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"proxy violence" advocacy of violence jordan peterson threats toxic masculinity

Let’s you and him fight: Jordan Peterson wants Joe Rogan to beat the crap out of Keith Olbermann

Jordan Peterson likes to fantasize about violence

Jordan Peterson, a tough guy in his own mind, wants to live in a world in which intellectual arguments can be resolved with fisticuffs. Yesterday on Twitter, he suggested that Joe Rogan, on whose podcast he’s made several appearances, should punch out former MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann for calling him a “dipshit.”

I like that he put Keith’ Olbermann’s first name in scare quotes, for some unknown reason. And that he snitch-tagged Rogan so that he’s be sure to see both Olbermann’s insult and Peterson’s suggestion of how best to deal with this impertinence.

This isn’t particularly surprising behavior from Peterson, who has a long history of publicly fantasizing about violence, usually with himself as the bringer of a fist to the face. You can see some examples in this Twitter thread, including my favorite one of all:

This is how 12-year-old boys think. It’s astonishing to me that Peterson is considered a role model for anybody. Clean your room, bucko — and clear you head of all this violence.

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Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
4 months ago

You sanctimonious prick. If you were in my room at the moment, I’d slap you happily.

I’ve been given to understand that real men punch other men. A slap is reserved for setting an errant woman straight.

Mrs. Obed Marsh
Mrs. Obed Marsh
3 months ago

I dunno about Rogan, but Keith Olbermann would body Jordy P. No question.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 months ago

Clearly a good example for the youth. /s

One would think that after suffering a coma from one’s own foolish choices would cause them to be humble and reflect. Guess not.

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
3 months ago

I’d love to see someone slap Peterson and watch him cry about it like a toddler

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 months ago

Peterson would probably whine about it forever and a day if he were merely milkshaked, à la fuckwit Farage, much less actually slapped*.

*I would certainly oppose the use of violence in such cases, right AFTER all use of violence against minorities and the vulnerable has stopped.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
3 months ago

Huh. This side of Peterson is genuinely new to me. Very far removed from his usual ‘composed dispenser of overly verbose diatribes of vague nonsense’. I wasn’t aware he could get even lower in my esteem, but he managed it. Congrats, I guess.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 months ago

@Battering Lamb

Same here. And I have to say those threats seem pretty rich from a skinny middle-aged guy who talks like Kermit the Frog.

Gerrysherry
Gerrysherry
3 months ago

I don’t condone violence but if they were wrestling Keith would be the face and Peterson the heel and Keith would beat him bloody with a chair

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 months ago

@Cyborgette

I would rather listen to Kermit the Frog than to Jordan Peterson. Besides, I bet JP can’t play the banjo.

Lkeke35
Lkeke35
3 months ago

I have noticed that the kind of men who adhere to the ideology of toxic masculinity love to talk and fantasize about committing acts of violence.

This is sort along the lines of that old Negro Spiritual song, Walk All Over God’s Heaven:
“..anybody talking ‘bout Heaven not goin’ there!”

Guys like that love to imagine fisticuffs, but they don’t ever seem to imagine that their victims also have hands, fist, and sometimes feet.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
3 months ago

Funnily enough, I read this particular academic paper just a day or two ago. It talks specifically about fascists, but seems likely to be more broadly applicable to toxic masculinity in general and definitely to incels:

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0760/9/7/120/htm

(Not hugely long, and either not paywalled or the Bypass Paywalls Firefox extension works on it.)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I kind of miss the days when he was in the meat and benzos coma.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
3 months ago

@WWTH: So do I.

Rogan is a fake tough guy, and Olbermann isn’t only a big guy, he’s got smarts. My money’s on Keith. But Rogan DGAF what Keith says about him, I’m sure.

Of course, both of them, most men, many women and some children could take down Peterson, so that’s why he’s always only threatening violence to people who are far away. He couldn’t even overcome tiny pills and literal dead meat.

occasional reader
occasional reader
3 months ago

> Lkeke35 & Surplus to Requirements
Yeah, the problem being that more and more have no shame to act, as the various agressions during Trump mandate had shown.

