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anti-Semitism depression incel misogyny normies reddit self-hatred stacies

Why one Incel Redditor thinks “treating incels for depression should be illegal” 

Therapy works. But incels don’t want to get better.

By David Futrelle

The “Incel” cult not only encourages so-called “involuntarily celibate” men to hate and blame women; it also teaches these men to hate themselves, obsessing endlessly over alleged physical flaws and other imaginary impediments that they think make them undateable and fundamentally unlovable.

One of the most insidious ways in which the Incel cult harms those in it is by discouraging clearly depressed men from seeking the psychological and psychiatric help it is clear so many of them desperately need.

Some incels dismiss therapy and medication as frauds, convinced that nothing will work for them. This is self-defeating but at least understandable. Therapy is hard work, and meds. while generally effective in helping most people, aren’t a panacea, and when you’re deeply depressed it’s hard to believe anything will help.

But there are plenty of incels who reject therapy and meds not because they think they won’t work, but because they’re afraid they will. These deeply miserable men don’t want to be cured of their misery because they don’t believe they deserve to be happy. Or even to live.

In a recent post on the Incels subreddit, someone calling himself StarvedOfHumanTouch argues bluntly that “[t]reating incels for depression should be illegal.”

“Some anti depressants and anti psychotics are too fucking effective,” he writes.

They have the ability to turn even the most suicidally depressed men into tax contributing good goys.

So far, if we ignore the not-too-subtle hint of anti-Semitism at the end there, StarvedOfHumanTouch is rehashing an old and silly argument put forth by some social critics who wrongly think that antidepressants turn everyone into “shiny happy” conformists. But his argument quickly gets much darker.

Depression like all other state of minds has a purpose. It is meant to hurt, weaken, and ultimately kill you. Trimming the fat from society so to speak. It is in the benefit of all to let the weak and disabled die off.

He’s including himself in this group.

So why keep us around? Is it compassion? Sadism? Or are we just a buffer to keep around to take the blow when shit hits the fan in society every other decade?

As far as I can figure out the logic here, StarvedOfHumanTouch apparently think that “normies” conspire to keep incels and other alleged “undesirables” around as, I guess, designated sufferers when crises roll around. It doesn’t make much sense to me either.

But StarvedOfHumanTouch’s fellow incels seem to have little trouble understanding what he’s getting at.

“[W]e subhumans exist so chads and staceys can feel better about themselves that they arent subhuman like us,” writes PM_ME_STRIPPERS.

“Yes, and conning them into “therapy” should also be a stoneable offense,” adds Thizizwhyimincel,” whose flair for the subreddit suggests that his “[m]other deserves to be raped by ISIS.”

Any normie, or whore, who recommends therapy for an incel, is intentionally trying to steal money from an inferior man. They absolutely deserve the rope for even suggesting this.

3K-caloriespurple-pilled non-incel is of the opinion that”letting people suffer is [un]acceptable.” But instead of suggesting that sufferers get treatment to ease their suffering, he thinks that “euthanasia should be legalized for people with severe depression or mental issues.”

As someone who has struggled with depression for decades now, I can tell you that this sort of bullshit is the last thing any depressed person needs to hear. Treatment is available; meds help. Incel is, as I’ve said many times before, poison. It makes everyone it touches worse off. It’s suicide fuel.

264 replies on “Why one Incel Redditor thinks “treating incels for depression should be illegal” ”

On the one hand, I respect Pratchett’s wish. On the other hand, we only have some of Kafka’s work because his friend Max Brod disobeyed Kafka’s similar instruction. Should we be grateful to Brod for The Trial and The Castle, or condemn him for breaking the agreement?

@Moggie

On the one hand, I respect Pratchett’s wish. On the other hand, we only have some of Kafka’s work because his friend Max Brod disobeyed Kafka’s similar instruction

I think the situation was slightly different; Kafka’s work was largely or wholly complete, wasn’t it? Pratchett’s complete stuff was already published, and he’d planned a big chunk of stuff (the long earth, etc) to be completed and published after he’d lost the ability to contribute to it, or died, whichever came first. I think that whatever was on those harddrives was unlikely to be at the levels of tolkien’s unpublished stuff, let alone kafka’s.

