Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.
Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!
This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.
Happy discussing!
Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.
@ Argenti
All I’m asking is that he pick an analogy where both creatures are in the same genus, or at least one where both are either plants or animals. Is that really so much to ask for?
The implication of my last comment makes me want to clarify it. I was enthusiastic about the capability to build a directory of services that could be shared across sites. Less enthusiastic about implementation. Less enthusiastic about the attitudes of the community (ex.: AVfM) hosting such a directory. More enthusiastic that such networks can be established in the first place, to provide more awareness and hopefully better services.
The fact that apparently there was a men’s shelter and MRAs had no idea it existed (if that’s true) does suggested that a lot of back end communications infrastructure needs to be built. Which, again, is not a thing that can be accomplished by screaming at feminists.
“There are other, more productive things that they could be doing instead.”
There’s the problem, right there.
Seriously, if there was one shelter in all of Canada and someone trying to keep it afloat alone, and it was a women’s shelter? Feminists would have got the word out and organized a fundraising campaign. Because we know how to do that. Apparently MRAs don’t, and if there really are some of them who’re moderate and reasonable and focused on issues like Joe and friends keep saying, they’re going to have to learn. Feminists could in theory even teach them how you do stuff like that! If they stopped yelling at us and actually focused on getting the work done.
Hell, we might have even helped raise money for the men’s shelter if someone had told us about it. But, again, there is no reasonable conversation and asking for assistance going on, just shouting.
I wonder how many of them actually give a hoot about men in need of shelters, or men committing suicide? Like you said, they don’t do anything to help. I get the feeling it’s just another thing to scream about, something else to blame women for, much like when they were fifteen and didn’t get out of bed after being called three times and missed the exam and it’s all your fault, Mum!
I think there are men who see things like that as real issues and want to help. I just don’t think that the MRM is in any way useful to them in terms of accomplishing those goals.
Fuck, AVfM knows how kickstarter works right? MRAs certainly know how fake project drives work *cough*sexism in videos game rebuttal*cough*
If they had their back end shit together, they certainly could’ve gotten word out that there was a men’s shelter, one and only one, and it was desperate.
As for a list of some sort, I’ve certainly seen them for other things. Hell, I have a list of shelters in Pittsburgh, complete with my notes as to which no longer exist (guess what? It’s a lot) — US wise though? At least in Pittsburgh the YMCA was a men’s only shelter. Homeless shelter yes, not DV specific, but a fucking roof.
And yeah, there are shelter lists online, and they weren’t hard to find. I don’t recall much good info on who they served, that was a rabbit hole, but the info is there if you look.
Fuck, does anyone even know if AVfM lists suicide hotlines in their articles about male suicide rates? Because google does (go google anything suicide related, note the phone number atop the results)
“I think there are men who see things like that as real issues and want to help. I just don’t think that the MRM is in any way useful to them in terms of accomplishing those goals.”
Oh certainly, but from what little I know of such men, they think the MRM amathema to their cause. Akin to how most vegetarians and vegans view PETA (dear gods guys, it was a spider!)
Ugh, PETA. They’ve done more to harm the animal rights movement than anyone else out there.
(Plus Newkirk uses pig insulin, but apparently that’s OK because she’s important! I can’t stand that woman.)
Things like high male suicide rates are public health issues that aren’t being ignored. They are very much addressed, in Australia anyway. Epidemiology isn’t ideological. The problem I have is that gendered health issues that predominantly effect women are being co-opted by these guys. Federal funding isn’t a cornucopia, mostly because people don’t like paying taxes. I mean people like mras who resent government programmes at the same time as they demand them. Domestic violence is more of a public health issue for women than men, therefore funding, limited as it is, goes to women’s shelters. Male health issues, like suicide and cardiovascular disease, are addressed by counselling and education. They most certainly aren’t ignored.
Arrgghhhh yeah, the eye rolls when I say anything about animal rights. My loaches are wild caught, they don’t breed in captivity, so I get my ethics in knots over animal rights often enough. But my father’s idiot dog? Wouldn’t last an hour without his people. He fucking eats bricks, I dare not think what would happen if he got near traffic.
So yeah, PETA’s anti-pet thing can shove it.
I like PETA.
Remember when they told a bunch of people who were feeding local strays that they wanted to help them, rounded up the strays, and euthanized them? Without telling the folks feeding them that’s what they planned to do?
I have nothing but contempt for those people.
Cassandra – I didn’t know they did that.
Cassandra – Argenti put it better than I was about to. Lots of men who help other men with those (and other) issues. I just doubt any of them are MRAs, and certainly not the trolls or the scum like Elam who’re all about hating women. Men’s problems (even the ones MRAs haven’t made up) are just another stick to beat women with.
Are PETA active here, ArchaeoH? I’ve never heard much about them, but they do some ghastly stuff in the US and UK, iirc, like the thing Cassandra just mentioned.
I try to be fair and think, well, maybe some guys drifted into the MRM out of a desire to work on real issues. It’s kind of hard to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who stays for very long, though, given how obvious it is that they’re not doing anything except threatening feminists.
Kittehs, I am a big animal person. I always liked them because they made people talk. I am disappointed to hear Cassandra’s tale. Animals Australia are my favourites. They are the ones getting into abattoirs and arresting the live animal trade.
And then there’s PETAs advertising, which seems to work on the principle that you can get people to be nicer to animals by taking pictures of naked women in cages. And “sea kittens”. Oh, and the campaign that tried to fat shame people into vegetarianism.
I’m not seeing what’s to like about them, honestly.
Cassandra, I liked them because animals’ rights are a very difficult thing to get people interested in, and they were very aggressive about putting that into the public conversation. I suppose, having been campaigning pacifically since I was a kid and getting nowhere, it was good to see people going guerilla about it.
The absolute dumbest idea they ever had, though, was this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/21/peta-plans-porn-website_n_972497.html
Apparently nobody at PETA was smart enough to think about the fact that conditioning people to associate sexual arousal with images of animals being abused is a really, really bad idea.
Cssandra, yeah, it’s not good. But it’s like an ill-advised ad campaign. Like I said, attention is very hard to get for this issue
I don’t see how PETA are a guerrilla organization either. Now ALF, that’s a guerrilla organization, or these guys.
http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/02/28/us-court-calls-sea-shepherd-pirates
Also, you may not want to handwave away the sexism in PETA’s ad campaigns on this particular blog. I don’t think I’m the only one who isn’t going to take kindly to that.