a new woman to hate misogyny racism reddit

Yeah, well, YOU’RE the real racists and misogynists, one Ellen Pao hater declares

No racism here! Screenshot from an anti-PAo video.
No racism here! Screenshot from an anti-Pao video.

The misogyny of many of those who badgered Ellen Pao out of her CEO position at Reddit was about as subtle as an explosive fart at a dinner party. And it’s not exactly difficult to find evidence of widespread racism directed at her as well.

There was the whole “Chairman Pao” thing, for example, and the blatantly racist “humor” that it unleashed:




And, yes, it gets even worse than that (link very much NSFW).

But some of Pao’s more, well, imaginative detractors, it’s Pao’s defenders who are the real racists and misogynists.

A blogger by the name of Blixkrogg, a self-described “rational freak,” puts it this way:

Ellen Pao was ousted for incompetence. It didn’t matter whether she was Asian-American or had a vagina. Excusing incompetence and having a lower level of expectation just because someone’s Asian or a woman is condescending prejudice. Arguing that she should have stayed CEO despite her competence is the actual racism and misogyny.

Also, black is white and night is day and the car alarm going off outside my apartment is not annoying.

So the #RedditRevolt was about “incompetence?”

If you want to see the real incompetence at Reddit, look at the way in which the powers that be at Reddit allowed their site to be used to disseminate child porn and stolen celebrity nudes. Look at the toxic culture of hate and harassment that their tolerance of blatantly hateful subreddits has allowed to flourish — so much so that white supremacists have started using Reddit as a hunting ground for new members.

Pao’s detractors aren’t angry about the toxic wasteland that Reddit has become — and in some ways always has been. They’re angry at Pao because of the tiny steps she was taking to try to clean up the worst of that mess — by banning the FatPeopleHate subreddit and a few others that were actively harassing people.

The powers that be at Reddit have now made it abundantly clear that they can be bullied by the hate mob that their policies have essentially created. Setting that precedent seems like a pretty incompetent thing to do, if you ask me.


96 replies on “Yeah, well, YOU’RE the real racists and misogynists, one Ellen Pao hater declares”

@Paradoxical Intention:

My thoughts exactly. Of course they’d go, “NO, U!”

Honestly, that lame “defense” is so old. Just like those who hate on people hating certain books because “you only hate it because it’s popular/the cool thing to hate right now”.

I swear, you might as well write a script for every conversation like that.

“Fundamentally, the only reason there are dollars to be made from Reddit is through exploiting the fedora-wearing jackasses’ freely-given labor.”

Bullshit. The assholes posting this bile aren’t moderators, and the community doesn’t keep the servers running. The people posting this garbage are just loud, self-important complainers like yourself who think making internet comments constitutes “labor.”

“But I should have been a bite more clear that I considered the statements dubious; that was meant to be a pretty big “if” in my question, since I don’t know how much of their statements were intended to line up with fact (obviously, there was no conspiracy to get the old founders back in the job – but I don’t know if they really were able to get Conde Nast back to minority shareholder or not). I also seem to have read a bit more into than was intended, since it only seems to imply that they have the majority of shares between them.”

Thanks for sharing the link. I agree completely with your use of the word “dubious.”

If they undermine the moderation system, even the few good subs on reddit are going to fall into awfulness. I love creepypms, but the mods there are working around the clock to keep the redpillians, victim blamers, and JAQoffs out. If they lose the ability to delete comments and ban rule breakers, they’ll be overrun in days, and all the good people will go elsewhere.

David’s post yesterday included a heavily-upvoted racist comment by a redditor who turned out to be the moderator of a blatantly racist sub-reddit. I have never joined Reddit and never will, but my understanding is that moderators are basically the members most willing to put in time doing boring work for free. It isn’t some magic status club that excludes the worst of the rabble.

My point was that Reddit is only potentially profitable because they don’t pay moderators. They are hardly noble capitalists fighting the libertarian hordes. It’s assholes wherever you wipe.

I can’t remember where, but I heard recently reddit isn’t poffiatable anyways. So I’m not sure the people tuning it really know that much about business in the first place :p


Thanks for the update on that case. I just cannot figure out what is going with that judge. Those poor children. You would think after the children articulated their reasons for not seeing their father, that the judge would have at least listen to them.

