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Manosphere Cat Fight Highlights: The Aftermath (Of Nothing Happening)

The He-Man Manosphere Cat Fight Continues! The long-awaited 20/20 story on the Manosphere did not, alas, run as scheduled last night — it’s been postponed until who knows when — but the Men’s Rightsy infighting it inspired continues!

Yesterday, you may recall, the Spearhead’s WF Price called out A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam for his alleged naiveté in going on the show in the first place, and for generally being a shitty backstabbing narcissistic asshole — all fair enough criticisms.

Well now Elam and his AVFM attack squad have responded to Price’s attack in the comments on the Spearhead– as various Spearhead readers have stepped forward to offer their own thoughts on Elam, many of them even less flattering than Price’s screed.

Elam, in his response, tried his best to affect a tone of Olympian condescension:

Wow, Bill, this is pretty sad.

But hardly surprising given the nature of so many men.

These days I normally would not bother responding to this kind of thing, but I do respect a lot of the work that has been done here. The Spearhead has been a very important part of advancing badly needed counter-theory. Still, I personally think my actions deserve better than the skewed, half-baked interpretation you just fed your readers. It actually embarrasses me for you.

He went on to suggest that the “man-o-sphere” that he had explicitly tried to divorce himself from — in a post entitled “Adios, c-ya, good-bye man-o-sphere,” no less — doesn’t really exist, and that getting bad publicity from the 20/20 story was part of his plan all along.

AVFM is moving on according to plan. The banner I placed to The Spearhead on the top of the home page will remain despite the fact that I think this article was a chickenshit move by someone who wants to distance himself to avoid flak for which he never had the stomach in the first place.

Price wasn’t buying any of his false magnanimity. Responding to another commenter suggesting that he had “stabbed AVfM in the back,” he wrote:

You are delusional. I have watched Paul shit on people for years, and finally I’ve had enough. I saw clearly with his scheme to impugn others right when he goes live on TV that he meant to stab everyone else in the back to position himself as better than the other folks just as we are all about to get crapped on.

You MHRM people have your place. Please, stay there so I don’t have to be associated with it.

There are a number of other, well, memorable comments in the thread.

3DShooter offered these thoughts on Elam’s leadership abilities:

I once thought quite highly of E-lame, until I eventually had a private email disagreement with him. His utter lack of rationality and profuse use of uncalled for foul language showed him for the little man that he really is (and you can almost see the spittle dripping from his chin in his response to this article really Paul, ‘chickenshit’ – ya know ya really wanted to drop the f-bomb like you do when no one’s looking). Frankly, the MRM’s probably lucky he didn’t go off on one of his foul mouthed rants on camera.

If there can be such a thing as a ‘leader’ in the MRM, E-lame isn’t it. Maybe this will give E-lame an opportunity to reflect on why it is important to not be so quick to turn on others – eh, I don’t think he has it in him.

In keeping with the unwritten manosphere rule that whenever people within the manosphere actually step up to criticize one another they generally do so for the completely wrong reason, assorted commenters attacked A Voice for Men for allowing women into its little clubhouse, and a few accused Elam of possibly being some sort of a mangina or even a feminist. Anonymous Reader put it this way:

More and more, AVfM appears to be heading down the path of the Good Mangina Project – co-option by conservative feminists … is proceeding onward. In time, Elam will likely be surprised to be kicked out of his own organization, just as Tom was at the Mangina Project.

Because of the known 4:1 preference that women have for other women in organizations, allowing any woman to have any authority in a group like AVfM sets in motion the long term destruction of the group.

Paul Elam unhappily has been a beta all along.

And then there was the always baffling joeb, with this bit of conspiracy-theorizing:

Some of the garbage I see from AVFM would be considered by some businessmen if it was there interest as nothing short of Machiavellian

From the last encounter with the gays in Toronto” witch to me seemed scripted ,( I have good reason ) Too giving a American Traditional institution like 20/20 a chance to push Man up on the population Throw what will be code blue shaming tactics is unforgivable .

This could set back the Manusphere two or three year . With the recent offspring Mgtow claiming popularity its going to kill membership . Hope the best and prepare for the worst is what I always say . Whatever happens I think It would be a really Really good Idea for all of us to saturate the net for the next few weeks , Taking advantage of ether Lindsey Lohan press or Good Press its all the same .

Oh, Manosphere, My Manosphere: in the sheer weirdness department you never disappoint!

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Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

rjjspesh, I find Uncle Elmer’s comment wondrously ironic, given how frequently the enlightened lads over at r/mensrights appropriate the experiences of black men to “prove” that feminists, whom they compare to White Supremacists regularly, are oppressing white men.

Brooked
Brooked
8 years ago

“That, and calling themselves the men’s “human” rights movement are both weak and risible attempts at emotional manipulation. Human rights doesn’t literally mean what it says; it means when the Cathedral wants to do something, the Cathedral feels morally compelled to do it, and justified in screwing whoever’s in the way. Do Boers have “human rights”? Don’t be absurd. Neither do we. It’s like the Voting Rights Act: it doesn’t say in the text that white people don’t have voting rights, but the lawyers at the DOJ who enforce it will laugh at you if you’re white and you want to bring a case.”

This Spearhead post adds a nice international flavor to the White Nationalism, giving a shout out to oppressed white South Africans before saying something impossibly stupid about the Voting Rights Act.

