I spend more time on YouTube than I probably should. Most of the time I’m on the site, I’m tracking down strange and awesome music videos. But I also love cat videos (big surprise), ridiculous fake alien and UFO videos, videos of people behaving in incredibly unwise ways that are somehow not lethal to them, and pretty much anything that’s got Yackety Sax as its soundtrack.
What do MRAs enjoy watching? As far as I can tell, when they’re not watching videos of other MRAs, or flooding the comments of feminist videos, they like watching videos of women getting punched.
How else to explain the hundred-plus upvotes that greeted this brief video – it’s all of 15 seconds long –of a man knocking out a woman who was assaulting him. The video starts with a fight already in progress, as a woman rains blows on a much larger man backed up against a wall at what seems to be a strip mall while her friends shriek in the background. The man, after fending off a number of punches, hits her directly in the face and she drops to the ground.
That’s it. That’s all we know. We don’t know who these people are, what the fight was about, or even who started it.
But to the denizens of the Men’s Rights subreddit, this is a man who is fully justified in using violence against a woman, and they can barely conceal their excitement, posting dozens of comments proclaiming him a sort of Men’s Rights hero.
“Kudos to the guy who stood up to this bullshit,” dalsgaard declares, in a comment that gets dozens of upvotes. “I hope other men will take his example.”
Tim8080 only wishes he’d been there to take part in the punching:
Actually, the man in question isn’t particularly old, and he’s certainly not frail; he’s actually rather large and imposing.
Gus2144 thinks that for some reason gender equality necessarily involves a lot of hitting:
Evidently in that last comment Gus took it a little too far for his Men’s Rights bretheren, and he garnered himself a few downvotes.
But the serious downvoting in the thread was reserved for those who questioned whether or not MRAs should be celebrating the incident captured on video as a grand victory for Men’s Rights.
Indeed, CapnDancyPants won himself more than two dozen downvotes for simply wondering what might have happened before the fifteen seconds shown on the video:
MRAs: If they can’t punch women, they don’t want to be a part of your revolution.
Katz–Okay, mine was mostly a response to thenatfantastic, who did claim that anti-atheist discrimination did not rise to the level needed to be called oppression–which I can understand, since thenatfantastic seemed to be working off anti-trans oppression as a baseline, which does have horrific violence involved, and comparatively anti-atheist discrimination is much less pressing. But I don’t think that excuses saying that systematically discriminating against people who don’t believe in God isn’t an oppression, but I agree that other oppressions might be worse. That, and saying that distrusting people who don’t believe in God is valid because they don’t have any moral compass is wrong and plays into the ideologies behind most of the worse anti-atheist discrimination.
Kim–I think it is more a double standard when it comes to religious beliefs vs. atheism that I was thinking about. More and more religions are accepted, and privileging certain denominations of Christianity by the government is right out, but our money and Pledge of Allegiance make a claim I can’t agree with.
And look what happens when atheists try to run bus ads just saying “We exist and are good people” versus ads for religious denominations (not that I have a problem with religious groups advertising, I just think it is a horrible double standard not to allow atheist groups to do the same).
I’d also argue that arguing about the truth of beliefs and their consequences is allowed, but making generalizations about people that aren’t relating to their beliefs isn’t. For example, saying MRAs are horrible because they believe things that have horrible implications (i.e., would allow domestic violence) is one thing, but saying that people who don’t believe in God are terrible does not follow from our beliefs the same way that saying Christians can’t be trusted because they believe that they can sin and then be forgiven by God.
To be clear, I’m not saying that Christians can’t be trusted–I’m saying that’s an invalid argument, and if it were common it would be part of anti-Christian bias. (It is also one I’ve heard, though generally only lobbies at certain religious groups, often by other Christians.)
Okay, I have a date to watch Wreck-It-Ralph in the living room that I am now late for. I will be back later, though and I know I missed a few things. FWIW, I did not mean “most hated” to mean “most oppressed.” I don’t think those things are at all the same. I don’t think all oppression is caused by hatred anyway.
@katz
There was this, which sets the bar of “oppression” at a level unreachable by women as a group I believe.
And:
Oh, you guys are right about Nat’s comment. I interpreted it more wrt the “hate” aspect (ie, “a hated group is one that suffers hate crimes”), but it does say “oppressed.” My bad.