At the risk of a hijack, as a Michigan resident, I’m fairly familiar with the case and multiple people in child services found the children’s behavior very disturbing and indicative of outside influence (and incidentally, William Lansat, the children’s original appointed guardian raised these issues month’s ago not the “Disney Villian” judge and the mother was warned this could happen). I’m sure I’m going to be in for it on this issue but I couldn’t feel more different from the first commentator on this particular issue.

I’ve read the same thing, that there’s some evidence of the mother being a big part of the problem.

But, that still doesn’t make the judge’s actions remotely okay. How does putting them in the juvenile justice system (which is almost as fucked up as the adult system) benefit them in any way? I also find it strange that the father, rather than protesting this ruling, went out of the country for two weeks the next day.

I also don’t think the abuse claims should be dismissed just because he was never charged. It’s pretty common for abusers to never be charged and the victims to never report.

It’s certainly possible both parents in this situation are awful, but I have trouble believing the father is completely innocent and am creeped out by the judge’s fawning over him. The boy who said he witnessed abuse is 15, not 5 and I’m side eyeing the people who think he doesn’t have any agency and is only parroting what the adults say.

The mother could secretly be the worst person in the world, and punishing her kids – ruining their lives by throwing them to the rabid wolves of the prison-industrial complex before two of them have even hit puberty – would still be FUCKED UP.

There are legitimate reasons to take kids away from their parents. Drug abuse problems, abuse, neglect, ongoing DV, other things that put the kids in immediate danger. A fucking bog-standard custody dispute is not one of them.

… I get really twitchy about children not being believed about violence.

Yes, even if both parents are pieces of work, that still doesn’t justify sending the kids to juvenile detention. Talk about screwing them up for life! That 15 year old boy did not violate any laws by not wanting to visit his father. Kids don’t violate custody agreements, adults do. It rises to the level of finding out why the boy didn’t want to see his dad. And by that I mean, a professional comes in to find out why, not a judge who is eager to throw a few kids in jail for “defying” her. And if a 15 year old says he saw one parent hit the other, it behooves the professionals involved to take heed.

My husband and I went through quite a battle with a biologic parent. And it still seethes under the surface–all the worrying, financial drain, stalking, harassment, etc. Our situation* would make any MRAs just salivate, but you know what? Our situation is not representative of what is going on out there as a whole when it comes to custody disputes. Most people figure it out, work it out, and the kids are taken care of. We would never through our lot in with the MRAs because ours is just an extreme example. But, I do know that contentious custody battles can be a quagmire. The worst part is the effect on the children.

*I really don’t want to go too much into it in detail because it sort of triggers quite a bit of anxiety for me. All that we went through was pretty traumatic.

“David’s post yesterday included a heavily-upvoted racist comment by a redditor who turned out to be the moderator of a blatantly racist sub-reddit.”

True. But the racist and hateful trolls that make up the die hards are the dark little secret of the site. They aren’t the mainstream community the corporation wants to show off, like IAMA. Shitlords like DylannStormRoof rule over an angry mass of destructive, entitled man-children.

“My point was that Reddit is only potentially profitable because they don’t pay moderators.”

On this point, we absolutely agree. But the moderators of the profitable subreddits aren’t these racist trolls.

“I can’t remember where, but I heard recently reddit isn’t poffiatable anyways.”

It’s not, which is entirely the point. The company is a sinking ship, and they threw Pao overboard. If they can’t find a way to turn a steady, reliable profit, they’re in trouble.

I see it like this: The noisy trolls are parasites. They glom onto a host website and suck out all the value. Companies listen to them, because they think they’re representative of the community. So they leave the parasites alone as they slowly pollute the community. Eventually, the site decays into a toxic environment. Once there’s nothing left, the parasites move to a new host (e.g. Digg => Reddit.)

@ ThisHandle

Nah, the judge was still out of order. Why are the kids being punished? How the hell can anyone instruct kids to “have a healthy relationship” with someone and then expect them to just get on with it? Why ignore the allegations of abuse?

Even if it’s a foster home and not a detention centre, it’s still not appropriate to remove the kids from the custody of the mother, since it’s common for young children to find sleeping away from their own homes very stressful, even for sleepovers, staying with relatives, etc.

Huddling and refusal to speak sound like signs of distress, but the judge compared them to the Manson cult, to their faces? As for “foot-tapping”, that’s just a normal response to boredom or nervousness, or daydreaming. It’s not a behaviour that merits punishment.