(No idea what “cathedral” refers to.)

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

it doesn’t say in the text that white people don’t have voting rights, but the lawyers at the DOJ who enforce it will laugh at you if you’re white and you want to bring a case.”

I just…I…the stupid, it’s burning. I know he seriously, hand-to-god wonders why there’s no white history month.

Perry
Perry
8 years ago

MRAs hate everyone. They may rant and rave more about women on the Internet, but they hate everyone – men, women and themselves.

ceebarks
ceebarks
8 years ago

“the Cathedral” means “the Establishment” as coopted by cultural-marxist-feminist-anti-racist-pc forces.

I think Mencius Moldbug invented that one.

(goddamnit I read a lot of weird useless crap on the internets)

ceebarks
ceebarks
8 years ago

Is Mencius still around? I remember watching the post-Keynesians thrash an Austrian maturity transformation post of his, then, to his credit, he got quiet, and then I quit reading.

Brooked
Brooked
8 years ago

MISCAUCASIANRY

Cloudiah for the win!

kittehserf
8 years ago

I wonder if Google Translate could turn Joeb into English? I couldn’t make head nor tail of that garble.

For the rest – ah, bring the popcorn, this is precious. Must say I liked 3DShooter’s comment about spittle.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’m not sure that even the most highly trained translator working around the clock could turn that comment into something comprehensible in any known language. Wow. Is he speaking in tongues?

baileyrenee
baileyrenee
8 years ago

That kitten video is absolutely perfect! Two sites in the manosphere have a weak, pathetic little fight, while onlookers vomit. Amazing.

kittehserf
8 years ago

Cassandra – twisted tongues, in his case. Also known as the language of Lolwut.

becausescience
becausescience
8 years ago

I’m curious if any of these websites have contingency plans for when someone goes off the deep end Anders Breivik style

“When someone goes off the deep end”? Surely, he must mean “if it happens again”. Breivik was an anti-feminist. While anti-feminism wasn’t the sole motivating factor, his anti-feminist views were important enough to his ideology that he included them in his manifesto.

Then there’s Marc Lepine, Thomas Ball, George Sodini, possibly others I’m not aware of. There are already men drawn to anti-feminist ideas who think murder is an acceptable way to get their way. It’s not a hypothetical “something that could happen someday”, it’s the current reality of the manosphere and the type of men it attracts.

La Strega
8 years ago

Given what ABC actually aired last night in lieu of the planned manosphere expose, I’m back speculating that they pulled the show in response to the flack it was generating. Maybe they read the comments and are reevaluating their approach. Maybe the comments will be part of how they assess the manosphere when they do air it.

kittehserf
8 years ago

What did they air, La Strega? I’m tempted to think “anything at all is more important/interestng than these morons” could be part of the thinking.

La Strega
8 years ago

It was one of those “true crime” stories (a mother dogs police to do their job in proving her her daughter didn’t commit suicide but was in fact murdered by her fiance). I didn’t watch it. These kinds of stories are a dime a dozen, and basically television filler. There was nothing urgent or timely about the subject.

MordsithJ
8 years ago

Maybe the comments will be part of how they assess the manosphere when they do air it.

That’s what I was thinking. They may have seen the comments, realized they had an entertainment goldmine, and sent the segment back for some serious reediting.

AK
AK
8 years ago

It was one of those “true crime” stories (a mother dogs police to do their job in proving her her daughter didn’t commit suicide but was in fact murdered by her fiance). I didn’t watch it. These kinds of stories are a dime a dozen, and basically television filler. There was nothing urgent or timely about the subject.

My understanding is that that story had been delayed a week or two ago due to breaking news and so was being aired last night instead. It wasn’t the breaking news itself.

I still would be absolutely shocked if 20/20 pulled the segment due to harassment. As someone mentioned in the thread yesterday (Brooked, maybe? sorry, too lazy to go look it up, I’m waiting in the hospital and internet connection is sketchy!), 20/20 has done unflattering stories on Scientology, and Scientologists are the absolute masters at harassing journalists.

I mean, I don’t exactly consider 20/20 to be hard-hitting journalism or anything, but the story was just postponed, not canceled, and MRA harassment is troubling for individuals but nothing that will get a story pulled from a national news program. Also, if they did their research at all they had to be prepared for it–wasn’t Sarkeesian interviewed pretty much *because* she suffered such extreme harassment from them?

AK
AK
8 years ago

edit: also, apparently I can’t read. Sorry, I’m here with my brother who apparently has a heart condition no one (himself included) knew about and he’s in cardiac ICU (no visitors, hence me sitting in the waiting room killing time), so a bit distracted. It wouldn’t surprise me if they wind up including information about the harassment in the segment when it does air, although I’d still doubt that’s the sole reason they postponed it.

serrana
8 years ago

AK, I am so sorry to hear about your brother! I hope makes it through okay.

kittehserf
8 years ago

AK, so sorry, I hope your brother will be okay!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

AK: I hope your brother pulls through.

cloudiah
8 years ago

AK: I hope and trust that your brother will be okay. Any cardiac events are scary, but they can do such amazing things these days. Hope he’s out of ICU soon and doing well.

Marie
8 years ago

@AK

God, that sucks 🙁 I hope your brother will be okay. Internet hugs, if you want them.

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