And the same occurs in France too. Last year, someone slapped the president, and with antivaxs and all, violence made a step up, against who they feel are wrong-doers (mainly elected persons and journalists, currently) : houses tagged, cars burnt, death threats…
This last week-end, journalists covering an anti-pass demo have been molested by demonstrators from the far-right movement called “Les Patriotes” (article in french, sorry).
Because of course. When, in the same way that Trump was doing (and still do, i believe), our far-right leaders (Zemmour and Le Pen) call the media which did not agree with them the “merdia” (portmanteau between “merde” and “media”), you can expect their base to act this way to journalists.
There is a song we had which could represent what it is becoming, it is “Les loups sont entrés dans Paris” from Serge Regianni. And currently, the wolves are in, alas.

Have a nice day.

LollyPop
LollyPop
3 months ago

@Lkeke

“I have noticed that the kind of men who adhere to the ideology of toxic masculinity love to talk and fantasize about committing acts of violence.”

TOTALLY agree. Growing up somewhere that (was) considered fairly rough, I think cis men in reality generally fall into three categories violence wise:

The Real Bastards: Like the 2.5% of men who are horrible and bullying, and actually willing to commit extreme violence in cold blood (and can whip up others). The type who’ll jump on someone’s head when they are already floored. They will look for fights, and you can feel the temperature drop when they enter a room.

The Handy But Quiet Types: I’d say about 7.5% are quietly confident in their abilities to hold their own and could actually follow through. They don’t set out to have a fight but similarly won’t be bullied. They actually understand how dangerous The Real Bastards are.

Everyone Else: The 90% of men who are just normal guys, ranging from your gentle pacifists to blowhards like Peterson who like to brag they could smash someone’s head in and fantasise about dominating people physically. They MAY have a pop at someone clearly weaker than them, but in a real fight they have no clue what to do, massively overestimate the usefulness of the four martial arts lessons they had six years ago, or find they actually don’t want to hurt someone else. This is why so many pub fights end with men just circling each other uncertainly before they can bow out gracefully to their friends saying “it’s not worth it mate”.

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
3 months ago

I vaguely recall Peterson making some comment along the lines of how he didn’t like arguing with women because he wasn’t allowed to hit them.

He also has repeatedly claimed that the Canadian government will have to kill him to get him to comply with some imagined draconian policy.

So I think violent rhetoric is a part of his brand.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 months ago

@Lollypop

TBH I feel like I’ve met a lot of “ordinary guys” (mostly veterans) who could kick someone’s ass in a fight, but had no idea how to deal with one of their friends sexually harassing someone.

I get that about Real Bastards though. It’s a problem I’ve run into in a lot of leftist spaces, that most people (and especially most cis men) have no concept of how manipulative and dangerous a truly evil person can be. It’s not just “wouldn’t hesitate to hit a woman or child”. It’s a willingness to use all available tools – gossip, stalking, white tears, anything that works – and an ability to lie without hesitation, guilt, and other usual tells. Such people can make almost anything sound convincing and honest, and IME most communities are wholly unprepared to deal with it.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
3 months ago

If I understand correctly, Lollypop listed types of men who are a) smart, violent bullies, b) smart and violent but not bullies and c) “ordinary” men who aren’t particularly violent, though they may be smart or bullies or both.

I’m not an expert on this in any way, but I’d expect there are also violent men who aren’t particularly smart, who may or may not be bullies. The sort who also “take no bullying” and get easily violent when offended, and perhaps try to pick up fights, but not in a really manipulative way?

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
3 months ago

I my previous comment I said I’m not remotely an expert on male violence, because I’ve been extremely sheltered, as well as personally non-violent, non-confrontational and socially awkward. For example I’ve hardly ever been to a booze bar, much less witnessed a bar fight. The usual stereotype here in Finland is that tired-drunken men start fights late at night when they’re wandering home from bars and there’s not enough taxis for everyone. Those must be good provocation opportunities for someone who picks up fights for sport, but it’s far removed from my life.

