Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.
Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!
This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.
Happy discussing!
Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.
@Argenti – you don’t make arguments against me, you just waaaaah!
In case anyone couldn’t be bothered to read through the wall of text, this is the bit I’m referencing.
Um, wow.
@Joe Your framing of causes and types of domestic violence between men and women is a bit thin. You can’t say “40/60 split” like that and think there is any equivalence between the two. If you are as interested in domestic violence issues as you appear, I’m guessing you know this. You either don’t think these differences matter (they do), or you’re being disingenuous.
I mean, I’ve seen people act like men and women are a different species before, but this is the first time I’ve seen someone suggest we’re not even part of the same genus. You expect people to take you seriously after you say stuff like that?
@archaeoholms
So domestic violence is 100% men beating women and only women? The only aspect of domestic violence is heterosexual men beating heterosexual women?
(Note the hyperbole here…..you can bet on where this is going)
@gnl You can put forward a respectful argument to me, or just don’t talk to me at all. I’ll only say this once: I’m happy to talk if you address what I said, but I’m not going to waste my time with stupid answers like the one you just gave.
@Joe
LOL oh dear
GNL:
What do you want? Apparently not equality.
What are you doing about it? Running for office. Ok, what are your platform goals… not equal pay for equal work. Not better workplace safety. The,”men can abandon their kids or women denied the pill platform”? If so I see why you lost.
If you can’t compromise then you are doomed, esp. since, “men and women can’t be equal” is a shitty start point.
Because telling women they are second class citizens… not open for debate. Men and women are equal stakeholder. They get equal rights. If that means men lose some privilege, that’s fine with me, becaus the end state is just.
My opening position is “I’ve got no clue, what do you think”
Bullshit. Here’s your opening position:
Your follow up position is that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is refusing to listen.
That’s also not true. I listened. I rejected the conclusion.
You, on the other hand, have refused to listen.
You refused to listen to the argument that workplace deaths; in the same lines of work, are equivalent, and so the goal of reducing all workplace deaths is good for men.
You don’t belive in equality. We do. That’s a fundamental, and pretty much irreconcilable difference.
Dogs are Canidae and oaks are from from Quercus. It’s the new self-help book from Wow You’re Completely Batshit publishing.
GNL: So domestic violence is 100% men beating women and only women? The only aspect of domestic violence is heterosexual men beating heterosexual women?
That’s not what archaeoholmes said. What he said was Uncle Joe was misrepresenting the facts.
He’s running for office? Oh how I wish his campaign speeches could be televised. I’d buy chips and salsa and throw a party just for the lulz.
How that implies victim-blaming beyond me.
is*
@archaeoholmes
But hurt cause you know you can’t “win” It is clear that any boob on this thread is more interested in word games than actual content. So let the games continue. And just for fun, I’m going to assume that silence means you can’t answer in a way that doesn’t support the MRM. (and I’m assuming this because it’s true, not just because I feel like annoying you)
@pecunium
did you miss the very next line about it being hyperbolic?
Gotta say, it’s nice that all the trolls are staying in the troll thread. Very considerate.
Eh, we still have a certain creeper stinking up the other thread.
True, but all the JAQoffs are in this thread.
It’s a start!
Did you miss the part that, even as hyperbole I said you were lying?
One asswipe at a time, first come first serve!
“@Argenti – “how the causes should be addressed, particularly the parts related to why men don’t seek help.”
– ^Nice victim blaming there, jerk.
Earl was a victim, he was beaten by his ex-wife. He sought help with all the DV agencies and was turned away because he was a man.”
First, I was talking about suicide, not DV. Second, in what parallel universe is it victim blaming to say that men are socialized to think that seeking psych help proves they are weak?! Dude, I did not say that suicide was what he deserved for buying that load of crap, I said that that load of crap needs to end. Let me make this mind blowing simple, as clearly you are incapable of understanding complex concepts.
Victim blaming — blaming the victim for what happened to them
Saying that some particular form of socialization is bad — not victim blaming
As usual, we’re talking past each other, so gain, let me break this down. Attempting to start anything requiring public funds will be excessively different when public funds are being cut.
Obvious thing is obvious.
I did not say that the cutbacks where proportional, I said that you were ignoring the fact that the economy sucks and that all facets of the safety net are being cut away. Clearly you failed to infer that this means new provisions for a social safety net are not being created.
