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lying liars men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA

Men’s Rights Activism, summed up in a single comment

The anti-male oppression was THIS BIG
The anti-male oppression was THIS BIG

A rare moment of candor on the Men’s Rights subreddit:

Nuggetry 6 points 1 day ago You act like we're all handing out pamphlets on the street to get people to listen. Not all of us here are trying to "convince people" of a cause as you put it. Some of us just want a place where we can rant a bit and let off some steam because there's no where else to do it for some of us. And yes, that means exaggerating and fabricating sometimes.

Yeah, we noticed that.

H/T — r/againstmensrights

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Scildfreja
Scildfreja
6 years ago

comment image

dslucia
dslucia
6 years ago

@Nequam:

Molyneux never quite seemed to get the hang of actually making games user-friendly, did he?

Anybody else remember the UI and menu system for the PC version of Fable? That thing was such a mess that they somehow managed to make it worse in Fable III and then apparently still couldn’t get it totally workable and pleasant to use even in Fable Anniversary.

I want to try the Black & White games again now, actually. I think I only ever got to the third map of the campaign when I was younger.

Tessa
6 years ago

Nequam

@dslucia: Ah, Black and White. Such a great idea. Such a mess to play.

But it was fun. I was an evil vengeful malevolent god, but I trained my Sheep creature to be super nice. Never doing mean things in front of it (I would send it away). So my tower was all evil and gnarled while the sheep was all glowing and golden. It must’ve really confused the villagers.

VioletBeauregarde
VioletBeauregarde
6 years ago

“And yes, that means fabricating and exaggerating sometimes”

Color me shocked!

BTW, I came across this while looking for drinking games:

http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?2262-The-MHRM-Drinking-Game-Super-Turbo-Fermented-Lucifer-Edition

You’re welcome 🙂

Sinkable John
Sinkable John
6 years ago

My feelings went from “SWEET ! An MRA drinking game ! It’s 5am and I’ma get drunk !” to “Oh. That’s a very lame game.” in about… oh, let’s say 10 seconds.

I also don’t get how these guys somehow manage to be offensive to themselves and each other.

NiOg
NiOg
6 years ago

My favorite civ-like sim always and forever will be Afterlife. You managed Heaven and Hell simultaneously, and had to balance the needs of one with the other. I wish they’d remake it. So much genius.

Dalillama
Dalillama
6 years ago

@Moocow

Flat feel are annoying though. Walking around without correcting soles makes my back hurt, although it was worse when I was a kid and my back was hurting for unknown reasons.

Ruined my knees due to flat feet, myself.

Someday I hope some RTS video game will be ballsy enough to have a Hero/Unique unit decide to simply disobey you. Like, you click to tell them to go attack this unit and they’re like “NOPE! That’s going too far; I don’t like your leadership”.

Or even have that possibility for units in general. Give each unit a morale stat, with a base that varies by unit type (conscipts have a low one, etc.), and then you can spend more money per unit to increase it (representing better pay, better rations, etc.), and it will go down if they keep getting thrown into situations where they’re outnumbered, or if they’re used in an inappropriate way (e.g. if you use light infantry as shock troops, their morale goes down). Officer units (and the player) would have a leadership score representing personal charisma and the like that would improve morale under their command. If morale gets too low, the units might refuse orders, desert, or even mutiny.

@Sinkable John

Then again there’s a world of difference between evil and goddamn stupid.

Yes, and then no; in practice, evil usually ends up being suffiently counterproductive that it’s indistinguishable from stupid in the long run.

@Scildfreja

It’s really interesting how Populous set the tone for so much. If it had been a more peaceful game, would we see strategy games less focused on war and genocide?

That happens a lot. Because D&D was originally created as an adjunct to wargames, tabletop rpgs are pretty heavily biased towards a ‘kill things/people and take their stuff’ oriented play style. There are certainly other game types out there these days, but they’re almost all focused on at least the ‘kill enemies’ part of that; the ‘take their stuff’ part varies. There’s also an increasing trend in examining the motivations and backstories of the previous owners of the stuff in question, since if e.g. orcs aren’t killing machines purpose-built by a dark god (a la Tolkein) (Yes, technically not a god. I don’t care), then they’re people, and killing them and taking their stuff starts to have ethical implications, etc.

EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

That happens a lot. Because D&D was originally created as an adjunct to wargames, tabletop rpgs are pretty heavily biased towards a ‘kill things/people and take their stuff’ oriented play style. There are certainly other game types out there these days, but they’re almost all focused on at least the ‘kill enemies’ part of that; the ‘take their stuff’ part varies. There’s also an increasing trend in examining the motivations and backstories of the previous owners of the stuff in question, since if e.g. orcs aren’t killing machines purpose-built by a dark god (a la Tolkein) (Yes, technically not a god. I don’t care), then they’re people, and killing them and taking their stuff starts to have ethical implications, etc.

There’s a tabletop RPG called Power Kill, by John Tynes, in which you play RPG heroes undergoing group psychiatric therapy. Common questions include “Why did you kill all those people?”

I think it was intended to make a point, rather than to be playable. It’s hard to tell with Tynes.

Orion
Orion
6 years ago

@scildfreja,

Omg, Chloe Howl / Howell. I can’t wait to see what her first album will be like.

Dalillama
Dalillama
6 years ago

@Alan

Indeed. But to give an example, that refrain of “If you’re paying a lot of interest on your credit card you might want to tighten your belt a bit and pay off some of the balance instead” was easily (mis)understood as an analogy for austerity.

I know. I hear it all the time, and it makes me alternately want to cry and break things. (Especially because, even in a household economics context, it assumes that it’s actually possible to ‘tighten your belt’, something which isn’t necessarily the case. I’m not certain how things are in the UK, but here in Yankeeland we substituted easy credit for increased wages 40 years ago, and most American households can’t actually live from paycheck to paycheck anymore, hence increasing debt.

It was absorbed, whereas talk of quantitative easing wasn’t.

And that’s the other part of the problem. The right wing lies using easy to understand false analogies, while the left wing lies using complicated bullshit. The left surrendered completely on economics 50 years back, and now sells a diluted version of the same garbage economics the right peddles. Quantitative easing is shit. I want to spit on the fuckheads who push it as the solution to anything. If the government want to put money into the economy, the solution isn’t to buy up private holdings and hope something nice happens, the solution is to SPEND A BUNCH OF FUCKING MONEY ideally on useful projects, like, say, universal high-speed fiber, civic wi-fi, affordable housing, high speed rails, and a myriad of other things that would improve quality of life and the economy. Instead of buying securities off banks and hoping the banks will lend the money in a useful way, just give people business loans directly, along with technical assistance, and suddenly they have jobs and the government has more tax revenue. It’s fucking magical how it works, it is. Pardon the profanity, but this is one of my personal bugbears.

Don’t forget, most of us don’t know the difference between the national debt and the deficit so using the terminology of economics went over people’s’ heads.

I know the usual level of economic literacy is pretty dismal, but if most people don’t understand the difference between total debt and current deficit, I don’t see how they can balance their checkbooks… Is it just the terminology that’s a problem?

Communication is key in politics and it’s something that populist politicians tend to be better at (by definition I suppose)

And, as noted above, the New Left kicked economic populism to the curb, and ceded that ground entirely to the fascists.

Pixels Green
6 years ago

To be fair, that comment describes the large majority of all social media.

Diptych
Diptych
6 years ago

Or even have that possibility for units in general. Give each unit a morale stat, with a base that varies by unit type (conscipts have a low one, etc.), and then you can spend more money per unit to increase it (representing better pay, better rations, etc.), and it will go down if they keep getting thrown into situations where they’re outnumbered, or if they’re used in an inappropriate way (e.g. if you use light infantry as shock troops, their morale goes down). Officer units (and the player) would have a leadership score representing personal charisma and the like that would improve morale under their command. If morale gets too low, the units might refuse orders, desert, or even mutiny.

The Jagged Alliance series used morale and disobedience in an interesting way. Turn-based tactics, rather than real-time strategy – the player is the commander of a mercenary group hired for various quasi-humanitarian campaigns. Troops all have individual identities, backstories, skills, likes, dislikes, etc. Some are civilian professionals; some are ex-military or -private security; some just like to get paid to hurt people.