I’d also argue that anti-atheist prejudice has a weird thing where people don’t actually know what an atheist is, which fuels a lot of the anti-atheist rhetoric but might insulate actual atheists a bit (one of the linked papers says that atheists are often considered either criminal or materialistic, so some individual atheist who doesn’t fit either of those categories might get a pass from individual discrimination). I’d argue that anti-trans or racist discrimination is much less likely to lead to that kind of social pass, though it does happen (i.e.–I hate black people, but you’re not like the rest, so you’re okay). (Sexism is really weird in that way, because generally even the most ardent sexists agree that women have a right to exist and don’t mind being in contact with them.)
The lesson I should derive from this is never to say “no one said X” unless I’ve actually read back all the way and verified that no one actually said X.
@wordsp1nner
I did get what you meant, I just wanted to add the point that some beliefs do deserve to be ridiculed and some do indicate unpleasant things about the person who holds them. But, like everything, they need to be judged on their merits.
Personally I have no respect for religious beliefs, but I do have respect for religious people. I think that the vast majority are good people who would be just as good without any religion. I have no respect for MRA beliefs, and little respect for MRAs because those beliefs are contradictory to being a good person. But even then, I am sure there are some MRAs who are good people who haven’t accepted the whole shebang, because once they understand just what the MRA stand for, they’ll either stop being MRAs, or stop being good people.
Kim – yes, we’ve regulars here who are ex-MRAs or feMRAs.
Indeed, and I actually have extra respect for them. I had the easy road because I was raised as a feminist and to believe in equality so it was just a matter of educating myself further about the ways I was doing equality wrong. But to believe in MRA stuff, or rascism or similar and to think you’re way out of it and develop a good moral philosophy fighting against your influences takes real effort.
Atheists should come to Canada… I’ve seriously never had a non-isolated problem. And I live across the street from a Mennonite church. Just stay away from Alberta and their Wildrose Party…
Kim – hear, hear!
@somegal: thanks 🙂 I mean, I’ve lurked and seen that you guys are nice, but for some reason whenever I get out there I’m like ‘ah, overwhelmed! what if everyone hates me for no reason?” My brain’s weird that way.
@kim: bad dentists 🙁 I haven’t been to the dentist in….gosh I don’t know. A couple years. I used to go every year when she took me, but she lost her job and insurance didn’t cover it, and even now that she has a job again, I still haven’t gotten around to it.*
*technically I should be getting my own job, since I think I can handle at least a part time one when my depression is being good, but the last month+ it’s been super icky.
I know there’s an atheist conversation going on, I just can’t contribute due to not knowing anything about it *shrugs* I was raised an orthodox christian, but starting having trouble believing around 14, getting worse until now. I’ve mostly settled on agnostic. I’d like to go back to church, though, just for the childhood feels, if the church I went to earlier wasn’t full of homophobia and slutshaming 🙁
Marie, you’re very welcome to comment, fear not!
If all else fails you can always chuck in a cute animal vid. They’re never off-topic. 🙂
@kim, somehow missed the last part of your comment
I would love if doctors would let you have an interview. I’m still going to my Pediatrition (sp?) because she’s mostly decent and I really don’t want to have to find a new one, especially w/ anti depressant stuff. Also, when my family was having me see a therapist when I was younger, and later when my mom wanted our whole family to talk to one, there were a million miss ones, at the cost of like 100$ per miss. (this was way before she lost her job.)
@kittehs’ unpaid help:
but here is the only place I find cute animal videos! 😀 I’d be doing repeats.
(or I could try to search for some ball python videos on youtube. Anyone else here think they are the cutest snakes ever? or is that just me XD
Post ’em, post ’em! 😀
YouTube’s where I get all my cute vids. I just google “cute kitten” or “kitten playing” or whatever and start trawling.
You know what else would work for doctors… if they had fairs where all your local doctors sat at booths and you could wander around talking to them.
I got lucky once with a wonderful doctor who I really liked. But then she went off to have a baby. 🙁 I googled her one day and found her again at a different practise, but then she went off to have another baby. Now I don’t live in Sydney anymore so couldn’t go to her even if I could find her again. I don’t even know if technically she was a good doctor, but she sure had a good bedside (chairside?) manner.
“You know what else would work for doctors… if they had fairs where all your local doctors sat at booths and you could wander around talking to them. ”
If they’re going to have a fair, I totally expect it to look like this.