And btw, feminists have had to fight to get shelters built, they didn’t just fall out of the sky or something. No gov’n just handed them over, and most? all? still run on a shoestring budget.
There just aren’t funds for shelters.
Show of hands, who asked men to build women’s shelters? To make abortion safe and legal? To allow women the right to vote?
Oh right, everyone, because men are the ones with the power to make those changes (go on, claim apex fallacy, we just had a whole thread on that hot mess)
And no dude, Oppression Olympics is debating whether trans* people or disabled people have it worse. Not saying that white cis male is considered the default, that most people in power are white cis men, that fucking everything is structured around your needs. Except apparently DV shelters. You want to scream about not expecting patriarchy to fix women’s problems, you sure as shit don’t get to demand women fix your problems.
Support the men trying to build DV shelters. As they say, put your money where your mouth is.
“Nice one trying to change the subject there. Not.”
He says on the thread specifically created to rant about person hobby horses, that’s just adorable.
Joe, white cis men have it easy in comparison to everyone else, take a dose of get the fuck over it. I was providing examples of the previously mentioned thing (white cis man as default) and, oh yeah, ones form this very thread and thus *drum roll* on topic!
“Why should I care that you’re livid? So what?”
Hard as it may be to believe, that actually wasn’t directed at you in particular. I certainly didn’t expect you to care.
Dude, for about the fourteenth time this thread, not all men need to be advantaged for men as a group to have privilege. It’s a mind blowing simple concept. And do not, do not attempt to appropriate the suicide of someone you never ever heard of before he died to try to prove your tedious point about how privilege doesn’t exist. There was a point, very recently, that I couldn’t go year without someone I knew committing suicide. All men. Hell, all but one where white cis men. You do NOT get to lecture me on how that means white cis men, as a group, are not privileged.
Society’s indifference is to everyone suffering, by and large, men have it easiest. Granted, the mentally ill do not, thus suicidal people are shunned. But that isn’t a factor of gender. It’s, wait for, the first point in this comment!
Privilege is not some magic card your douche canoe. Privilege is not being followed in the store, because your skin has e guard thinking you’re shoplifting; privilege is having the cops take crimes against you seriously (pecunium? That one is your story to tell); privilege is not being told that you shouldn’t “worry your pretty little head off”; by and large, it’s invisible, it’s the things that don’t happen to you.
Oh, I see the other ass wiping has been disposed of, lovely.
“@Argenti – you don’t make arguments against me, you just waaaaah!”
No no, I go waaaah when I jam my finger in the fridge (same one that just healed too [no Joe, that isn’t directed at you])
Arguments are things like how white cis male is considered the default human. How you completely ignore relevant variables like the sucktastic economy. How I’m sick of privileged people flinging shit about how horribly bad they have it, what with the inability to abandon the results of their lack of condom, nor force their partner to abort. While the corollary is that women are stuck either aborting (which should be illegal by some of you dumbasses) or raising a child on their own, or be forced to abort.
@pecunium
You clearly missed where I explained the hyperbole tactic. Here. Let me have both sides of the conversation. It will make it quicker
Arch:It’s not 60/40
Me: So it’s 100% Heteromen beating women.
Arch: I didn’t say that.
Me: well then what is the break down
Arch: [insert low random non-zero number]
Me: Wonderful. So Silverman should have been able to get [random non-zero number]% of the money used to fund shelters for people escaping domestic violence. He could have opened 5 shelters with that much money.
by presenting the hyperbole I force your hand in making the consesion that it’s not 100% gendered, and that treating it that way is wrong. That or you support rape culture by trivializing victims on the basis of gender.
Pecunium — ah, but when those effects do show up! Quite the kick you’ve got!
I should also quote this number
“A 2004 VicHealth landmark study showed that intimate partner violence is the leading preventable cause of death, disability and illness in Victorian women aged between 15 and 44, higher than heart disease and smoking.”
http://www.vichealth.vic.gov.au/Media-Centre/Media-Releases-by-Topic/Freedom-from-violence/World-leading-VicHealth-nips-violence-in-the-bud.aspx
I recently heard a feminist in Australia suggest that journalists on the crime beat should report cases of domestic violence the same way they report street brawls. The scale of the problem tends to be underestimated by some people.