The gameplay effect was that some units would refuse to carry out orders that went against their moral code – like attacking allies or civilians – and would quit in disgust if they ever saw such things done. Others were so stubborn or bloodthirsty that they’d refuse to retreat from battle. Plus, they all had to be treated responsibly, given adequate rest, and not forced to work alongside people with dramatically differing views.

Orion
Orion
6 years ago

@Scild,

Chloe Howl! She brightens my day every time. I really hope she releases a full album some day.

Moocow
Moocow
6 years ago

@Dalilama

Eek! I’ve been told that I might have knee problems when I get older :/ I wear correcting soles all the time, hopefully that does something.

@dslucia

Fantastic! I’ll definitely check it out.

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
6 years ago

Holy shit, am I late
@SFHC

All in favour of making this the official collective noun, say “Hell yes.”

http://i.imgur.com/egOu6lr.gif

@Scildfreja
Grand Juries are… it’s not the fault of the justice system itself so much as the people in it. I hope that makes sense. If the prosecutor wanted to, he coulda indicted a sammich. ‘If’ and ‘coulda’ being the key words

@Dalillama

Especially because, even in a household economics context, it assumes that it’s actually possible to ‘tighten your belt’, something which isn’t necessarily the case

http://www.snarksquad.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/preach3.gif

Re:games
1)’What do you think of morality systems in games?’ ‘I think it would be a good idea.’- Gandhi, I believe
2)I made a joke in a thread a week or so ago concerning minesweeper (don’t fret, if you don’t remember). I’ve been hitting that particular substance pretty hard since. Not as good as I thought I was, not as bad either. I once got 4 4’s and a 6 right next to each other. Brutal… Anywho, carry on

Edit: minor word change, seemed a bit unintentionally condescending to Scildfreja otherwise

guy
guy
6 years ago

The Total War series has morale and units routing in battle as things turn against them. Total War Warhammer came out just yesterday, though not everyone in it has to deal with troops running away: the undead legions of the Vampire Counts have the morale system but rather than fleeing the magic animating them starts to falter and they crumble to dust.

Begining-Doll
Begining-Doll
6 years ago

Hey, long time lurker and all around terrible writer here.
I couldn’t help but notice you all like RPGs and wish for a non violent option! I know of one fun one called Golden Sky Stories. You play as spirits that protect and help townspeople!
( Please excuse the misspelling in my name it is from my art account!)

EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

1)’What do you think of morality systems in games?’ ‘I think it would be a good idea.’- Gandhi, I believe

Wasn’t Gandhi the one who was in favour of nuclear weapons being the most commonly used tool of diplomacy?

Alan Robershaw
Alan Robershaw
6 years ago

@ dalillama

You make a lot of very salient points.

There’s seems to be quite a lot in common with the UK and US experiences. Over here it used to be a traditional view that the Tories were good on the economy and Labour were good with public services (this was often reflected in the voting pattern “Tories in the general election, Labour in local elections)

That changed a bit with “New Labour” and Tony Blair. He stuck in a chancellor (the guy who runs our economy) who tried to re-establish a bit of confidence on economics. So there was lots of harping on about ‘prudence’ and fiscal responsibility. There’s now an internal schism between the Blairite wing and the new Corbyn set up. Although, despite being portrayed as a hard core socialist, few of Corbyns economic policies are particularly drastic. Re-nationalise a few key infrastructure things like railways and pump a bit of cash into the economy. But it’s that traditional left wing thing of spending more time in-fighting than getting the message out there. It’s very understandable of course why Corbyn doesn’t trust the media, but by refusing to engage he just leaves the field clear for the Tories to monopolise the debate.

All fascinating stuff. Could fill reams and reams with this. But back to our initial thing about communication, that still is a big problem for the left here and progressives generally. Great at speaking to the choir and people who take an active interest in politics, less so at engaging “the man (or woman) on the Clapham omnibus”*

(* that’s like our equivalent of ‘Joe Q Public’)

Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

@ dalillama

You make a lot of very salient points.