As for their “bad attitude”… I wouldn’t want to talk to the armed deputies either, if I were a kid going through traumatic family upheaval in a courtroom where my every move might be scrutinized, and my siblings and I had already been threatened repeatedly with Borstal.

Then they blame the mother for putting ideas into their heads, despite allegations that the father was violent and threatened the kids directly, and the judge not only takes his side, but acts as a tool of abuse by threatening the kids into co-operating with the father’s wishes?

They consider the bloke to be a “good father”? They consider the mother to be “endangering” the kids by not forcing them to spend time with a guy who clearly distresses them??

Fuck that. The judge is wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter what. That link really does not provide any information that makes me think that the judge made a fair decision. In fact, it’s fairly damning. Every detail just adds to the horror, if you ask me.

Every layer of this case makes for a shit sandwich.

Even when parents are super shitty, kids do better when left in the home.

Yes, this study is about foster care, not juvenile detention, but still. I just don’t see how there’s any way sending these kids to juvie could possibly be preferable to just leaving them with their mom until the dispute gets sorted out.

The judge, similar to MRAs seemed to be viewing the kids as rebelling property, not human beings.

Lessons the Eibschitz-Tsimhoni children will have learned:

You should continue intimate relationship with someone who is violent, scares you, acts threateningly or abusively… no matter how you feel about that person.

A “healthy” relationship is dependent on how much time you spend with the person, on their terms – not on their behaviour towards you.

“Progress” in building a healthy relationship with someone is determined by how satisfied they are with your compliance.

If someone is violent and abusive, it doesn’t count until they have a criminal record unambiguously stating that they are violent and abusive.

You must go alone with the person who distresses you, and who has a position of total power over you, even if you don’t want to, because he owns you and your custody time.

Your response to trauma, including expression of fear, anxiety, distress, discomfort or unhappiness, is unhealthy, uncooperative and warrants punishment. You must not express any of these emotions or advocate for yourself in any way.

The legal system is severe and unfair.

Authority figures will side with your abuser.

The state can separate you from your family and everyone you know. This is punishment for tapping your toes, not wanting to spend time with an abusive person, and having a bad attitude.

Your parents, their lawyers, and several other authority figures are complicit in your harsh treatment.

Your father will leave town for two weeks while you are in custody and leave you to your fate.

Your mother will not be able to protect you.

Your mother is bad for not forcing you to comply with an abusive authority figure against your wishes. She must be planting “toxic” ideas in your head if you attempt to advocate for yourself, despite evidence of actual abuse.

You must always talk to armed strangers. Not responding to intimidating adults shows a “bad attitude”.

Nothing about this case is even remotely ok.

Re: the Eibschitz-Tsimhoni case,

I concur with the general view that no matter who is the better parent, throwing the children into a juvenile facility, and threatening to leave them there for years, is totally fucked up. In the father’s defence, he did request they be released, he could have run with the judge’s decision that they be kept there and only he be allowed to visit.

Sometimes children are alienated from a parent by the other. I did know a woman whose husband won custody and promptly took the children across the country and she didn’t see them for years. But, once the children were old enough they searched her out and re-established contact; kids aren’t as easily brainwashed as people seem to think.

Okay, since the thread is well and truly jacked I’ll respond:

It wasn’t *just* the deputies, it was the numerous people involved in this (as the article I posted mentioned, which was the key part) including the court appointed guardian. By the way, the foot tapping allegations? Supposedly came from the therapists sessions. The problem is that for those siding with the mother to be correct not only does the judge has to be in the wrong, but all the court appointed guardians at the hearing (each child received their own, none of whom objected), the original court appointed guardian (who has nothing to gain by this, and possibly quite a bit to lose, people on the news comments are already calling for him to be banned from ever working with children, its one small jump for someone to start an online movement to have him debarred), and numerous others in the child services all have to be wrong. At a certain point you have to see the number of people who are trained to deal with this saying the same thing and think there’s something to it.

