of racism, and of thinking of blacks as second-class citizens – were they just hateful ideologues trying to silence their opponents through cruel mocking? When segregation finally ended, was it a zero-sum game in the sense that black people gained the right to mix with whites at the expense of conservatives’ right to go to a black-free cafe or drycleaner?
I’m not a fan of comparing oppressions, but surely it doesn’t take a genius to recognise that there is a difference between being mocked etc for how you were born (female, black, gay etc) and being mocked for the choices you make and the way you treat others (including which laws you try to force on them).
Oh, and factfinder, if your clueless ass finds its way back here, you have still not managed to respond to my arguments against you. Which should be easy if you’re actually the champion of logic and analysis you claimed yourself to be.
You poor things! Why the bad old misogyny you have to live with must be overwhelming! Why I remember a while ago how ya’ll were complaining that Valerie Solanas wasn’t what feminism was all about, and she was just a meanie. And not all feminists are a monlithic block. And women are loving, truthful, caring and just all good things wrapped up in an angelic package.
Oh how prevelant misogyny is indoctrinated into society. How bad I feel for you. Luckily, once again, Sweden, the feminist utopia is going to rectify the situation. It’ seems the SCUM manifesto is going to be a play! Huzzah for feminism!
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fturteatern.se%2Fscum-manifestet-skolforestallning%2F
Well it seems the vagina monologues were not enough. I do believe that play promoted rape and pedophelia of a young girl by an older woman. Wasn’t it described as a, “good rape?” Although feminists fully support the play which they call satire. Be that as it may, we now have the SCUM monologues as a school play. SCUM meaning something along the lines of society for cutting up men.
Why it hasn’t even been shown yet and it’s alreadt being touted as something special.
Here’s an exerpt.
“We think the text is funny, sharp, provocative, imaginative and liberating. It is a reaction to centuries of oppression of women.”
Funny! Sharp! Provocative! Imaginative! Annnnnnnnd Liberating!!!
Centuries of oppression of women is apparently a 100% pure fact. And let’s just call it like it is, if it’s a fact women were oppressed. There’s only one group left that could possibly be their oppressors. If you guessed men. You’re right!!!
Oh just read the write-up, it’s so progressive I have no doubt every leftist will want every school to have mandatory shows for children of all ages. I just get goosebumps thinking about all the girl goodness. And I especially adore the final sentence of the write up.
“Welcome to a provocative and loving imagination!”
Now color me crazy but…..I’m guessing this amount of hatred, just slathered all over men by women will produce a somewhat negative response. Will women continue down this road? Are women so easily fooled as to willingly accept and support the hatred of men indoctrinated by the State? Because it is a State school play. Or do women actually desire and relish hatred of men?
Are women loving towards men? Caring? Kind? Sympathetic? Gentle? Women, “say” they are, yet what are your actions? This plays reception by women, as well all the laws you either promote or deny are vile, can have only one outcome. Vengence. And mens vengence towards women, who claim to be all those fine things towards men while being the opposite, will be for lack of a better word, magnificent.
It’s time to step up to the plate ladies. All MSM promotes women, all charities promote women, every corporation promotes women, all education promotes women, every newscast has women promoting women, every State in the western world promotes women.
Will you dub the play as vile lies, or will you promote it as progressive and satire? I guess we’ll see.
MRAL
1. What exactly in the Vagina Monologues promoted rape and pedophilia? Cite your sources,
2. Have you ever even seen the play?
3. Show me proof that MSM promotes women, that corporations promote women, that education promotes women etc. Again cite academic and peer reviewed sources.
4. Have you never seen a woman that was “caring towards men”? If you haven’t I am guessing that’s a personal problem.