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MGTOW wonders: Why do women see us as “breeding stock for making babies based on racial traits”

Hey pretty good album
Hey pretty good album

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We here at We Hunted the Mammoth often wonder why the so-called Men Going Their Own Way don’t just GO already.

But maybe we’re being unfair. Because it seems clear that a lot of them don’t live on the same planet as the rest of us.

Take this, well, unexpected critique of women I found in the MGTOW subreddit the other day.

Just when I thought women couldn't disgust me more. (self.MGTOW) submitted 7 days ago by Grant_The_King_Cheeb I know women who think of men as breeding stock. Now let me explain a bit: I work in a small town and never actually spent any real time living in a city but I notice this conversation with dozens of women every day. "I'd totally fuck a black/asian/native/latin/white guy just to have a kid with his skin/eyes/hair/genes." This just disgusts me especially when I'm somehow fit into the conversation. I already knew that women fuck guys to get child support but I really didn't see the day when we were viewed as breeding stock just for making babies based on racial traits. Any guy willing to fall into that sort of trap can make his own choices (like they have much free will in the first place) but still, or fucks sake...

For my reaction to this post, let me refer you to the following gif.

GIF-Rollout-Cat

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Moocow
6 years ago

Oh dear, an MGTOW felt objectified! If only women knew how that felt…

/s

WickedWitchOfWhatever
WickedWitchOfWhatever
6 years ago

Well, in Britain I’ve definitely heard the wanting biracial babies thing, and children of mixed families are often assumed to be going to be especially beautiful – but I’ve never heard of anyone actively choosing a partner on the basis their kids might look pretty. Maybe people literally choosing sperm donors might, but probably not as many as choose donors that look like their actual partners.

I also think it’s mostly harmless.
It is anologous to benevolent sexism I know, and discussed awkwardly and in appropriately, but on the other hand subjective is subjective. Biracial kids aren’t necessarily going to look a certain way, but there are certain traits that are much more common in biracial people that a lot of people do find beautiful. I don’t think it’s fetishistic to admire certain skin tones and eye colours ( if general politeness on commenting on other people’s bodies is applied ). And people often admire uncommon features – red hair, platinum blondes, very long hair. It’s possible to think someone is beautiful without creeping on them or fetishising them. Being considered to have a higher than average chance of being handsome or pretty is about the least harmful oppression you can get – especially as I’ve never seen it mixed with assumptions about only being pretty.

bluecat
bluecat
6 years ago

So, a small town. Let’s say a population of about 100,000? Or fewer? (I live in a small city and that’s a bit less than we have).

I’m also going to assume, because he says nothing to suggest the contrary, that it isn’t one of those single-industry towns with a lot of men and very few women, or vice versa. He doesn’t live in the wild west of fiction, I take it, or a wet-nursing industrial complex. I’ll assume a simpler split, say 52,000 women (because there are slightly more in the population, though predominantly towards the higher age groups).

OK so balancing it for demographics. I’m going to generously assume that he’s probably not evesdropping on under 14s discussing their potential mates – I hope not, anyway. In my country that’s 17.37% of the population, so that leaves 42,967 women over 14.

I’m pretty sure he’d start excluding women once this “Wall” crops up – which judging by what some of them say is about 18 these days. But again, I’m going to be generous and assume we can exclude everyone over the age of 50, which is average age of menopause.

I don’t have the demographic numbers for that in my country, though – only for 55+ – which is 29.31% – so that leaves 30, 373 women between 14 and 55. I’m going to quite unfairly and arbitrarily assume an equal spread across each five year age band and making there about 3796 women over 50, leaving 26576 between 14 and 50.

I’m not sure how to calculate for people who are trans or infertile or permanently celibate or have decided never to have children ever – even if they had a chance to do so with someone of another race! because I don’t know how many there may be in the population and because there’s also the issue it all being filtered through his point of view anyway.

Pretty safe bet that if any men with uteruses were discussing interracial pregnancy within his earshot his brain would explode. So – I’m generously assuming his brain hasn’t exploded – but of the figure of 26576 women of age in his town, some of them are never going to be discussing pregnancy at all for one reason or another. Let’s say a couple of thousand at least – a conservative estimate.

OK, so we’re down to about 24,000 women. Handy to have a multiple of 12, of course, as our next unit is the dozen. Dozens of women per day! I’m going to conservatively estimate that “dozens” means “two dozen” – as opposed to, say, 12 dozen, which would have had 144 women telling him their plans for interracial babymaking during one action-packed day. How would he get anything else done.

Let’s say he’s lived there 10 years and is still living there? That’s 3642 days (2 leap years).

During that time he has had 87,360 women have that conversation within his earshot, 24 of them per day. Which is more than double the female population over 14 and includes grannies, the infertile, those without wombs, nuns and those allergic to babies.

