open thread trump

Happy Indictment Day! Open thread

Lock him up!

By David Futrelle

Three, three indictments in one! Three former Trump campaign officials are in the hot seat today. Former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort is the big name on the list (along with his pal Rick Gates), for such fun things as conspiracy against the U.S. and money laundering. But even more intriguing is the GUILTY PLEA of relatively unknown Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos, whom Mueller has presumably flipped, who seems to have been doing some active COLLUDING WITH THE RUSSIANS.

So here’s an open thread to discuss the news and any other indictment fun that transpires today.

NOTE: Sorry to have gone missing for so long. I’m still dealing with a combo of health issues that have made it very difficult to work. Thanks again for your patience and support.

579 replies on “Happy Indictment Day! Open thread”

I’m used to running into strategic spelling/grammar nit pickers, and I appreciate the spell check, it’s always better to anticipate it. I’ve even seen people preemptively assume that I will just dismiss them via the same impulse when breaking into a whine (one of my dad’s friends).

Spooky sleeps a lot, and eats a lot by my measure. I try to engage him as much as I can to get him rehabilitating. My job made this kind of thing more sensible even though I was just a tech at a rehabilitation hospital.

He seems happy when I give him attention, he will not join us downstairs yet. I’m mulling over keeping the door open to the rest of the house.

Danica Roem won the Virginia Delegates 13th District seat. (I cried with happiness with this one.)

Ralph Northam won Virginia’s Governorship.

Phil Murphy, New Jerseys Governorship.

I feel a bit hopeful, for the first time in a while.

About the creepers…

Yeah, that was weird. I sent an email to the store’s offices. Just generally described the guy and that he was clearly watching me and following me. By my description I’m sure they can tell if it was an employee or not.

Yes I think I gave a very specific description and they can keep an eye out for the guy at the least.

I have a few other thoughts here, sigh, why me? I have harassment on the mind from all these news stories coming out. And trust, I have been harassed plenty. And while I am fairly attractive, I am certainly not a super model. Why me?

Why anyone though? I suppose it doesn’t matter. Another thing I was thinking of, people talking about Kevin Spacey harassing them. Men. I read something from one of these guys and he was SHOCKED! that someone would say such things to him!

I’m not shocked at all. As a woman I’ve heard the same things over and over and over and over……..

It makes you think that everyone is an asshole. This is why I am voluntarily single.

I feel the same Z&T, after a while, I start thinking every man is a potential threat(especially powerful/famous ones) even though I know #notallmen. It’s just so pervasive, the assaults and the harassment. Are we being paranoid or just trying to be aware of the dangers the world poses to us? I honestly don’t know.

Z&T, I’ve always believed every woman and man who’s told me about harassment, abuse and rape. I thought I knew how widespread a crime it was.

I was wrong. It’s clearly worse than I ever realized. The most I’ve been able to do is raise two sons who know that it’s wrong and why.

WWTH: That orange ball of shit threw Gillespie under the bus quick enough, while STILL making it all about himself. Detestable man.

@Pee Vee – watching the results, and it does look promising.

Especially gratified seeing trans people and people of color winning.

Hoping we can see similar upsets next November…

dreemr, I know. Which is why I remain *cautiously* optimistic.

@Pee Vee – well, I can’t say I’m super hopeful, HOWEVER some of my paralyzing dismay and helplessness is lifted a teensy bit 😉


My personal theory is that harassers are opportunists first and foremost: if they see a woman and think they can get away with harassing her, they will. If they notice you’re alone, if they see you as someone who can’t get them punished somehow, if they spot any kind of opening – even something as simple as eye contact or walking by them – they’ll strike. Beauty is secondary to opportunity.


I don’t like being in big cities alone anymore because of street harassment. At least I can trust my husband and my father, and when one or both of them is around – lo and behold, nobody bothers me!

Hello again after a while, and Internet hugs to Z&T, PoM, and anyone else going through a hard time.

All these shootings and nothing done about automatic weapons. A clip of Trump on the news yesterday saying “it’s not a guns issue”. Oh, okay.

My own little worries: the secretary part of my job was transferred and now I only have the tutoring/teaching parts. Something had to change, because I was working 7 days a week and it was exhausting, but now I’m being lazy and wasting the free time I have. Then again, the change is only two weeks old; I’ll getting used to it. Then again again, I’ll get $900 less per month. I’m not sure how to feel about this yet…

Another thing, and maybe people could advise me if they like: one of my choir songs, called “Baby It’s Cold Outside,” makes me uncomfortable. It’s a silly Christmas song, but the lyrics are about a man trying to seduce or at least pressuring a woman to stay at his house… with the excuse that it’s cold outside. I find the idea both stupid and disturbing. People reviewing things on the Internet have agreed with me, but I don’t know what to do in real life. Perhaps I should email the director and suggest not assigning it again in the future – in light of all the recent sexual abuse cases where coercion and pressure was used, e.g. Harvey Weinstein, it seems insensitive to sing a song that suggests this very situation. But would that be hyperbolic of me to make that connection? I might suggest not singing it again and leave it at that.

