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Friend-zoning Out

One of approximately ten gazillion zillion “friend zone” rage comics.

I’m too lazy to write a real post today, so I thought I’d point you all to a pretty decent analysis of the dreaded “friend zone” by Foz Meadows on goodreads.

Here she is addressing the “Nice Guys” of the world:

[S]omewhere along the line, you’ve got it into your head that if you’re romantically interested in a girl who sees you only as a friend, her failure to reciprocate your feelings is just that: a failing. That because you’re nice and treat her well, she therefore owes you at least one opportunity to present yourself as a viable sexual candidate, even if she’s already made it clear that this isn’t what she wants. That because she legitimately enjoys a friendship that you find painful (and which you’re under no obligation to continue), she is using you. That if a man wants more than friendship with a woman, then the friendship itself doesn’t even attain the status of a consolation prize, but is instead viewed as hell: a punishment to be endured because, so long as he thinks she owes him that golden opportunity, he is bound to persist in an association that hurts him – not because he cares about the friendship, but because he feels he’s invested too much kindness not to stick around for the (surely inevitable, albeit delayed) payoff.

Seriously, Nice Guys, if you think of your friendship with a woman as a means to an end, or some kind of purgatory, then it’s not really a friendship, and you’re doing both yourself and your crush a disservice by persisting in it.  (I learned this lesson myself the hard way, a long time before there were helpful internet posts explaining to me why Nice Guying was a recipe for crappiness all around.)

Speaking of learning: I also learned from Foz Meadows’ post that there is a Wikipedia entry for “friend zone,” complete with advice on how dudes can avoid getting  “friendzoned” in the first place.

Several advisers urged men, during the initial dates, to touch women physically in appropriate places such as elbows or shoulders as a means of increasing the sexual tension. … Adviser Ali Binazir agrees, and suggested for the man to be a “little bit dangerous”, not in a violent sense, but “with a bit of an edge to them”, and be unpredictable and feel “comfortable in their skin as sexual beings.”

Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia … for Your Penis*.

Also: Here is the official Friend Zone anthem, “Consolation Prize” by Orange Juice. Lyrics here.

* Hetero cis penis only.

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katz
10 years ago

my desire to solve everything with WD40 and duct tape

Naturally; one for if it doesn’t move and it should, one if it moves and it shouldn’t.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

And I’m finding an internet black hole trying to figure out if it’s fish safe, so I’m going to guess probably not. Which means yet more squeaky bubbler noise.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

@katz — exactly!

Pecunium
10 years ago

I have, in the past few years, learned more about allergy cooking than anyone wants to.

Of the five partners I’ve had (and one housemate) I’ve had in the past four years, only one has not had some allergy.

One was peanuts (keels over and tries to die if one has eaten peanuts, and then kisses her).

One is lactose intolerant, and reacts to wheat.

One has a complex set of allergies which needed something of a spreadsheet, in part because she had protein rotations.

The one I live with is allergic to all nightshades (peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant), fructose, garlic, raw onion, and peanuts (to a mild degree).

My former housemate was a vegetarian, and diabetic: she worried about glycemic index.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Pecunium, one of my cousin’s sons is allergy to cow products? dairy? Actually allergic, makes me kind of actually like being lactose intolerant, at least I can decide pizza is worth suffering for.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Oh, I forgot that my partner (and her/our other partner) are lactose intolerant.

I am the only person who can eat anything I want.

I am incredibly privileged in that regard.

Magpie
10 years ago

Coconut oil is for basting your legs while suntanning at lunchtime at school.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Coconut oil makes the best popcorn; just like the movies used to make.

GingerSnaps
GingerSnaps
10 years ago

I feel like everyone should give me an example of misogyny so I can use MRA logic to make it MIIIIISAAAAANDRYYYYY!!1!!

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

New theory: there are, actually, men that lose the ability to think straight as soon as a pair of boobs is waved in front of them. Sexy women are their cryptonite. Therefore, they need to assume that the women their talking to on the internet looks like Shrek or we quickly become, in their head, a mix of all their favorite porn-stars and actresses. And lose the ability to think.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Kyrie, don’t most of them grow out of that a few years after puberty though? I’d think you were right if they were <15, but most of them seem to have at least high school level English skills (just no logic skills)

GingerSnaps — can you make the expectation of motherhood into misandry? (women are man-haters if they won't bred on command?)

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

No, I think they’re older: who has such a deep and rationalized hatred of women at 15?

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

No one, I hope? I was just thinking that the boob obsession would make sense from teenage (hetero cis) boys — that most people realize staring is jerkish fairly soon after becoming interested, yet they somehow decided that was misandry not common decency. (Even spellcheck doesn’t think misandry is a word)

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

Saddly, creepy men exists. They’re obviously not the majority of men, but they’re here. NWO is one of them, for starters. Most MRAs seems to be middle aged men with a history of failed relationships.

(Even spellcheck doesn’t think misandry is a word)

I’ve seen MRAs being very angry about that fact, and use it as a proof of misandry.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

I guess I had assumed creepy men chose to be creepy and thus managed to hold down jobs by choosing not to be creepy at work, but then again, the internet attracts creeps. Creepy doesn’t seem to be the default state for most men though (but feminists all hate men?)

