This whole “mocking misogyny” thing? Apparently we’re doing it all wrong. Over on Reddit’s Men’s Rights Subreddit, jmnzz has helpfully explained what misogyny is, and what it isn’t.
Misogyny: The hatred of women
Not misogyny: Bad taste jokes about rape/abuse/etc. Logic. Counterarguments. Disagreements. Harsh language. Saying cunt. Saying bitch. Calling women names. Being pro-life. Calling every woman who accuses a man of rape a liar.
Why are none of these things misogyny? Because you do not have to hate women to do any or all of these things. You might, but not everyone who does them hate women.
Seriously. What on earth is misogynist about calling all the fucking cunts who accuse men of rape of being goddamn lying bitches? When guys call women lying whores, they do it out of love.
But hey, in all seriousness, I have to give Maggie props here for actually raising the issue of misogyny in r/mensrights.
NOTE: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN …..
They already want robot wives. The important thing is they don’t develop artificial intelligence for their robots, or else the robots will head for the hills.
OMS, I just had a odd thought… what if all the robot wives turn out to be robot lesbians, and decide to leave the menz and move in with each other?!?!
David, There is a difference between “All women are cunts” and “X woman is a cunt”. The former is misogynistic while the latter isn’t. Just because you think one woman is a bitch, that doesn’t mean you think all women are bitches.
@bionicmommy: He didn’t grant himself the power to define misogyny…he is using the standard, approved definition of the word.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/misogyny#Noun
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny
So pretty much hatred, contempt or mistrust of women. Not woman or people but women as a group. So calling one woman a cunt does not make one a misogynist.
@katz, except, if you break down what anti-choicers ask for, their positions are almost always absolutely inconsitent with the notion of fetus as a person (actually, I would argue that they are totally inconsistent, because the logical outcome of that position is not prohibiting abortion either) and incredibly consistent with hating/wanting to control women’s sexuality.
To think taht a slang term for vagina is an insult requires contempt, hatred, or mistrust of women, you moron.
Oh, and just to head off this argument before it starts:
I don’t like the insult “Dick” either. It doesn’t reinforce a narrative that men are inferior, because no such narrative exists; therefore it is not as harmful. I still don’t like it, and don’t use it.
This is a viable theory, Brandon, and I suggest that you field-test it. Go to a heavily black neighborhood and start calling people the N-word. If they get upset, explain that you’re calling individual people the word, so it’s not racist.
Or go to a gay bar and start yelling “fag” and “dyke.” Explain that you’re not being homophobic because you’re calling individual people fags and dykes, which they deserve for being fags and dykes.
Do not return here until you can report back with your findings.
Thanks!
Indeed, inconsistency really is the only option–even as described by my friend, Phil Bryant is basically advocating passing the law and then acting contrary to it (fetuses are people, but it’s still OK to kill them in cases of rape).
Also…if 90% of the individual women one meets are disregarded as “cunts,” there is a key pattern developing.
Brandon, for one thing, using the word c*** as a way of belittling any woman is misoynistic. It’s a word meant to make women feel worthless and inferior to men. It treats a woman like her body parts are more important than her mind. I don’t care who the woman is directed toward; I don’t like it. I don’t like Sarah Palin or Ann Coulter, but I wouldn’t call either of them the c word.
Another thing that jmnzz said is
Honestly, I shouldn’t even have to explain why that’s misogynistic. Not all women are liars. Many women who say there were raped are telling the truth. Taking a default stance of “They’re all lying” only allows rapists to get away with rape. So I disagree with you Brandon. Jmnzz did give himself the power to define misogyny. He said he agreed with the textbook definition, but then turned around and said some vile, misogynistic bs wasn’t misogyny. Saying all female rape survivors are liars and calling women the c word is misogyny.
Also, “dick” is about 1% as offensive as “cunt.” Or less.
I’m imagining Brandon working for a female boss and calling her a ball-buster, and then saying “I never said women shouldn’t be in charge of men! It’s just this one particular boss happens to be a ball-buster! I don’t hate women!”
