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anti-Semitism grooming literal nazis quiz TERFs transphobia

Who said it, Gender Crit or Nazi? Drag Queen Story Hour Edition

Pop quiz!

Some of the quotes below are from a discussion of Drag Queen Story Hour on the “GenderCritical” forum on Ovarit. The rest are from literal Nazis, either posting on Stormfront or on AltRight.com. Can you tell the difference?

I’m am so tired of this transgender, queer, pronoun , idiots with their stupid ideas. And yes they targeting the children and starting at the earliest age possible. It’s a putting a 2 part plan into perfection. Grooming children & indoctrination. … The word woman is being replaced with birthing person or birther because apparently only trans women are actually women.

TERF or Nazi?

[I]t’s a way to get a foothold to indoctrinate kids from an extremely young age by passing it off as a type of dress-up/clown/make-believe entertainment. It gets them used to the lingo and sexual suggestiveness from an early age. In other words, it’s a woke veneer for a type of grooming, being passed off as harmless. Has Jimmy Savile vibes. …

[W]ho benefits by exposing … children to an adult male, gay, subculture? … This is an adult-driven agenda and is not benign. There have already been cases of pedos doing this and cases of indecent exposure.

TERF or Nazi?

Like most aspects to the Trans Agenda, there are layers to it. There is the cold and calculated manipulation cooked up by some truly terrifying people with money to push their agenda, and the foot soldiers doing their bidding. Those powerful men want societal-wide grooming, all over the planet. Their goal is to get sexual access to kids, make a killing financially, and to push their transhumanist agenda.

TERF or Nazi?

Drag Queen Story Hour is child abuse, a psychological tactic to cause gender confusion and sexualize children, especially boys, from an early age. Parents who have already bought into the LGBT lobby’s deceptive slogans leave their children vulnerable to [slur] and pedophiles, not to mention putting them at risk for a lifetime of depression and mental illness.

TERF or Nazi?

People keep talking about pedos being the next “gender identity” in line to get normalized, but I think the current focus on integrating trans [slur] into society is basically the same thing. … all those [slur] either are pedophiles or are paving the way for pedo acceptance whether they accept it or not. …

We had a drag your kids to pride” event in Dallas; emphasis on drag and kids. … To what group of individuals would this event appeal to, realistically? The activities of which group would this willful exposure of children to sexual depravity legitimize?

TERF or Nazi?

Predatory grooming of children, being retconned as “inclusivity” and a “civil rights movement.” Same with all this intentional pushing of …Tumblr nonsense on the younger set. I used to try to be “tolerant” but it’s so in-your-face and deliberate now that I really can’t see it as anything else.

TERF or Nazi?

Scroll down for the answers!

.

.

.

.

Nazi, on Stormfront (link).

TERF (link)

TERF (link)

Nazi, on AltRight.com (link)

Nazi, on Stormfront (link)

TERF (link)

How’d you do?

I should point out that these don’t represent the entirety of the debates over drag queens on Stormfront or Ovarit. Virtually every comment on Stormfront (and not just the ones I quoted) is hateful and/or paranoid, and many of the comments go on to (for example) blame Jews for the very existence of drag queens and their alleged war against white people.

By contrast, not every comment on Ovarit is hateful and/or paranoid, and several of those in the discussion I quoted from were against drag queens not because they were allegedly grooming children but because the commenters in question, like a lot of other radical feminists, think that drag is misogynistic.

But the fact that there’s this much overlap in the rhetoric of the two groups is, I think, rather telling, and honestly a bit frightening.

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Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani

So, what these guys are saying is that a Drag King story hour would be acceptable for the children to attend without risk of being sexualized?

Xanthë
14 days ago

It seems I’m doing terrible these days, there was nothing in the six comments which shouted out ‘Nazi’ more than any of the others, so I selected T–T–T–T–T–T for a score of 3/6. Meh.

LouCPurr
LouCPurr
14 days ago

We need the ‘they’re the same picture’ meme here.

Seth S
Seth S
14 days ago

@redsilkphoenix

Speaking as a former drag king, most people don’t even know we exist.
And considering the current climate, maybe that’s a good thing.
There have been efforts to get Ru to include kings on Drag Race but he’s already made a number of misogynist, insensitive comments about kings so I’m not holding my breath. And like I said… maybe it’s for the best.