(Side note: if you want to be seductive, the approach should be “Let’s do this fun thing,” not “Let’s do this because the alternatives are worse,” right??)


If it’s any assistance, “Baby, it’s cold outside” was known as the rape song even back in the late 70’s, at least in my rather laddish and simple circle of mates at the time. The radio stopped playing it sometime in the early 80s.
It’s one as has not aged well (despite an academy award). Worth asking if it can be dropped from future lists, at least.

I would like to second “Baby, it’s cold outside” being really rapey. I really wish it would just die.

Looks like some more comments from Jjj showed up on the previous page.

A) My pronouns are they / them

B) I’m a suicidal trans minor.

C) can you folks be nicer???

D) nothing I say will make much sense as my mental health is shit.

E) I’m feeling very sad, I’m confused why everyone is angry with me.

F) I feel like crying

Ah, shit. Why can’t I see that post? @Jjj, if you’re still reading, it’s all good. People are not angry with you, like WWTH said. Although I do think some responses were unnecessarily harsh.
Also, so sorry that you were mis-gendered (or gender was assumed – same thing?). People here are usually very careful about that; I recall someone getting called out for it quite recently, in fact. So that was surprising.
Do come back if you want to 🙂


There’s also the fact that guns are expensive, and many of these militia types have invested tens of thousands of dollars in their arsenal/prepper fantasies. So every time there’s a mass shooting, they feel their investment is justified. They have a monetary stake in continued chaos and suffering. If their longed-for racial armageddon never materializes, they’ll be disappointed, and feel cheated.

Not nearly as cheated as when they come home from vacation and find their home burgled.

If the burglar was smart, they’d leave a note saying:


I think somebody has written alternative non-rapey lyrics for It’s Cold Outside (don’t remember who, but maybe somebody here knows/knows where to find them?). So perhaps that’s one way to keep the melody and structure but ditch the revolting coercion vibe.

I’m sure that sucked, I’ve been on the receiving end before. You’re entitled to those feelings. I don’t like the fact that sometimes we launch into harsh criticism too quickly but this is an evolving social conflict. I know I’m always looking for the best response and that I can he very harsh. It’s going to happen again and all we can do is try to learn from it and sharpen our skills. We deal with deceptive and well-meaning but awful enablers and effective group responses take work to develop.

I’m not going to tell you to stay or go. All I can do is point out that there were people here that noticed we may have been making a mistake and spoke up (Mish and others thank you). We have tools for improvement and I hope that helps. I’m sorry that happened.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meaniesays:

Speaking of Baby it’s Cold Outside, here’s a rare gender flip version of that song for you to enjoy:

The Rudolph Nureyev & Miss Piggy version from The Muppet Show.

Though I keep wanting to say that Liza Minnelli had a spoof version too.

I do want to point out that last time I asked for clarification about a comment when I couldn’t tell if it was sarcasm or a troll, someone else popped up to bite my head for it. So, people can be as nice as they want or give everyone the benefit of the doubt all the want, but I guarantee you it will never be enough. Just saying.

I agree that we shouldn’t gender people until they say something to indicate what gender they are though.

Re: ‘Baby, It’s Cold Outside’ — when I’m feeling optimistic, I interpret the line “so lend me a comb” as a hint that the couple have *already* had sex, and are now discussing whether or not she can risk sleeping over, or if she has to put her clothes back on, tidy her hair and go home so her neighbours won’t gossip. I’d love to see it staged this way, actually.

But yeah, a product of rape culture even if the individual woman in the song is just playing coy (because if society expects her to play coy, there’s no way to say “No, and I really mean it in this case.”


Your troll-dar is phenomenal and Mammoth history has shown that in the vast majority of cases, your wariness is 100% justified.
I actually wasn’t thinking of you when I posted earlier about harshness, so apologies if it seemed I was “biting your head”. I simply wouldn’t dare 😀😊

Hi everyone, thanks, and so sorry for not being responsive! I’ve hit another busy patch – unfortunately with a student who has some unreasonable expectations about how fast I can correct homework :/

This version (arranged by Kirby Shaw for SATB in 2001) doesn’t have the line “Say, what’s in my drink?” but it does have “The answer is no” and such. So it’s still gross and annoying.

@Redsilkphoenix – I’ve got to go now, but I wouldn’t mind a listen tonight or tomorrow if the gender-flipped version improves the words and doesn’t only do a gender flip. 🙂

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.