Not going to get into the abuse allegations as allegations that have been investigated and found to be without merit essentially don’t exist (this is a problem with any allegation that never comes to trial, no one can really know).

weirdwoodtreehugger: The article is interesting, however, the issue is that if there is mental programming going on we are put in a bit of a unique situation (and maybe I’m remembering the articles in the Toledo Blade from my youth of the horror stories of kids put back into abusive homes because of exactly the situations the article detailed). I don’t necessarily applaud the judges ruling on this, but its at least a path towards a fix if the issue is present (which people who aren’t her are coming to the conclusion that it was) without rewarding bad behavior. Also, this wouldn’t be an issue if people would fund children and family services the way they should which would present everyone involved with more options. This is not a matter of misbehaving property but, if true, do you allow someone setting out to program rejection to succeed? Why endorse someone seeking to cut out a parent when we’d blame the same parent if they cut themselves out. Of course the ideal situation is to have a juvenile system in place with some kinds of options for this (no idea if its possible, but Michigan has no interest in funding it if it is).

At this point: I have enough respect for the people here that, by all means, whatever response everyone else gives on this will be the last word. I like it here normally (I like to say, I’m not in agreement 100% of the time, but I side with feminism because I agree with around 75%) and realize that anything further I say on this will be counterproductive to me sticking around. I attempted to edit down the more emotional of my responses but if I missed something and failed I am truly sorry.

I’m going to get a little bit off off-topic here, and post this.

Apparently, Victor Zen is claiming that it’s still totally cool that he impersonated a janitor and snuck into a women’s bathroom to plaster anti-feminist stickers all over the place.

He then made a transmisogynistic comment about how “non-cis men get to go into those bathrooms all the time!”, to which someone pointed out that there are laws that make it so they have to use those restrooms, and then he just goes “Well, I didn’t identify as cis that day, so I win! : D”

What a disgusting human being.

That awkward moment when you’re a leftist libertarian and the comments keep equating your opinions with capitalism.

*slow clap*

Honestly Reddit is a hive of scum and villainy and it’s ridiculous that they can bully the CEO out of a job. But actually look up the definition of the terms you use.

Libertarianism and Authoritarianism are on opposite ends and Left and Right go across them.

I support Healthcare, workers rights and the responsibility of the Government to care for it’s citizens. I don’t support the Governments right to control it’s citizens or completely dismantle meritocracy. As I believe that human beings are both communal and individual and do not thrive at the end of either extreme.

Capital-L Libertarian, not libertarian. Capital-L Libertarian refers very specifically to the far-right, objectivist, “I’m not a Republican but…” Ayn Rand/Rand Paul/Paul Ryan wing of the GOP.

They aren’t trolling her very well . I mean the “NSFW” picture obviously was a doctored picture. You’d think they would have something she actually did/said to embarrass her instead of making something up out of thin air.


wow, what a story.

It’s ironic that she killed him for repeatedly trying to force her into prostitution. Often when Turkish women flee abusive marriages, their children are told that their mother has run away to become a prostitute, many women are subsequently murdered by family members to ‘restore honor’.

I think the fact he was trying to pimp her out is what will gain her public sympathy more than the fact he was beating her.

The only way the MRAs will go near this is if they can convince themselves that she’s lying.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)says:

It’s ironic that she killed him for repeatedly

Hey, you have to admit, most guys like her husband deserve multiple deaths. /jk

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)says:


Excuse: It’s 2am and I went to bed at 5am yesterday(?) and woke up at 9am so, I mean, pfft.

@ This Handle – Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off as abrasive, but everything that judge is reported as having said made me think of Dolores Umbridge.

I don’t think any therapist worth a damn would consider foot-tapping in a child to be a severe indication of anything, and for children to be compared to Manson and branded as some sinister, wicked maladapts, without anyone apparently asking the children what they think about any of the stuff that affects them… it just strikes me as totally unethical.

I don’t care how many therapists, lawyers, or courtroom officials thought the handling of the case was appropriate. There’s an entire institution that continues to use electric shock collars on kids for much the same behaviours, despite legal interventions. I wouldn’t assume that the treatment of these kids is ok just because multiple adults had to have made the same failings.


Reddit’s been worse than 4Chan for years. At least 4Chan removes and bans child porn without media/law enforcement intervention.

This is not a matter of misbehaving property but, if true, do you allow someone setting out to program rejection to succeed? Why endorse someone seeking to cut out a parent when we’d blame the same parent if they cut themselves out…

To be perfectly honest, if I were in that situation then yes, I would allow it to happen. Because if it comes down to a choice between

a)having my children jailed, demeaned and forced to spend time with me or
b)them thinking I’m an awful person

the second is always the preferable option

Over here courts recognise that once kids develop a certain level of autonomy they’ll “vote with their feet” about contact anyway.