And spellcheck doesn’t acknowledge “spellcheck” as a word, people actually get angry instead of just kind of chuckling at it? Or this is that whole feminists are the brainwashed ones thing, that I could ever think spellcheck is just a useful, if often wrong and amusing, computer program. (That was a question, but to steal a Doctor Who line “that sentence kinda got away from me”)

yzek
yzek
10 years ago

Most commenters totally miss the point.

Individuals getting “friendzoned” most usually don’t pretend friendship. They know (from their own experience or because someone told so) that revealing true feelings too early leads to rejection, so you need to get closer to each other and wait for right moment.

Your claim that “true friendship should survive romantic rejection” is basically wrong. No one never-ever should be encouraged to stay in that kind of sick relationship; especially by suggesting that “if you break with X after rejection, you are not a true friend of X”. And that’s really a acronimized LJBF feels.

Mr. Futrelle: you seem to have more compassion for “friendzonded” people than most of your DB commenters, I appreciate that.

Y.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

yzek — “Your claim that “true friendship should survive romantic rejection” is basically wrong.”

Then its good that people have been saying more like “true friendship should survive romantic rejection without either party feeling like they were entitled to more” — not that you have to be willing to be friends with the person, but that you have to go vent to someone else. And see above about creepy men in regards to doing things just to get laid when the other party has no clue you’re interested in sex not friendship.

Kakanian
Kakanian
10 years ago

All of this reminds me… has there been any recent treatment on the meaning of penises in Superhero comic books? I’ve read a pretty funny text about James Bond’s penis years and years ago and I recently noticed that probably over 90% of all male superheros either tuck their genitals or do not have them…according to the illustrations. With the conspicious exemption of the Ultimates-universe, but in that one everyone’s a dick.

Dracula
Dracula
10 years ago

They know (from their own experience or because someone told so) that revealing true feelings too early leads to rejection, so you need to get closer to each other and wait for right moment.

Um, no. Seriously, no. Not wanting to date someone causes rejection. It’s not a matter of well timed button pressing.

Your claim that “true friendship should survive romantic rejection” is basically wrong. No one never-ever should be encouraged to stay in that kind of sick relationship…

I think “Unaware of the irony.” is a safe assumption at this point.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

The “friendzone” concept is based in the idea of women as vending machines. Saying “well, maybe these guys were expecting chips, not soda” doesn’t make the idea of women as vending machines any more sensible.

@yzek — We did women are not vending machines already.

kilo
kilo
10 years ago

@Kendra

You actually think that fan service for straight men is misandric?

I’ll admit that it sounds stupid, and I certainly don’t want to argue for other points that Thermos makes. I do think there’s something to it, though. For me, fanservice targeted at straight men leads to 1) visual pleasure, 2) feelings of guilt for enjoying a sexualized depiction of a woman, and 3) annoyance at being pandered to. I can accept it as a form of male privilege, but it has definitely made me unhappy at times, and ruined things for me that I used to enjoy or might have enjoyed. “Put T&A on it so men will buy it” ultimately removes full personhood from men and exploits their weaknesses.

(FTR, I also agree with you that there is misogyny involved; I’d rather not debate who has it worse in greater detail, as I only have experience from one side. Probably women, though.)

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

Individuals getting “friendzoned” most usually don’t pretend friendship. They know (from their own experience or because someone told so) that revealing true feelings too early leads to rejection, so you need to get closer to each other and wait for right moment.

Well, it’s true that “I’ve always loved you, I’ve known you were the love of my life for the minute I’ve met you” declarations can lead to very painful rejection, even more if the object of the crush hadn’t seen it coming. But your chances of being seen as a potential partner doesn’t increase over time, if any that’s the odds of hearing “you’re a brother to me” that increase. And showing clearly your interest in someone, is not the same as revealing true feelings: “wanna go to the cinema?”, “wanna go out with me?” or whatever the kids do these days is not the same as, and a better start than saying “I love you”.

Individuals getting “friendzoned” most usually don’t pretend friendship. They know believe (from their own experience or because someone told so) that revealing true feelings too early leads to rejection, so you need to get closer to each other and wait for right moment. they act in a passive-aggressive fashion, hide their feelings then blame the girl for not dating them

Ftfy.

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

oh, I fail at html. “know ” and “you need to get closer to each other and wait for right moment” should be striked.
Anyway, it’s creepy that you talk about people like you’re hunting them. I’m not sure if it’s more or less creepy than seeing them as vending machine, though.

Quick poll: do you prefer to me mindless machine without agency or a target and a piece of meat, ladies?

Kyrie
Kyrie
10 years ago

Btw, I used <s>text</s>. Isn’t that the correct tag?

yzek
yzek
10 years ago

“Not wanting to date someone causes rejection.” In your ideal world, yes. In real world, some people acted who talk an act clearly get rejected because other party assumes “one seems needy/creepy/other by asking me out too soon, better run away”.

And all of that talk about entitled creeps treating other like vending machines follows that wrong pattern. There’s in most cases no entitlment; just missed attraction. In real world the comic “rage guy” looks more like http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/okay-guy with “FFFFUUUUU” in his mind.

Seriously, think about who of your “friendzoned” friends who seem completely cool about that, so you write about him/her as an good counterexample of rage guy could possibly hide one’s frustration deep inside and maybe let it out as an anonymous post somewhere online… who knows?

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