Similarly, Iain M. Banks had the beginnings of another culture novel underway when he died, but the people who saw what was there decided that there just wasn’t enough to complete and there’s no way anyone would have been able to do it justice, so that got zapped, too.

For every “The Trial” or “On War” the danger is you get a “Salmon of Doubt” or “Go set a watchman”.

(I know that last one wasn’t posthumous, but it was a similar thing of someone just publishing a draft work that might have been better left alone)

As someone who has dealt with depression, this is one of the more anger-inducing things I’ve read on this site (which says a lot). I think StarvedOfHumanTouch would probably be better for seeing a therapist and getting some help sorting out his issues, but I doubt he’ll ever will.

@Mike Smith: euthanasia is a complex topic, but I’m generally for it. However, I think (otherwise healthy) people with treatable conditions like depression should definitely not have access to euthanasia, especially since they are not in the right state of mind to make that choice.

@Mish et al, yes – I mourn for the books that might have been but that he was never able to complete 🙁
I especially wanted to read the idea he considered at one point, “Raising Taxes” (he did Raising Steam instead, I understand, but Moist von Lipwig and taxes would have been something really special).

Please, give therapy a try if you are able to! Heck, even if you don’t feel particularly depressed, therapy is a good thing. There’s a stigma around mental health that needs to be displaced. Don’t let it stop you.

Consider it a brain spa-day. It’s good for you. Sometimes there’s pain involved, and it can feel very awkward and uncomfortable if you’re unused to it or if something sensitive is being touched on, but it’s healthy to bring the bottled thoughts into the open.

I’m also terrible at taking my own advice, but i have the excuse of not having money for therapy, ha ha!

@Scildfreja Unnyðnes Open threads are sometime helpful. 😉

I hear you on the ‘lack of money for therapy’ thing. 😛

I’d love to talk more here, but, well. I already have a pretty rare job in a field that’s swarming with alt-right MRA dudebros. I really don’t want people to know who I actually am, so I am sorta walking a fine line. Wish I could, my peeps <3

A lot of these guys, for example “saint” Eliot Rodger himself by their own admission don’t put effort into meeting women at all. In fact, every time someone comes into their sub to offer dating tips, they shoot them down hard. It’s not that they don’t deal well with being unhappily single, it’s that they choose to build their identity around the incel label.

This. Exactly this. Somebody who is earnestly looking to meet somebody else for a relationship of any kind has dozens of resources available to help. Dating sites. Tip sites. Coaches. Meetups. But these guys reject it all in favour of re-affirmation from each other that their anger towards women is justified.

Speaking of dating sites, there’s now a MAGA Match site for alt-righters to find each other. My guess is it’s 99% men and 1% Russian bots.

I won’t link to it, but it’s amusing to speculate what the profiles are like. “I enjoy long moonlit goosesteps along the beach.”

@Jives

Even if they tried all that and cant get anywhere, doesnt make their anger justified. Guys need to learn that just because they put themselves out there, doesnt make them entitled to a chance/date

Saw the link up on GamerGhazi and I was amused by this one comment expressing outrage that we’re not accepting mental health excuses for hideous incel behaviour (emphasis mine):

I have no idea why I chose to look at the comment section, just what I expected. Really every discussion about incels is awful. Either they go too far one way, humouring their preconceptions about women (I don’t appreciate men telling me what I’m attracted to)… Or they go too far the other way, for example things like wishing they would hurry it up a bit and kill themselves.

Some of the comments reek of calling incels faking it for attention, I just don’t think that’s an appropriate thing to say (what’s wrong with a cry for help?). And some of the other comments accuse them of not being mentally ill because they don’t sound like they have depression, using anecdotes of their own experiences with depression… Maybe they don’t sound like they have (your specific experience of) depression because they don’t have depression, and there are other mental illnesses on the planet? Or that they have depression but it’s manifesting differently from yours? Perhaps they have comorbid depression? And why do you have to prove you have clinical depression for anyone to take your mental health seriously?