OK, so the calculation must be wrong. Let’s say he’s lived there for 5 years – 1821 days. Nope – still at 43,680 women, still more than the total population over 14.

So – something doesn’t compute.

Maybe it’s the same 24 women and the same conversation day after day? It looks like a normal town but it’s actually Groundhog day?

Or the entire female population, from toddlers to grandmothers is trolling him?

Or women are coming in in coachloads *from other towns* order to have conversations which bug him just where he can hear?

I would love the last two theories to be true!

But I think – sigh – he’s just being foolish.

Rosie*sings*
Rosie*sings*
6 years ago

What a beautiful gif! It’s the best part of the whole post.
(I really just frequent this blog for the cats).

Frank Torpedo
6 years ago

@Kat

My black coworker: Jose Feliciano and I would make beautiful babies together.

There are a number of black people who would detest your coworker. They bitterly dislike biracial children and think that black people who have mixed-race children secretly hate themselves. Only real black people marry other black people, they claim.

They’re very much against the whole ‘making biracial babies’ thing and consider it to be a form of self-hatred and so on. As a black man, I’m not going to dismiss their theories out of hand, but I’ve always thought it’s kinda weird when other black people force themselves to marry black people on the credit that they don’t want to be ‘outed’ as a ‘fake black person’.

If you’re a black person and you marry another black person on their own merit, that’s more than okay with me, but I think that if you do it merely because of a directive, you are probably making a mistake. I prefer not to involve myself in their choices, at any rate, because the whole interracial sex thing is a huge, ugly point of contention in the black community.

It’s funny, because white supremacists think that black people are universally okay with interracial sex. Pro Tip: They aren’t, actually, and no small amount of black people openly decry it.

And you don’t have to take my word for it – just take a peep at the books written by black people that elucidate on the Evils of Interracial Sex, and how having babies with a non-black person is like renouncing your Black Card.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Oh my gosh! They’re just compliments! Be grateful that we want to f*** you! Don’t get so emotional! Ugh men! Amirite ladies!? They get so mangry when we ignore them but when we give them compliments or say we want to f*** them they still get mangry and whine with their victim complexes and s***! They don’t know what they want! They should go back to the garage and fix our cars!

Well fine then! I’ll become a WGHOW woman going her own way!

Ok all jokes aside, racism is super bad (huge understatement) but D**kospherians are such hypocrites.

And yeah that’s right I’ll waste my entire time and life with a guy I don’t like, sleep with him then get pregnant and dump him and go through court for him to send at least probably some of his money that barely pays the bills and food, genius /S

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
6 years ago

It’s amazing how these little rascals see children as something only women have. I mean, even paying for the survival and wellfare of your OWN offspring to them is some sort of women’s get rich quick scheme.

If I was as into bullshit biology as these lads tend to be, I’d say it’s nature’s way of giving their young worse chance of survival because their fathers are too thick to make sure their genes will make it in the pool.

How many child support millionaires do you know? Howabout women who got wealthy simply by becoming single parents?

These men see giving anything to anyone else – even their own child – as some sort of an unfair scheme. The pinnacle of entitlement, selfishness and immaturity.

And that whole breeding stock thing, I’m not even touching that. It smells of victim complex so badly I’d need a hazmat suit to approach it.

Alpine, RN
Alpine, RN
6 years ago

When I hear someone saying “omg I would have So-And-So’s baby in a heartbeat” its usually…not a racial thing, its a “finds this celebrity hot” thing…like “I would so have Gerard Butler’s Scottish babies”…I didn’t think they were fetishizing the Scots…

mockingbird
mockingbird
6 years ago

It’s funny, because white supremacists think that black people are universally okay with interracial sex. Pro Tip: They aren’t, actually, and no small amount of black people openly decry it.

I have never in my life gotten as many hate-glares as when I accompanied a black guy friend to a museum in DC while we were in college.
We weren’t “together” – he just didn’t want to go alone and I didn’t have anything to do that day and had never been to that particular art museum.
We weren’t holding hands. We weren’t even walking particularly close together. We were just walking and talking as friends.
And if old black women could kill with a thought, I’d have died scores of times.

I get their anger – I mean, not on a visceral level, but I think that I understand the historical and contemporary social contexts underlying it – but the directed vehemence was still a surprise to me.

I’ll fully admit my privilege by saying that that was the first time I’d been individually subjected to such depersonalized hatred.

My friend’s reaction?
“Yeah. It happens.”
By the way he clenched his jaw it really seemed to piss him off, though.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Lol, yeah, I’m not seeing “I’d so have his babies” as some massive scheme involving breed stock so much as women realizing that having babies is a rather large commitment and going “he’s hot enough I’d totally do it”. I may be off on the actual reasoning, making babies isn’t a thing I intend to do, but still, no massive scheme, just “daaaamn is he good looking”.