(*not all kings are women. Just as not all drag queens are men, either. There are even some AFAB folk who are queens, but again, they’re not part of the mainstream consciousness because they’re not allowed on Drag Race)

Full Metal Ox
14 days ago

@Seth S:

Speaking as a former drag king, most people don’t even know we exist.
And considering the current climate, maybe that’s a good thing.

I thought Berlin Babylon’s Psycho Nikoros—now that the show has run on U.S. Netflix—might have put the concept on the radar? Or is that still too niche?

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
13 days ago

I also scored a 3/6. I part because I didn’t expect neonazis to be ‘sympathetic’ towards mental illness. Oh, can highly recommend the Caelan Conrad 3-part video ‘inside a cult’ about the gendercrit movement. It’s a long one, even if you watch them separately, but well worth it.

KatInBoots
KatInBoots
13 days ago

I’m darkly fascinated that these commenters continue to harp on how children seeing drag queens, or knowing that they exist, is sexualizing to children. In what way, exactly? Have these individuals ever interacted with drag queens at these types of events? (No, of course not).

Young children do not know that dressing up in unusual costumes is sexualized unless you TELL them that it is (possibly they might know if the costume involves near nakedness, but only because nakedness is sexualized in our culture, and they might already have internalized that being naked in public is not done: they might still not connect it to anything sexual though. They’d be just as likely to simply find it funny because it’s unusual). I’m fairly certain that no sex is discussed at these drag queen story time events: certainly none that I’ve attended or heard about. These people are entertainers. Is Big Bird ALSO sexualizing young children by being an adult man dressed in a costume and performing for children?! smh

These people need a better understanding of what grooming children for sex looks like, as appalling as that is for me to write. It does not look like this. Good grief.

kamosa
kamosa
13 days ago

I think this has nothing to do with children and everything to do with adults that are uncomfortable and intolerant of any deviation from gender norms. The men project their own feelings of discomfort in finding a man in drag sexy or feminine (as drag queen’s often highlight the extremes of feminine stereotypes of dress and make up). It makes them feel more insecure in their masculinity, which they were already insecure about. So, the feel the need to protect children from any of the sexualized thoughts they are experiencing.

I knew about drag queens as a kid. I never found it sexualized. It always seemed like adults role playing and play acting to me, just like much of societies’ normalized gender roles. There are tons of comedies where people cross dress. Victor Victoria stands out in my mind along with tons of British humor.

Sophiab
Sophiab
13 days ago

Ok, I’m curious, what’s the argument about drag being misogynistic? I can sometimes see it can mock all things feminine, but more than general culture?

I gave a slight issue when something affects amab folks because misogyny, but we try to avoid talking about it as a woman’s issue when that is a key part of it (cough, abortion, cough), but like this is such a small linguistic issue, and I do realize trans folks have another fucking host of issues when accessing services designed for cis folks, so I’m not sure the full answer. That would be the tiniest part I could sorta see with their objections.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
13 days ago

@Seth S.:

There have been efforts to get Ru to include kings on Drag Race

Who or what is a Ru? Not really familiar with that whole scene …

but he’s already made a number of misogynist, insensitive comments about kings so I’m not holding my breath. And like I said… maybe it’s for the best. (*not all kings are women. Just as not all drag queens are men, either. There are even some AFAB folk who are queens,

How on Earth? Do you mean to say there are trans men in drag out there? I would have thought they would have about as much desire to do that as to go back into the closet and resume using their dead names … Or maybe nonbinary people? Which leads to an interesting thought: are nonbinary people ever not crossdressing? (Other than when they’re nude.) Pretty much any manner of dress not considered specifically feminine seems to be considered masculine. Though since that’s basically the default, maybe it’s more that clothing is either feminine or neuter … in which case what distinguishes a drag king from “just a woman wearing pants”?

As you can see, I have many questions.

@KatInBoots:

These people need a better understanding of what grooming children for sex looks like

Those people do not want a better understanding of what grooming children for sex looks like. They want a justification for hating the people they hate, and in many cases for doing violence to the people they want to do violence to. And the GOP’s recent rhetoric has furnished them with just such an excuse … which they will cling to, now, like a child does a safety blanket or a teddy bear. Try to pry them away from it and the resulting tantrum will likely be measurable on the Richter scale. There are none so blind as those who will not see …

@kamosa:

The men project their own feelings of discomfort in finding a man in drag sexy or feminine (as drag queen’s often highlight the extremes of feminine stereotypes of dress and make up).