All I’ve got is my own depression to call upon, but I certainly didn’t join an online subculture that talked about other human being in such apocalyptic dehumanizing terms. And frankly, whatever issues they may or may not have, they certainly don’t warrant any empathy from me at that point. They’re bad people and should be treated as bad people.

@ dcfc

Even if they tried all that and cant get anywhere, doesnt make their anger justified. Guys need to learn that just because they put themselves out there, doesnt make them entitled to a chance/date

Didn’t say it did, just observing that if the desire for companionship was genuine, there’s resources to improve one’s chances of finding somebody compatible. But everything that incels say just screams that they’re not really interested in companionship, just the perceived validation of peers.

@Jives

Their interest is genuine I think., but its their reaction to rejection which is appalling. Yes finding a woman would validate them but they would love a girlfriend too that they can have a connection to. But its tough fucking shit, cant always get what you want in life. Man up, swallow it and make peace with the fact that girls dont find you attractive. Dont sit there and whine ffs

Not saying that but finding a girl will increase your confidence and will validate you in the way that you are getting married or in a relationship as everyone else in society is.

The thing about getting treatment is that it may open up the most horrible thing possible for many drawn to the Incel community. They might actually get better! And in getting better they would have to confront the fact that while they may have not planted all the seeds of their discontent, they cultivated for them, cared for them, owned every single one of them until that garden of misery belonged to them alone and they don’t get to blame the “Chads” and “Stacies” and “Normies”. They get to utter some of the most terrifying words a person can say to themselves: “This is my fault.” That they aren’t the cosmic playthings of an uncaring god. They aren’t the child bringing prosperity to Omelas. That the most important person in their lives is the primary cause of their misery, and that most important person is…them.

Not saying that but finding a girl will increase your confidence and will validate you in the way that you are getting married or in a relationship as everyone else in society is.

I really hope you’re a teenager, otherwise it’s creepy as fuck that you keep referring to women as “girls.”

Anyway, as I pointed out to you earlier, women are people.

We’re not interchangeable female shaped things that exist to validate men. We’re not achievements and not prizes.

It’s great that you’re not as full of rage as the incels David covers are, but this entire thread you’ve been speaking of women in really objectifying ways and that’s not cool either.

@ dcfcfan1

finding a girl will increase your confidence and will validate you

And antiseptic cream might clean up acne, but that’s not a reason to marry it.

Women are not there to be applied to your ego like ointment.

you are getting married or in a relationship as everyone else in society is.

If you think everyone else in society is getting married or in a relationship, your horizons must be very limited. Have you never heard of the people who are getting divorced? Or single? Or celibate? Are they not members of society too?

And – other people (women or not) are not in the world to become your ticket to some imaginary club.

I certainly didnt mean to objectify women and I apologise if I came across this way. I was just talking about the people I know and my family when I was talking about getting married. If I havent got in a relationship by the age of lets say 27 -ish , I know that people around me will think that there is something wrong with me. Thats probably where my horizon comes from.

And I never once mentioned ego. And I get that women are people and they arent there to validate women. As for women being “prizes to be won”, well I have left the game , so there certainly wont be no “prize” for me 🙂

On a serious note, I tried talking to INCELS and get them to realise that there is so much more to life than getting laid or finding a girlfriend but it was just impossible. Absolutely draining. Tried suggesting them books, gyms they can go to, new hobbies,… no use.

(Codependence + Depression)Right-Wing Beliefs = Incel

At least that is what I get from the subreddit. I can sort of empathize with them though. Before I was on anti-depressants I was also really angry and nihilistic. The few times since I have gone off of them due to not being able to afford them it always goes the same way: start out okay, become more pessimistic, eventually the self hating voice overpowers all the other internal voices, and eventually I react to the build up of self hate in the way my gender role has taught me: turning it outwards. It is like being the subordinate member of a gang run by a monster who gets bored and violent. You wind up trying to find exterior targets for him to bully so he doesn’t bully of you.