Speaking of cats… mine still hate each other. Or more accurately, our resident cat has decided that I’m to blame for this newcomer invading her basement, so she’ll hiss at me. Basement Cat continues to be a complete sweetheart whose reaction to the dog sniffing the door less than a foot from her is to look at me — “you’ve got this, right human?” I’m glad someone involved trusts me, cuz the other cat sure as shit doesn’t!

Friendly Neighborhood Dragon Arthur
Friendly Neighborhood Dragon Arthur
6 years ago

I’m not sure what to say about this, because I’m someone who would rather be in an interracial relationship as opposed to dating someone within in my own ethnic group. It’s rather complicated to explain.

However, I don’t think people actually sit down and think about what kinds of kids they’d have when they start mixing races. On one hand, that just devalues the importance of the child because people aren’t objects. On the other hand, as people have mentioned, mixed-race kids get bullied more often and have to put with more crap than they should.

But as for a this manospherian feeling “objectified” or being judged on sex appeal? Oh boo-hoo… It happens to women every day, and then there’s guys like me who get mocked constantly because we don’t act ultra-macho. If you don’t like it, maybe you shouldn’t objectify yourself…

Judas Peckerwood
6 years ago

@mockingbird

I have never in my life gotten as many hate-glares as when I accompanied a black guy friend to a museum in DC while we were in college.

I hear you. As a white dude, DC is the only place I’ve ever experienced overt racism — some of it violently threatening — all of it when I was out in public with my African American girlfriends. The shit that total strangers felt was appropriate to shout out in public was absolutely mind-blowing.

Ellesar
Ellesar
6 years ago

On the subject of choosing characteristics and sperm donors I would like to put my penn’orth in. I have had two kids vis anon donor (no further contact – those men have never had to pay a penny in child support), and I asked NOTHING about any physical characteristics at all. This was after a long convo with my mother who felt that that sort of selection was disrespecting the man’s gift, and though I did not think of it quite like that I did see how horrible it could get with peeps getting very ‘designer’ about it.

Both donors turned out to be very similar to me, superficially, but the first donor I didn’t even see a photo of until years later, so my child could have been biracial and I didn’t know.

The kind of racism under discussion here is particularly common amongst a certain kind of young liberal woman, keen to show how utterly non racist she is, but I have heard it from men too. I have also heard of white women who favoured their darker children, particularly bad in one family where the lightest child was scapegoated by the entire family.

But yes, as most others have said these are not frequent occurrences – I haven’t heard any of it for years.

katz
6 years ago

Argenti: Cats take a long time to warm up to each other. The number I’ve heard is 1 month for every year of the cat’s age, so, for instance, if your resident cat is a senior, it might take a year or longer.

Kat
Kat
6 years ago

Any guy willing to fall into that sort of trap can make his own choices (like they have much free will in the first place) but still, or fucks sake…

(Emphasis added.)

WTF dude?

Are men that weak-minded?

Pffft.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Katz — our resident is eight or thereabouts, no clue on our stray. Vet guessed 5~ but with the state of her teeth, no way to be sure. Just had an interesting encounter though, dog outside, resident asleep in mom’s room behind a closed door (her food and litter and such are in there, she’s totally had her usual safe space as hers throughout this)… so I’m sitting on the top step up from the basement with Cali and my father points out that I could open the door… so I did. Much cautious exploring occurred! I had to scoop her when she went up the stairs cuz holy fuck would I be deader than dead if they got into a growling fit on either side of mom’s door while she’s sleeping! But yeah, tentative acceptance of her new house!

Now, let’s see how much our resident flips about this invader having been on Her Couch >.<

(For extra bonus awesome? Dog came back in right after I returned with her to her basement, he sniffed the door a bit and then walked away! Yeah, someone got a dog biscuit for his good behavior!)

TL;DR: it’s actually going fairly well other than our resident cat having been dubbed “her hissing highness”.

Eta — I rigged up a break away lanyard (for humans, keys and such) with one side on either side of the door, figure maybe the cats will find a fun toy out of it.