This phenomenon is also a contributing factor here, and is quite widespread. It applies to any case of so-called “gay panic”; also “trans panic”. And even what I suppose could be called “cis panic”, in people with strongly internalized shame about any feelings of sexual attraction at all (or outside of the context of a marriage). Homophobic, transphobic, and strict religious upbringing will result in these hangups, and then in projected anger directed at whoever (usually inadvertently, save for situations involving a deliberate flirtation) triggered the hangup. In some cases, leading to violence. I’ve long suspected that something like this was the “start of darkness” for many serial killers.

Anyone who a) isn’t ace and b) was raised to feel shame at some subset of the spectrum of normal sexual attractions is susceptible to this, if the circumstances arise. Needless to say, it is b) that must be addressed by society, going forward. One sign of progress will be when no one feels the need to prefix anything with “No homo, but …” ever again.

@whoever:

The economic situation is becoming dire, in the world at large, in my town, and personally.

The world at large clearly faces circumstances strongly reminiscent of the mid-70s: an energy crisis, stagflation, and a looming realignment of the norms of international finance of the sort not seen since the collapse of Bretton-Woods, induced at least in part by the rise of China and in part by the weakening relevance of the petro-dollar system as the transition away from fossil fuels ramps up in earnest. Really, the only difference is that it was Russia rather than Saudi Arabia that triggered the energy crisis component this time.

My own town is showing signs of growing economic distress, no doubt brought on by a combination of the above and the lingering aftereffects of pandemic lockdowns. As one might expect given the latter, the restaurant and retail sectors are hardest-hit. Notably, the local KFC has yet to reopen its on-premises dining section, months after everywhere else did (and this has rendered it completely useless to myself and anyone else around here who doesn’t own a car); the local Harvey’s is quasi-business-as-usual but appears to be in decline, with glued-on patch modifications to some of the overhead menu panels and other such makeshift things combined with a short-staffing problem so severe that the last time I was there, the person taking my order at the cash register kept having to say “just a minute” and run off to do unrelated things, making the process of ordering a cheeseburger take easily 5x as long as typical.

It’s not just them — many of the restaurants have NOW HIRING signs out front. The end of town with the Harvey’s seems to be especially hard hit. The mall there, already in disrepair with 50% vacancies before the pandemic, appears to be kaput now, with plyboard and damage all over the place and locked doors in the middle of normal retail hours on a weeknight (paradoxically, with prominent signs in a couple of places reading “We’re open!”, belied by the locked doors). It’s been circling the drain since the Zellers anchoring one end of it moved away a decade or so ago, but the pandemic seems to have tipped it over the edge. The mall at the other end of town (now, it seems, our only mall) remains largely normal, so far as I know, and may even be benefiting from the loss of competition, but the businesses near the failed one look to be dominoes tilting to fall in turn.

It may not be coincidence that it is in this end of town that, a few days ago, my perambulations brought me face to face with a Nazi truck. No, it wasn’t proud enough of this to be emblazoned with swastikas; instead of that bullhorn it had the dogwhistle of a “freedom convoy” sticker on each side. Rumors are swirling that those fucklechucks are planning to besiege the capital again next month, despite the end of all of the COVID-related restrictions that purportedly motivated their opposition … seems that was a lie. Economic anxiety among white members of the petit bourgeoisie seems likelier the culprit. As in Nazi Germany, fasicsm seems likely to arise first among this group, plus the hard-core bigots (to the extent these even differ), before spreading to most whites who become sufficiently desperate for some party, any party that doesn’t support the status quo.

Personally, I’m facing continued threats on two fronts: economic (I still cannot seem to get OESP restarted — I’ve tried calling at all sorts of times during business hours on weekdays and all I ever get is voicemail) and COVID safety. We’re in a trough between waves right now, but probably nearing the end of it, and wouldn’t you know it but the web page I’ve been using to get up to date numbers on Ontario case counts and hospitalizations seems to have gone down. My efforts to find a replacement turned up one PDF file (less convenient than nice clean HTML) that had case counts, but no hospitalization data (a lagging, but more reliable indicator) and nothing else that seemed to work at all. Does anyone know of a good source for these numbers? At the very least I’d like to see net changes in cases, hospitalized cases, ICU cases, and deaths, and a direct active case count would be very nice. And before you suggest it, the Wikipedia page for Ontario hasn’t been updated in months for some reason.