When off meds I also slowly gravitate towards right wing beliefs, I find. It shouldn’t be shocking. Right wing beliefs, whether political or religious, are inherently eugenic in nature. The weak and the strong, the alpha and the beta, the saved and the damned. Everything is a game with winners and losers.

Never understood this alpha and beta shit, just a way for men to put other men down. Not healthy at all.

Isaac Newton apparently never got laid or even managed a kiss, does he suddenly become beta?

@Christina Nordlander
Again, not always treatable. It also does not completely override your ability to make decisions.

@Virgin Mary
Many games have an actual story, featuring positive interaction between male and female characters, though (with female characters having varied personalities, too. Even if they’re still intended to be appealing to female-attracted male players, it’s more than ‘insta-compliant sex trophy’). Even a series like Mario, while decidedly not ideal, at least presents Mario as actually doing something to earn Princess Peaches’ affection, and he’s not the most conventionally attractive, either. The Zelda series presents at least some positive interaction, and to an extent Zelda does her own thing, too. However reductive the relationship presented was (eg. give this character gifts so they’ll like you – which often still has specific types of gifts for a specific character, so personality is taken into account), I’ve not really played a game where my character got awarded a woman just like that. Media portrayals have an impact, but choosing to go quite this absurdly far is really these guys’ own fault.

And they’re the type who complain that/act like women are totally different from men, but who then try to drive away any women who enjoy hobbies like gaming, too. They really seem to dislike it when I say something like ‘Hey, I’m a woman, I’m a gamer! And my sister and her partner aren’t really gamers as such, but they play videogames together sometimes. He’s a skinny physics nerd, btw’. I think it’s just this typical patriarchal thing where men try to shove women into a very narrow gender role, then complain they have nothing in common (no duh, because you wouldn’t let them do anything associated with your role) while still refusing to let the women move beyond that role. It’s about power over women, nothing else.

@Scildfreja Unnyðnes
That’s a good an interesting way of putting it, and indeed describes them very well. It seems far more like manipulative behaviour, abuser mindset, than that of someone with depression.

they are just fucking ugly tbh hahahah., they just get salty about it

Can we get rid of this person? They’ve added nothing productive. Just falsehoods like this, even after this issue is discussed earlier in the thread.

Why?

Not said anything offensive, or degrading. Its true, they are not attractive (like me) and struggle massively with women. Thats Ok, no shame in that. Problem is they blame their whole failures on women and have an awful mindset. Not only that they drag other people down too. They deserve to be made fun of, even if they do have depression

Not said anything offensive, or degrading.

Yes, you have.

Its true, they are not attractive (like me) and struggle massively with women.

It’s actually not true. For one, attractiveness is subjective, not a fact or truth. Second, when they post photos of themselves they’re usually not what mainstream media considers unattractive, which is the scale I assume you’re using for your “true” statement about attractiveness.

Thats Ok, no shame in that.

There shouldn’t be shame in it, but it’s fucking low to attack someone based on their appearance.

Problem is they blame their whole failures on women and have an awful mindset. Not only that they drag other people down too. They deserve to be made fun of, even if they do have depression

They deserve to be made fun of for being horrible people. We don’t condone making fun of people for their appearance here. If for no other reason, don’t do it because it’s against the comment policy.

What have I said that has offended you?

Maybe the attractiveness is coming out from me, because I can relate to being ugly and I can emphasise with them (TO SOME DEGREE, not condoning their actions). I just feel that INCELS would be better off accepting their situation and forgetting about getting laid (like I have) rather than obsess over it

I have never attacked someone intentionally for their appearance (I use the word ugly a lot as a descriptive not to make fun).