Tralala
Tralala
6 years ago

We have a unreliable narrator from his first three words:

“I know women”

Oh, no you don’t.

msexceptiontotherule
6 years ago

@bluecat

Your maths are complex….and strangely alluring. *bats eyelashes*

“So, like, can I compare my math homework answers with yours? I might have gotten a few wrong and I don’t want to turn the assignment in that way because grades are important and all.” *leans over, shows cleavage, does little shimmy pretending to adjust* 😉

I am kind of curious about there being a possibility for people to be allergic to babies. Would it also be possible for babies to be allergic to people? I’ve come across one baby that clearly wanted nothing to do with anyone over the age of 10, to such an extent that pouring itself backwards to fall out of adult arms regardless of glass coffee tables or kitchen tile floors that awaited said baby happened with alarming frequency. That baby seemed allergic even to its own biological parentage! Might have been the mom’s habit of chasing crawling baby around to squeeze baby butt – much to the consternation of what became a pretty fast moving baby. Only the screeching of her older child provided enough baby-saving distraction. Sammie and Britney, if you’re reading this out there someplace, I hope you quit the screaming, free-falling back flips, biting, and eventually got better at taking naps than you were when I babysat you. Your mom was weird and she probably has some photos that you wouldn’t want anyone you were interested in romantically to see – trust me, all moms have those photos of their kids.

Frank Torpedo
6 years ago

@Mockingbird
@Judas Peckerwood

Hilariously, the MGTOWs and MRAs white males who are always crying about black men taking they wimmenz intersect nicely with the black people who hate interracial pairings.

They should form a coalition to prevent Black Bulls from Cucking Their Wimmenz, and vice-versa.

I have never in my life gotten as many hate-glares as when I accompanied a black guy friend to a museum in DC while we were in college.
We weren’t “together” – he just didn’t want to go alone and I didn’t have anything to do that day and had never been to that particular art museum.
We weren’t holding hands. We weren’t even walking particularly close together. We were just walking and talking as friends.
And if old black women could kill with a thought, I’d have died scores of times.

Yes, this sounds quite familiar.

I guarantee you that those black women probably thought you were married to him, or something.

Anyway, now you’ll understand the jokes black male comedians make about how black women flip the fuck out when they see a black man with a white female.

Out of curiosity, now that you’ve experienced that, would you say it has soured you from dating black dudes, or nah? Assuming you swing that way, that is – I realize I’m making a huuuuuuge assumption by saying that. 😛

Michael Brew
Michael Brew
6 years ago

I think I’ve heard a woman make a comment along these lines once in my life, way back in high school. She apparently dated exclusively Asian men because, as she explained, she found their facial structure fascinating and also she wanted her children to be intelligent. Still not exactly common and, further, I don’t even think having a preference – no matter how racist or otherwise prejudiced – for a partner based on what you think your kids might be like necessarily equates with using them for “breeding stock.”

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Still not exactly common and, further, I don’t even think having a preference – no matter how racist or otherwise prejudiced – for a partner based on what you think your kids might be like necessarily equates with using them for “breeding stock.”

It occurs to me that I do have something on topic to say! I’ve got the red hair gene, but am mostly a boring brunette… given otherwise completely identical baby making partners, I’d go for the red head for the 50/50 chance of having a ginger kid. Now, I don’t keep a breeding stock of gingers, nor do I exclusively date gingers (come to think of it, I don’t think any of my ex’s were redheads, one has a red headed brother though, so I guess the gene was there)

So yeah, “it’d be cool if my kid had [some trait]” =/= breeding stock. That’s just silly. I do have a breeding stock, and I need to go shopping for some new material… but those are snails for feeding my puffer fish! I guess they got it right that anything viewed as “breeding stock” kinda has to have its objective worth ignored, but other than that? No, and I’m not even sure on that… I give a stay of execution via fish to snails that poke their eyestalks out at me, breeding them as food is a way weirder thing than any “I want to fuck this person” relationship ever could be!

Note to passing trolls: no, I am not calling men snails, nor saying I wish to eat them (nor saying I’d let Puff eat them). But I am saying that I like redheads.

In less absurd things, would you guys believe Puff is like 3″ now?! My little grape sized fishie is all grown up!

LindsayIrene
6 years ago

What MGTOW-Redditor dude doesn’t know is that all the women in his town are time-travellers sent from a future devoid of men. They must get knocked up to save our species, dammit!

Frank Torpedo
6 years ago

@Argenti

It occurs to me that I do have something on topic to say! I’ve got the red hair gene, but am mostly a boring brunette… given otherwise completely identical baby making partners, I’d go for the red head for the 50/50 chance of having a ginger kid. Now, I don’t keep a breeding stock of gingers, nor do I exclusively date gingers (come to think of it, I don’t think any of my ex’s were redheads, one has a red headed brother though, so I guess the gene was there)

Deep! But I think we need to go deeper.

[Inception horn]

How do you feel about interracial partners? Thoughts? Questions? Observations?

Kat
Kat
6 years ago

I’m inclined to agree with Brian: This scenario is worthy of a Twilight Zone episode.

Dude, you’re overhearing dozens of conversations between women who want to use men as breeding stock? Every day? And sometimes these women want to include you in the conversation?

I’m a woman and that would alarm even me.

Get out now!

Or, you know, maybe it’s already too late.

One of those.

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