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Election countdown: Open thread

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It’s coming. And whatever happens, it’s going to be a holy mess.

Discuss.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Alan Robertshaw
I know it’s unlikely, but I still think that if Biden is elected we should try to pressure him to do it. We let Bush off the hook, and if Trump gets off it will only embolden the GOP and tell them once again that their actions don’t have consequences.

@Specialffrog

I can see Putin having some fun hosting a ‘legitimate US government in exile’, though only until there was a deal to be made with the Biden administration.

That’s a possibility, but I get the feeling that if Trump is removed from power and the international community recognizes Biden as president, Putin will no longer find Trump very useful and will cast him aside in favor of some new objective.

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
1 year ago

@Naglfar: I agree it wouldn’t be for very long. But portraying US democracy as being as broken as Russian democracy is a clear goal of Putin’s.

Maybe he wouldn’t go as far as hosting Trump but he will definitely use of the election outcome.

Trump would be a fool to trust him, but of course he is one.

rv97
rv97
1 year ago

Trump has legitimized fascism worldwide – look at Brazil and Russia in particular (countries whose leaders feel particularly flattered to have this man calling the shots for the US), and possibly other countries like Poland, Hungary, Turkey and several others.

As a UK citizen whose PM has had few but amicable relations with Trump, I don’t feel like I’m as concerned as I should be but I do have to keep an eye out for how this can fuck me over.

I speak as someone who is not white (despite being a naturalized citizen for most of my life of two decades), cis and willing to be religious and subservient to the capitalist order.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@SpecialFFrog
I wish American ‘democracy’ was only as broken as the current Russian system.

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
1 year ago

@Dalillama: If the US democracy were equivalent to Russia:

  • All non-Fox News media would not exist
  • Biden would have actually been arrested and Trump would be running against a Washington Generals type of candidate who would mostly just agree with what Trump said
  • Trump admin whistleblowers would all be dead or under arrest
  • The election would be a complete sham as opposed to a partial sham and Trump would be guaranteed to win by a slightly increased margin from 2016
  • The amendment allowing Trump to serve beyond two terms would already be a done deal
  • etc.

I know it is bad at the moment Russia is still worse. Mind you, if Trump manages to hang on to power the above will be part of his check list for the 2024 election.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@SpecialFFrog
Way to miss the point, sport. Guess which country has the most people behind bars, in both relative and absolute terms? Hint: it’s not Russia
Guess which country has the most people murdered by the authorities? Again, not Russia, although the US may only be second on that one what with the Uighur genocide in China atm.
Guess which country is currently engaged in more wars of aggression than anyone else? Again, not Russia.
Guess which candidate Americans can vote for that will change these things? Surprise! There isn’t one.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
1 year ago

I already voted early. It was pretty painless – I was near the polling place already so I just scooted on in and voted. They even validated my parking. My down-ballot is especially important, because McConnell is on it. I have zero hope that he’s going to lose (too many racists and pro-forced-birthers in Eastern Kentucky who are perfectly content with his policies) but it felt nice to fill in that circle for McGrath, who is far from a perfect candidate but who would be worlds better than McConnell.

In 2016 I fell asleep before the polls closed and woke up again at like 3 AM, whereupon I checked the map and it felt like the bottom had fallen out of my world. I had saved my little “I Voted” sticker and planned to make it a souvenir of my vote for the first female president. It’s long in the trash now. Don’t need any souvenirs of the dumpster fire we have today.

I am not too concerned for my personal safety if the election goes south (which could happen with either of them winning) but I am very concerned about the blatant plans for voter intimidation. Usually the voter caging plans are very hush-hush, but this year they are right out in the open. The perps know that the SCOTUS has their backs, so why not be up front about it? It’s discouraging. We are in a situation of minority rule, and have been for some time now.

Seth S
Seth S
1 year ago

I’m terrified, I won’t lie.

The one advantage I have is that I also have Australian citizenship, but that doesn’t do me a lot of good since Americans are still banned from travel almost everywhere. And my passport needs renewing (actually, I think both of them might…), and I was hoping to put that off until AFTER I got my name and gender marker changed. But I also have to get my divorce and get custody of my daughter and tbh I’ll probably spend most of tomorrow evening in a haze of benadryl and alcohol because I’m trying to avoid weed entirely (it’s legal here but I’m not supposed to have it as part of my job and my husband’s an alcoholic so I can easily see him demanding I get a hair follicle test for weed if I demand he get a hair follicle test for his daily drinking. I don’t drink often as a general rule – typically no more than once a week – but I have a feeling I’ll need it that one day. And possibly the next.)