After all I look at susan boyle, isaac newton for inspiration, if they can live a happy and decent life , why can Incels?

dcfcfan1: “I use the word ugly a lot as a descriptive not to make fun”

Also dcfcfan1: “they are just fucking ugly tbh hahahah”

I was making fun of their situation , not the fact that they are ugly. And I still feel that they are all unnattractive which has caused them not to get laid, but no excuses for their shitty mindset.

I feel like I can help them a lot if they are willing to engage and listen to me. Im an unattractive beast, but doing well in life, play sports, read books, go gym. Never got laid or will ever get laid but confident of living a fullfilling life with plenty of goals. If I could just help one of them, I would be delighted

@Axe

Sorry for Hijacking this thread and making it all about me, but when I was 17, I was ranting about how I couldnt get a date, or a girl to like me ect ect.

As I matured, I realised its not the end of the fucking world and I made peace with it. Sounds cheesy but plenty of people would kill to be in my position; healthy, supportive family, nice upbringing. Perspective is everthing

@dcfcfan1

I was making fun of their situation , not the fact that they are ugly.

Except you define their situation as being ugly in literally the next sentence, as well as this one.

I still feel that they are all unnattractive which has caused them not to get laid

See? Also, it’s telling that you “still feel” this situation is a certain way despite multiple women and Axe cluing you in that it isn’t like that.

I feel like I can help them a lot if they are willing to engage and listen to me

Evidence you haven’t been listening to us at all part 9002: You think it’s possible to help people who aggressively refuse help. Why don’t you go over there and post stuff about self-improvement, see what happens?

Last I heard, they’d set up a bot to scold anybody who even suggests actually trying to do better or be better.

Never got laid or will ever get laid

Thanks for the irrelevant boner update, random dude. This is, like, the 12th time you’ve told us your dick is dry?

So since it’s pretty clear you are making fun of them for being ugly though most of them actually aren’t, here’s a quote for you:

kupo said:

We don’t condone making fun of people for their appearance here. If for no other reason, don’t do it because it’s against the comment policy.

@Kupo

Yeah, I’m glad I can get on stage and wear fishnets and shake my ass and do preshows that involve miniskirts and high kicks. It’s different as part of a shadowcast. It’s like doing it but without all the risks that make me hyperventilate.

@Alan Robertshaw

It means we’re performing the show while the show is on screen behind us.

It’s not appropriate to call it a play because while we have props and extras and costumes, we don’t do any writing and we don’t expect to be heard. We lipsync to the show, and dance, and try to add humorous elements here and there based on the callbacks and the inherent ridiculousness of the movie.

Like sometimes Frank does the Macarena while Tim Curry is making Rocky, and transylvanians hold up scorecards during the pool scene and act as windshield wipers during the car scene.

A lot of the difficulty of what we do is because we work to the movie’s pace so we have a very limited time to do technical changes.

Oh wow that’s brilliant!

Are there any other films with shadowcasts? I can see how RHPS lends itself to that; but now I’m wondering what else I’d like to see.

@Alan Robertshaw

I’m not aware of any, though I know there’s a LOT of Rocky Horror shadowcasts around the USA. There’s probably one in or near the closest major city to you.

As far as other movies go, I’m not aware of any. But I know my cast is going to try and do Reefer Madness: The Musical next April. And Clue sometimes.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people sometimes do everything from Little Shop of Horrors to Heathers to Clue, but as far as I’m aware it’s only Rocky that gets the 37 years of constant performing my cast has a history of.

@ ignoresandra

There’s probably one in or near the closest major city to you.

The nearest city to me is Truro; so they’re probably still waiting for the original film to turn up at the cinema.