I’ll be honest I was shocked by my parents response to my atheism. In high school my parents thought I was gay and had a huge we support you thing. I’m not gay I just wasn’t dating or particularly interested in boys in hs (things changed in college).
When I told them I was an atheist it became clear that they were willing to accept ANYTHING except that. And it has been an on going discussion between us since then. I wish they would just ask what they mean instead of dancing around it.
Mom: Do you believe in God yet?
Me: No.
I’ve totally been asked why I don’t do bad things when folks find out I’m an atheist. Things have gotten better since I moved from my hometown, but it still comes up.
My work has almost all religious individuals who flaunt it. I keep pretty quiet about my atheism there. Though once one of my co-workers realized it she was impressed that I went to church with my work and didn’t…I don’t know act like a crazy person?? I was taking someone I am a caretaker to church. That is my job and I will act like a professional while doing it.
@SomeGal
I hope you like Wreck it Ralph I did!
Tell us what you thought when you come back?
Another example of folks who are able to pass are homosexuals. Just because they can pass doesn’t mean they should have to. They shouldn’t have to pretend they are something they aren’t.
@Baddog
People have said before that atheists should leave America because America is a CHRISTIAN nation. Except, 16% of Americans these days are non-religious……
My dad wants to move to Canada anyway. My dads got dual citizenship. He thinks I should come with, but I don’t really think we will avoid out problems that way. Though it would help my dad with his health. I suppose if he ever loses his health insurance he will just move to Canada.
@Marie
My best friend is that way too. She gets worried in social interactions that people don’t like her. She lacks a little in the social skills department, but I think that is part of her charm. Plus I know she isn’t lying to me which helps because I have trust issues.
Generally, we are a friendly crew here.
This post got long….
Sloth?
I don’t want to start everything up again, but I’ve been thinking about it and I am a really casual user of the word hate and I should know not everyone is. I think that believing untrustworthy and having an unfavorable opinion = hate. I hate carrots. I hate MRAs. I hate my neighbors when they make too much noise. I hate the cat when she wakes me up in the morning by wrecking my stuff. But (and I should have realized this sooner), not everyone uses hate that way. I know some people save it for really specific circumstances and use it the way I use a word like loathe. I am really sorry to anyone who took my hate to mean “want to kill” or commit hate crimes or loathe. I didn’t mean to be saying that and it should have occurred to me that hate was too inexact a word, and was in fact a really heavy word for some people. I am really sorry.
On the plus side, Wreck-It-Ralph was amazingly fun and I loved how many little girls they had playing in the arcade! Go girl gamers! 🙂
@kim, sorry about you’re doctor moving. I’d love doctor fairs too, anyway you can get to know them besides paying and realizing it’s too late.
@melody Sorry about the people you have at work 🙁 I feel like your analogy to homosexuals (don’t like that word, but that may just be me) helped. My dad’s getting married, and I want to be able to come out to his fiancee/ kids because I really hate censoring myself, and when I asked my mom for advice she didn’t really understand why. No one should have to feel like they need to hide part of who they are to feel safe or accepted.
And the rest of this thread helped me w/ that. Can’t believe* people think atheists are ‘crazy’ just b/c they don’t believe in god or w/e. This thread has been kind of an eye opener.
*as in I can believe, but think it’s sucky of them
@somegal I’m a casual user of hate too. Not adding much, just being rambly.
I shall go in search of cute ball python videos now.
*saunters off*
I hope I used saunter correctly….
@Marie
It was a very good saunter. 🙂
Interestingly, my insurance company sent me to a therapist without telling/warning me that it was a Christian counseling group. I was so nervous when I showed up and saw the sign that I almost didn’t go in. I got up the nerve to explain that I was an atheist and hadn’t known and the therapist was just WONDERFUL about it. She promised it wouldn’t come up if I didn’t want it to and it didn’t. She ended up being the only good therapist I’ve ever had. (All the crosses in the waiting room were a bit off-putting though, I never did get used to them.)
@some gal
Yay for your good therapist! (boo to the insurance who didn’t tell you though.) I’ve gone to one christian therapist, if all the religious stuff (pamphlets, ..things you hang on the wall, but aren’t icons? they just had god related stuff on them) was to say. He didn’t bring up religon in therapy either, but we didn’t hit off for other reasons.
Now, attempts to embed ball python video (if you don’t like snakes, snakes coming up)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W20JFi6Xs4Q
embeding failed. How does one do that?