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
1 year ago

May this story be a fitting metaphor for yet another narrow survival of American democracy, despite political attempts to wreck it:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/02/all-cetaceans-go-whale-sculpture-stops-dutch-train-crashing-into-water

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 year ago

@Dalilama : guess what have nothing to do with having a broken democracy ? All your points, which miss that they are indicators of institutional racism more than of autocracy.

If you actually talk about freedom of thought, free election, and the like, America is *way* better than Russia, because the bar to pass is so low. There’s actual alternative, it’s just not the one *you* want.

Your hate blind you. Not much of a problem given that hating on USA is well justified, but it also mean you regulary make a fool of yourself, like here.

Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ lumipuna

That story is amazing. I’m still trying to figure why there’s a station in the middle of a pond; but then again, just look at London’s DLR.

But what is just wonderful is that sculpture is called “Saved by the whale’s tail”.

Talk about nominative determinism.

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
1 year ago

@Dalillama: I don’t disagree with any of your points.

Either way, I don’t think I want to continue arguing about this at this particular juncture. If you are in the US I hope you are safe this week.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
1 year ago

Just trying to keep sane.

I bought a shit ton of booze and clearance Halloween candy yesterday so I’m as ready as I’ll ever be.

I’m somewhat comforted because the GOP is losing most of their voter suppression attempts in the courts. Cautiously optimistic but terrified and am concerned that whatever happens Trump supporters will turn violent (violenter?).

Full Metal Ox
1 year ago

@Cyborgette:

I’m a boomer—and I’m not even remotely laughing; your—our—thousand and three reasons to be fucking terrified are perfectly valid.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Ohlmann
No offense, but you haven’t the first fucking clue what you’re talking about. You are aware, are you not (you’re clearly not), that incarcerated people don’t get to vote? And that despite this, they are counted as residents for purposes of allotting representation? And that prisons are specifically placed in white, rural towns to inflate their population counts? And that in most states formerly incarcerated persons are permanently prohibited from voting? And the racial bias of the US carceral system? That’s just a start, I could go on all afternoon, but I’m not here to be your tutor. I recommend you start lessening your ignorance by reading The New Jim Crow. Not directly related to the carceral system, but on the topic of American brokenness, try Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee and Neither Wolf Nor Dog, and Between The World and Me. The problem with the Russian government right now is that it isn’t living up to the Russian Constitution. The problem with the US government is that it is. The US is and always has been an Apartheid state, and such a state cannot meaningfully be considered a democracy.

@SpecialFFrog
See above. I am in the United States, and I will not be safe here no matter who wins any elections.

Last edited 1 year ago by Dalillama
epitome of incomrepehensibility

Seconding @Full Metal Ox. Well, not me personally – I was born in ’88 – but my father’s a boomer from the States, was a kid when the Cuban Missile crisis happened and grew up with all the Cold War spinoffs & on-and-off fears of nuclear disaster. He’s also pretty worried about this election.

He’s been watching the evening TV news for nearly a week straight – normally he’d rather read about ancient Hebrew verbs or something. 🙂

I don’t think (fingers crossed) that Trump could seize power and become a dictator now, but things could erupt into violence in smaller ways. And @Dalilama’s right that there are already so many less overt ways that power is being taken from people.

IDK if the U.S. is the worst for this. Canada’s been pretty horrible with racism, especially towards indigenous people, and is still keeping them from holding anything but nominal power over land that should be theirs. I don’t know that much about policing here, but there have been similar incidents of police violence towards racialized people.

It does help to have someone less Trump-like in office here, but there are lots of things Trudeau seems to be slacking off on. A bunch of (mostly Native) towns were promised clean water 3-4 years ago, and I heard a couple of days ago that 40+ still don’t have decent tap water. There’s a town that’s been under a boiled water advisory for 25+ years.

Anyway, I don’t know why I’m ranting about things in Canada. If I were in the U.S. I’d vote Democrat rather than not voting, and I’m crossing my fingers that the orange-faced one is kicked out of the White House, but people are right, the votes need to be fairer in order to make more of a difference.

Take care, everyone!!

Gwynfydd
Gwynfydd
1 year ago

I’m on tenterhooks over the election and thinking of you all and everyone in the US. I’m Scottish based and appreciating some amount of sensible behaviour from our devolved government.

I am feeling nervous about the results, but I’m glad that I’m going to have quite a bit to keep my mind occupied! I am seriously thinking of all of you over there and wishing for the Trump to be dumped.

@Alan Robertshaw

That story is amazing. I’m still trying to figure why there’s a station in the middle of a pond; but then again, just look at London’s DLR.

Yeah ! I saw that story too and was blown away by it. The image is really wild and how lucky the sculpture was there!
(I tried to post another pic of it but can’t see how to do that on mobile)

Last edited 1 year ago by Gwynfydd
rv97
rv97
1 year ago

@wwth

Glad to know I’m not the only one who has stocked up on booze in response to the election results.

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