*breathes deep* OK… Hey, incels! Yes, even the ones who don’t call themselves incel. Yes, even the ones who reject the worst tenants of inceldom (while still wallowing in and spreading the same toxic misery that forms the group’s foundation). Yes, even the ones who like to think of themselves as feminists or allies. Sort yourselves out. It’s gross…

@dc

Sorry for Hijacking this thread and making it all about me

Yes, that was our problem. Jackass

when I was 17, I was ranting about how I couldnt get a date, or a girl to like me ect ect

When I was 17, I was silently empty inside cos girls didn’t seem interested in me (on reflection tho, a combo of fear of rejection and latent asexuality/aromaticism probably led to fewer dates than anything). However…

As I matured, I realised its not the end of the fucking world and I made peace with it

To paraphrase Batman: ‘we both looked into the abyss, but you blinked’. You haven’t matured, you haven’t made peace with it. Just saying you have don’t make it so. You’re an incel in all but name. Stop it. Or don’t, whatever. I’ve got my own shit to deal with

@Sandra

Solidarity for body issues and weirdness about sex

Thanks, fam! It’s a trip definitely. I’ve said before, finding out I’m aspec didn’t make my ‘incel’ days any better for my self esteem. Still fucks me up and in new, ever surprising ways 😛

Part of the reason I’m even involved in Rocky Horror is to work through some of those

Great to hear you’re doing your thing. Sounds like a fun time. Confidence builds too slow, but what little I’ve cultivated, I never wanna be without again. Best of luck! With everything, ya know? <3

OMG, shadowcast RHPS sounds like so much FUN!!!!

*Opens Google*

@Alan Robertshaw

The nearest city to me is Truro; so they’re probably still waiting for the original film to turn up at the cinema.

Ah. Then you’re probably better off searching via the internet. The two casts I know of in my state are near Norfolk naval base and in Fredericksburg.

@Axecalibur

OK… Hey, incels! Yes, even the ones who don’t call themselves incel. Yes, even the ones who reject the worst tenants of inceldom (while still wallowing in and spreading the same toxic misery that forms the group’s foundation). Yes, even the ones who like to think of themselves as feminists or allies. Sort yourselves out. It’s gross…

Gonna second this. I can’t and won’t be emotionally available for everyone, especially folks who think they have nothing to work on.

Thanks, fam! It’s a trip definitely. I’ve said before, finding out I’m aspec didn’t make my ‘incel’ days any better for my self esteem. Still fucks me up and in new, ever surprising ways

It really is. I hate me and wanna break mirrors, then I think I look fucking cute, then I’m on stage and I can’t afford to think about how bad I look, and then people compliment me on my costuming and I just…it’s tough. I wanna be up there in slinky dresses but I feel more like I deserve to be in a potato sack.

I kinda googled, but I didn’t get a convincing definition for aspec. Asexual spectrum? Autistic spectrum? I’m on both of them.

Topic of incel crap: I haven’t gone on a date since I was 17. The sex I’ve had, I wish I didn’t have. It used to eat me up inside while I was younger, but not because I actually wanted a relationship. Because I felt like I had to be in one to be valid in my existence, that relationships and children were the only point to life. I no longer consider that true.

I stared into the abyss, saw it for what it was, and stepped back. I’ve done this a thousand times on a thousand topics, this one was just a lot more painful than others, and echoes of it keeps carrying forward.

So when I see some incel dilettante come along and say that he’s dateless because he’s ugly, it angers me. Not a wildfire anger, difficult to control, but a personal white-hot rage like the furnace of a smelting plant. Because effectively what he’s saying is that people who don’t date don’t do so because they look bad, and I know that isn’t true. I’m 6’6, with makeup and the right clothes I could compete with literal fucking models. But I was mostly single in the past because of my social issues, which included learned abusive behavior and misogyny, not because there was anything wrong with the way I looked. Same is true for the “incels”.

They’re voluntarily celibate, because maintaining that kind of loathesome personality without it collapsing on itself is a choice.

@Peevee

OMG, shadowcast RHPS sounds like so much FUN!!!!

It really is! Show up slightly tipsy, with one or three of your friends, and be prepared to shout at the screen and performers, and dance a bit.

Some theaters, like the one my cast performs at, even let you throw things. You might like it, you might not, but it’s definitely an experience.

IgnoreSandra,

I used to go to Midnight screenings when I was younger…I would LOVE to find one near me! (The one theater who held midnight screenings for 35 years closed down in 2010. Boo.)

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