There’s seems to be quite a lot in common with the UK and US experiences. Over here it used to be a traditional view that the Tories were good on the economy and Labour were good with public services (this was often reflected in the voting pattern “Tories in the general election, Labour in local elections)

That changed a bit with “New Labour” and Tony Blair. He stuck in a chancellor (the guy who runs our economy) who tried to re-establish a bit of confidence on economics. So there was lots of harping on about ‘prudence’ and fiscal responsibility. There’s now an internal schism between the Blairite wing and the new Corbyn set up. Although, despite being portrayed as a hard core socialist, few of Corbyns economic policies are particularly drastic. Re-nationalise a few key infrastructure things like railways and pump a bit of cash into the economy. But it’s that traditional left wing thing of spending more time in-fighting than getting the message out there. It’s very understandable of course why Corbyn doesn’t trust the media, but by refusing to engage he just leaves the field clear for the Tories to monopolise the debate.

All fascinating stuff. Could fill reams and reams with this. But back to our initial thing about communication, that still is a big problem for the left here and progressives generally. Great at speaking to the choir and people who take an active interest in politics, less so at engaging “the man (or woman) on the Clapham omnibus”*

(* that’s like our equivalent of ‘Joe Q Public’)

pitshade
pitshade
6 years ago

@ katz

That sounds similar to Dwarf Fortress.

I’ve read about that but haven’t seen it. I’m guessing that they’re similar except maybe in scale? Also my impression of DF is that it involves a lot of unintentional comedy from how things interact. Majesty is pretty straightforward, though there are some humorous Easter Eggs in the sound files.

Re: Black and White

I wanted to like that, I really did.

mockingbird
mockingbird
6 years ago

@NickNameNick, WWTH re: venting:

For me personally, I find venting can be helpful. But only when it’s about a specific person’s specific behavior that I’m having trouble dealing with or a frustrating specific situation. It also only works if you let it go once you finish the complaining.

Spending day after day talking shit about women as a whole is not any kind of helpful and healthy venting. They’re neither letting their anger go or resolving anything.
The person or people who you vent to is an important factor as well.

Like, doing so with a therapist can actually help you by dealing with a problem and moving on (perhaps even ways to deal with it better or avoid it in the future) – but many of these MRAs, MGTOWs, etc. are all about enabling terrible behavior further. They’re toxic individuals who seek out other toxic individuals in order to become more entrenched in their toxicity.

Adding: When done with someone you can trust to provide insightful feedback (or at least ask the right questions), I’ve found that venting can be useful in helping to clarify in your own mind why something’s bothering you – you know, like when you’re angry but can’t quite put your finger on why.
If venting becomes or incorporates “talking through” a problem, it can help to define it. For me, anyway, something needs to be defined before it can be adequately addressed (whether it needs to be eliminated, transformed, or accommodated).

/not a mental health professional

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
6 years ago

To have played a lot of RPG, both with a lot of combat and not, there is one thing with combat-orientated who feel very good : you alway have a solution to everything in the end. And it’s dealt in a way that feel fair.

The problem with playing a non-violent group is that, very often, we feel powerless in the end, or on some specific case, too powerful. It’s a lot harder – but not impossible – to have all the trials of the adventurers be non-violent, and it’s often that they feel they can’t force the good resuts, because the universe is rigged against them. It’s realistic to me, but it’s a specific part of realism I don’t like in RPGs.

That being said, there is a lot of RPGs where combat is important and life is well considered. One notable one is about an aztec-look alike who can battle, but will never actually finish their opponent. Another, more classic, example is Legend of the Five Ring, where there is a strong honor code, backed by regional attitude toward human life ; but killing peasants is both authorized, and something that will make you an outcast.

mockingbird
mockingbird
6 years ago

@Dalilama – *silently nods in agreement*

In many ways, my husband is one of the most astonishingly intelligent people that I’ve ever known, so it always surprises me when one off the blank spots in his knowledge base turns up.

A good portion of a weekend morning a while back was spent explaining neoliberalism to him after I said, “I wish that we had political options other than between different shades of neoliberalism.”

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

I think it’s not so much a matter of not being able to understand the difference between debt and deficit and more a matter of not bothering to understand. They hear government spending = bad so much that they hear either word and assume it’s equally bad. They know they don’t like it. No nuance necessary.

This is also how people assume that if taxes get cut, spending must have gone down and we get a situation where people didn’t notice or care that the Bush administration went to war without bothering to pay for it. It’s how people say they want budget cuts but don’t want spending from any programs they like to be cut.

Who needs to think when you just say tax cut good spending bad?

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