One time years I was provoked in broad daylight, while I was standing at a bus stop next to some middle-aged ladies. The guy who did it was somewhat manipulative and didn’t appear to be under the influence of anything. He obviously picked me over the ladies, because young men are usually the easiest to provoke, and it wouldn’t look like he was the aggressor, or fighting someone smaller than himself.

As noted above, this is the sort of phenomenon that most people (esp. sheltered, socially awkward cis men like me) have difficulty understanding. It took me a while to even realize what was happening, as I very much didn’t expect that kind of shit to happen to me. When it finally dawned to me, I started briskly walking to the nearby metro station, because I wanted to get away from him but also wanted to get home without too much detour. The guy could’ve followed me and cornered me at the station, but that obviously didn’t occur to me then because I don’t normally need to think about personal security matters. He did not follow me, possibly only because there witnesses (and presumably CCTV) around.

epitome of incomprehensibility

“But behind safe walls and from a distance, you’re a real killer.” Oh, come on. Hypocrisy, much?

@occasional reader – Those kind of threats must be scary for journalists. I mean, politicians too, but politicians are more likely to have security guards and such.

“Merdia” reminds me of a mildly funny story, though: when I was a kid, my mom would swear in French when she was frustrated (we’re Quebec anglophones). Instead of going “oh shit” she’d say “merde”…which I heard as “mayor”, so I kept wondering why mayors were such a bad thing 🙂

Last thing – I can’t follow the news link. I see it underlined, but it doesn’t go anywhere, while the link in Surplus’s comment works for me (the one going to the sociolinguistics study, which reminds me I have stuff to do for class).

Allandrel
Allandrel
3 months ago

It’s amazing how much guys like this sound like that one kid everyone went to middle school with – you know, the one who claims that his dad is in Black Ops or the like, that he himself a whatever-degree black belt (often in “ninjutsu”) at age thirteen, that he “had to register (his) hands as deadly weapons,” and so on.

And here these guys are, fully grown adults, acting no different.

Lollypop
Lollypop
3 months ago

@Cyborgette

Ah yeah definitely, I get that people like that have (often tragic) reasons why they’ve ended up how they are, but they are a danger to the wellbeing of everyone around them.

@Lumipuna

Agree there’s definitely subtypes and not all are smart – I’m no expert either, just observations off the top of my head from seeing fights and what men have told me. I remember watching a military history thing once too which said in WW2 when men didn’t have commanding officers about, if a group of allies encountered a group of Germans they’d often just jeer or throw stones, despite carrying guns. And in the Napealonic wars it was a real problem to the generals that men deliberately shot above people’s heads rather than as they’d been trained. It’s what has made me think that human trend towards compassion and cooperation rather than violence, but unfortunately a very structurely violent society wants to pretend otherwise.

Your experience with that guy sounds horrible. It sounds like you kept your head though!

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
3 months ago

Since we’re talking about him, how often do lobsters get into pointless fights on behalf of nothing?

tim gueguen
3 months ago

@SpecialFFrog Jordan Peterson’s rise to fame was due to his opposition to Canadian Bill C16. The bill added gender identity and gender orientation to the Canadian Human Rights Act and Criminal Code. Peterson claimed he would be sent to jail for not using someone’s desired choice of pronouns, because it would be considered hate speech, which was nonsense.

I’ve never really understood how this turned Peterson in an international celebrity. It’s surprising it even turned him into a Canadian celeb. Before 2015 he was unknown to most Canadians outside Ontario, and not exactly famous there.

occasional reader
occasional reader
3 months ago

Hello.

> epitome of incomprehensibility
Ah, my bad. There are no more the buttons to put balises, and i have put src rather than href.
The article from saturday
The song “Les loups sont entrés dans Paris” from Serge Regianni
Is it working ?
And about the protection for elected people, it is only for the government and the president. Most of elected persons do not have it. Even if it would made a lot of employment, you can hardly provide a bodygard to all the mayors of the country, or even to the senators and the representants.

Have a nice day.

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