Indeed, inconsistency really is the only option–even as described by my friend, Phil Bryant is basically advocating passing the law and then acting contrary to it (fetuses are people, but it’s still OK to kill them in cases of rape).
Katz, fetuses (fetii?) also magically stop being people when a man doesn’t want to pay child support. In that case, some MRA’s actually advocate forced abortion. Which would suggest not only that fetuses aren’t people, but that women aren’t either.
Yes, Brandon, it does make you a misogynist, and if you’re too dense to get it that’s OK. I for one am tired of explaining shit to you.
@Shaenon: There is a difference between nigger and bitch/cunt/whore. For one, nigger is used to disparage someone for no other reason than their skin color. Calling one woman a bitch/cunt/whore is attacking/criticizing that individuals behavior. If I call a woman a bitch, that is attacking her behavior not something that she has no control over (like skin color).
The same is for using fag and dyke. Homosexuals can’t change that fact about them (well, unless your are a fundie christian).
So basically, there is a difference in attacking behavior vs inherit characteristics of someone.
@bionicmommy: Just because you feel worthless when someone calls you a cunt, that doesn’t mean that was the intention of the person who said that to you. They could have said it to piss you off, annoy you or any other reason. It isn’t always “I want this person to feel worthless”.
Brandon, you literally cannot be both as stupid as you pretend to be AND capable of working a keyboard. So either someone is helping you between adult diaper changes and wiping the drool off your chin, or you’re feigning ignorance in order to get a rise out of your betters.
No not really Brandon, gendered insults like those are attacking something she has no control over (her gender). Wait, why am I explaining this again? It won’t actually change his mind. Oh well.
I un-moderated some Mellerposts above. I’m taking him off moderation; he’s been behaving.
Oh, bullshit, Brandon. There are other ways to call out someone’s behavior without resorting to bitch/cunt/whore, unless you have a tiny, dull mind.
And that’s OK to you, isn’t Brandon? Do you really think a man call a woman a cunt just to “annoy” her? It’s to belittle and control.
But since this OK with you, when I call you an asshole, I’m just criticizing your behavior, not you as a person. Oh, no.
@Improbable Joe: Thanks for proving my point. By calling me stupid, you aren’t attacking something that I can not change but a characteristic that can be changed.
@Snowy: Ok so I can create a simple conversion chart so we remove the gender:
bitch = annoying, pushy, argumentative
cunt = a person you dislike
whore = an overly promiscuous person
This way we strip out any gendered words and focus solely on attacking the behavior
Brandon, in order for that chart to work, you’d have to overhaul the culture you don’t believe in.
@Hellkell: Ya pretty much. You can call me an asshole all you want. But it would be different if you attacked me for something that I couldn’t change (skin color, sexuality, eye color, etc…)
Maybe Joe doesn’t think your brand of stupid can be changed. You thinking it can assumes facts not in evidence.
Hah! Brandon, you are as dishonest as I described. Nice work, and now I’m done with you. Consider yourself shunned.
@hellkell: Joe only thinks I am stupid because he disagrees with my statement. So I don’t really take offense to it. Disagreements != stupidity.
Brandon, women can be called cunt/whore/bitches/sluts when they show too much skin or not enough, when they have tattoo or piercing, when they have too much sex or refuse themselves to too many men, when they’re too fat or too ugly (for the taste of the person insulting her) or when they say too loud something a man don’t like. The list goes on, the only common denominator is: being a woman.
None of these word describe a shameful action (or it is considered shameful only if a woman does it, like having sex). If you want to call a woman on her behavior, just do that, don’t refer to her genitals or prostitutes.
“Just because you feel worthless when someone calls you a cunt, that doesn’t mean that was the intention of the person who said that to you. ”
You haven’t read the “intent, it’s fucking magic” piece, have you? You should. Or if you don’t like reading, again, try to call a black person nigger and then explain that it’s not your fault zie is pissed, you meant that in a friendly way.