In cases of parental alienation it’s obviously tricky. Where very young children are involved the courts will often leave the child with the alienating parent but order that when the child is old enough the child is given the court file, and can then make up their own mind about whether they want to get back in touch with the alienated parent.

That’s obviously a less than desirable practice (“Happy Birthday. Oh by the way your mum/dad didn’t really run off with the milkman.”) but it’s making the best of a horrible situation.

Regarding the Michigan case: There are obviously some people who should not have children, and it appears that at least one of the parents in this case qualifies for that category. (I have learned over the years that newspaper articles etc. are often seriously inaccurate — reasonable inferences drawn from them can be wildly wrong.) However, the judge in this case seems to have lost her temper and gone seriously wrong, almost to tantrum level — it seems as if, with a bit of creativity and a lot less anger, it should have been possible to come up with a much better solution. We pay judges for — among other things — not getting frustrated and angry easily.

Regarding Ellen Pao, I read the Vanity Fair article from 2013 about the problems she and her husband are having ( I am inclined to believe that her sex discrimination case is by and large justified — Silicon Valley sometimes seems like a cesspool of Men Behaving Badly. But this remark struck me::

“Most of us would walk away,” says Rebecca Eisenberg, a Silicon Valley attorney and former counsel to Reddit, “but Ellen is taking a stand. The Valley is a very sexist place, and women here put up with it because that’s what we have to do to get a piece of the millions that you make here. It’s not like Walmart, where, if a woman is discriminated against, it’s maybe $20,000 at stake. Here it’s $20 million.”

Think about this for a moment. $20 million for Ellen Pao means having a fourth palatial home or having his-and-hers Lear jets. For the Walmart woman, it may well mean being able to send your kid to the dentist or being able to afford a reliable car that won’t break down when you drive through a bad part of town coming home at 2 AM. Think about the massive amount of condescension, sense of entitlement, and lack of ability to see Walmart workers as people that this comment demonstrates. People like that feel that the value of humans can be measured by their salaries — that they are actually WORTH a thousand times as much as a Walmart worker.

Obviously the abuse Pao has suffered is outrageous. But is anyone shocked that the guys on Reddit reacted like this? I have never visited Reddit myself — I don’t particularly enjoy swimming in a cesspool — and just about all I know about Reddit comes from reading WHTM. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that Pao took the job knowing that Reddit is a cesspool, and that she took it mainly for money and power, which makes her complicit in the shit Reddit does. I can’t think that she seriously believed she was going to clean the place up beyond maybe curtailing some of the worst of the worst. I don’t believe for a moment that she was naive enough to think she could swim in a cesspool and come out smelling like freshly picked lilacs, let alone that she could make the cesspool smell like lilacs.

@GOSJM – I’ll agree with you about the attorney’s classism in not recognizing the scale of $20,000 to the life of a Walmart employee. It’s still appropriate to file a discrimination lawsuit where discrimination has occurred, though. None of that is Pao’s fault.

And Pao probably did know the nature of Reddit before she stepped into the job role, but the fact that she managed to ban *any* of the harassing subreddits in her 7 months is something she can be proud of. I don’t think she reasonably expected to get rid of all the vile racism, etc that makes up a huge swath of Reddit, but she got rid of groups that were specifically harassing people, so that is something.

She smells better than any of Reddit’s other higher-ups in my estimation.

“It’s still appropriate to file a discrimination lawsuit where discrimination has occurred, though.”
“She smells better than any of Reddit’s other higher-ups in my estimation.”

Yeah, I’ll buy both of those comments. Sex discrimination should cost you, even if your victim is not perfect.
But smelling better than Reddit’s other higher-ups is not a very high bar. if someone told me that I smelled better than Paul Elam or Dean Esmay, I’m not sure I’d tale it as a compliment.

And the whole mess, I think, is a sad commentary on the sort of people our economic system has chosen to reward with huge wealth. I’m not disposed to give Pao MUCH credit for pumping a gallon or two of filth out of a huge cesspool.

I am. At least she tried. Every other CEO just wants to make it worse.

I’m not sure I believe she even tried. I think she was enacting edicts from on high, and was put in the position specifically because they knew the racist, misogynistic shitheels that are their customer base would heap all the blame on her for everything.

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