There’s more. Bizarrely, the contact-tracing app on my phone has stopped working, apparently either yesterday or today (as I’ve been diligently checking it at least once a day since it was released, to see if it reported that I’d been exposed). I’ve no idea what to do about this at all, as it seems unlikely that there could be a viable third-party substitute, and I’d likely be courting malware if I tried to find one on my own.

So, now I can get virtually no information to guide decisions as to when it might be better to do optional/deferrable shopping or other public, indoor activities, and when it might be better to hold off on those and limit all shopping to immediate-needs stuff. I should go get a haircut and make a trip to Wal-Mart for some miscellaneous stuff (replacement headphones, new underwear and long pants for next fall, a new watch, etc.) in the next few days, when it’s still (relatively) safe … but now I’ve no idea how to correctly schedule the next such occasion, some months to a year hence, so as to minimize the risk to myself from COVID, and to whomever I might subsequently infect.

Last edited 13 days ago by Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
13 days ago

Behold my total lack of surprise, or sympathy, upon learning that Nazis who donated to Trump’s coup-attempt fund got ripped off:

https://www.alternet.org/2022/06/new-analysis-lays-out-possible-consequences-that-could-arise-for-trump-s-250-million-non-existent-election-defense-fund/

C.A. Collins
C.A. Collins
13 days ago

I scored 6/6, due to a combination of good guessing and the occasional concern for boys expressed by the Nazis expressing more concern for boy children.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
13 days ago

@kamosa: same here.

Snowberry
Snowberry
12 days ago

@Surplus to Requirements:

I can clear up a bit of confusion here: A Drag King is a caricature of masculinity in a similar way that a Drag Queen us a caricature of Femininity.

Also there are male Drag Kings and female Drag Queens. This basically a situation of a man impersonating a woman impersonating a man (DKs), or a woman impersonating a man impersonating a woman (DQs), which is known as “hyperdrag”. For reasons which I don’t particularly understand either, there are trans people who do hyperdrag as well as cis.

Shakespeare actually went one step further: Assuming that the role is being acted by a young man as was normal for those days, the character of Rosalind from As You Like It is a man (the actor) playing a woman (Rosalind) playing a man (Ganymede) playing a woman (the “fake” Rosalind), which would be akin to hyper-hyperdrag.

Perugga
Perugga
11 days ago

I am a fan of Drag Race, even though Ru (RuPaul, the host and still arguably the most wellknown drag queen in the western world) has many antiquated views about gender.
The queens are for the most part interesting and lovely people.
To my knowledge, there have been at least two AFAB queens on Drag Race: Gottmik, a trans man, on US season 13, and Victoria Scone, a cis lesbian, on UK season 3.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
11 days ago

@KatInBoots:

Young children do not know that dressing up in unusual costumes is sexualized unless you TELL them that it is

I’ve had another thought about this. Remember when someone recently pointed out that to privileged cishet whites, white = default and black = political, straight = default and gay = political, and so forth? Well, I suspect that for some cishet social conservatives (particularly religious prudes), gay = sexualized, crossdressing = sexualized, trans = sexualized, gender nonconforming = sexualized, and so on. (Which could even lead to the seemingly paradoxical situation of androgynous self-presentation = sexualized.)

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
11 days ago

@Surplus to Requirements:

Yes, the app got shut down.

From the CBC: Government shutting down COVID Alert app, sources say
Essentially, not enough people were actually using it for it to be as useful as it should have been, testing backlogs meant reports weren’t being followed up on in a timely manner either, and the higher transmissibility of Omicron made contact tracing nearly impossible anyway.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
10 days ago

Meanwhile, their advice is to “keep aware of local virus prevalence”, but I’m finding that increasingly difficult. Not only has the main Ontario stats page gone AWOL, but the one for my local region switched yesterday to giving only full-week statistics.

Best bet now would be if somewhere makes the raw wastewater data available directly; it doesn’t tell actual case counts but it’s not a lagging indicator and you ought to be able to see the waves and troughs and gauge their relative magnitudes. Does anyone know of one that isn’t locked behind “Javascript required”, registration, or pay barriers or buried in annoying pdf files?

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