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anti-Semitism TERFs transmisogyny transphobia

TERFs and guns: two terrible tastes that taste worse together

Saidit is a “free speech” Reddit clone that’s teeming with the sort of people who tend to get banned from Reddit. That is, the worst. As I noted in a previous post, some of the former denizens of Reddit’s banned Incels subreddit have taken up home there, as have several thousand TERFs, who are trying to recreate the peculiar, er, magic of the recently shut down GenderCritical subreddit.

While most of the r/GenderCritical refugees have ended up in Saidit’s own GenderCritical forum, a few dozen of the more extreme TERFs have founded an even more reactionary Saidit forum called 5thWaveFeminism.

The forum wears its backwards politics on its sleeve, declaring its opposition to

men posing as women, pornsites running trafficking operations and the liberal left kicking out women in favor for these subhumans. We are fed up, hence why we decided to create a whole new wave rejecting left wing/liberal feminism and their hatred of women. This community is proudly anti-antifa and anti-BLM.

We will ban TIM’s, Rapestars and other degenerates. 

TIM, by the way, stands for “Trans-IdentJewsified Male” — TERFspeak for trans women; “Rapestars” is the subreddit’s favorred terminology for “porn stars,” because in their view all porn is rape. Oh, and “degenerate?” That’s just a Nazi dogwhistle. It’s as if TERFs and 4chan had a baby.

So what to these self-declared 5th Wave Feminists like to talk about? The evils of drag and BDSM, and the alleged role of Jews in promoting “parasitic” trans ideology to teens.

And guns. They really like to talk about guns.

One commenter called LoveNotPorn really seems to be looking for an excuse to shoot a trans woman in “self defense.” In a post titled “Encountered a TIM in the wild,” she writes:

Today I went to get some gas and when I went into the gas station a TIM was stood talking to the cashier. They had long blond hair, pink leggings and some kind of vest on, I could tell they were a TIM despite them wearing a mask. I waited until they left and went up to pay for the gas.

Fortunately my state (Mississippi) allows open carry and I was carrying at the time so if he did try to rape or abuse me, I could have defend myself easily and be defended in law.

Yes, I’m sure the random (possibly) trans women you spotted at the gas station was planning to “rape or abuse” you.

The same commenter put up a photo of her and her husband’s guns in another post, so I don’t doubt she really was carrying at the time.

In another post, a commenter called StingingDove fantasizes about performing citizens arrests on people involved in the porn industry.

Does anyone know citizens arrest laws in LA or California AND/OR Canada? Given how pornhub is trafficking CHILDREN and no one is doing anything, i feel the need to perform a citizens arrest on the people behind this brainwashing and the damage to our children.

I do not want my teenage son to ruin his body by becoming transgender from watching porn, i do not want my daughter to become a lesbian and be brainwashed into becoming a pornstar.

Wat.

PORNHUB is trafficking children into their disgusting industry, they have a section that has MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN RAPING TRAFFICKED WOMEN. They have women performing sex acts on other women on the site, which should be illegal, they promote and encourage women to promote their own rape and self rape.

Self rape?

We need to arrest not only the people behind this disgusting site, but also those women who are willing to act and promote these acts.

I will be travelling once the fires have stopped, a friend from WoLF has given me a list of addresses and names of people involved in these crimes. I have been planning how to arrest these people. Does anyone know if i will be put in jail if i carry a gun and handcuffs into california?

I hope this elaborate fantasy remains a fantasy. This is close to QAnon-level derangement.

H/T — Regular commenter Naglfar. Thanks!

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Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Snowberry

First off, Jesus fuck, the next time you tell the rest of the commentariat to kill themselves, I’m going to ask David to ban you.

Second, you seem to assume that the goal of antifacists is entirely to just murder all fascists. This is not the case. Antifacists want to stop fascists. That can include killing them, certainly, but it’s an enormous leap of logic to go from someone saying “there’s 11 Nazis” and tack on “and all those Nazis should immediately be murdered, there is no other solution”.

Also, fascism doesn’t arise because individual fascists escape and spread to the next generation. Fascism is an ideology, not a genetic trait. If we somehow magically got a button that made all the fascists in the world disappear, that would not prevent fascism from arising in the future. Showing the world how awful fascism is won’t stop fascism from arising in the future. The Nazis proved that rather handily. Fascism is intrinsically linked to capitalism and as long as the capitalist system is in power, fascism will sooner or later arise. (Kay and Skittles explains this concept very concisely: https://youtu.be/darxphvk058)

There is no “correct” course of action that antifacists can take to remove fascism without dealing with the underlying systems that give rise to it. Antifacists can get literally everyone else to turn against the fascists today and fascism will still crop up in the future if the material conditions that give rise to it are not addressed.

And it is incredibly reductive to assume that antifacists do not realize this and that we are somehow only interested in murdering everyone we label a Nazi.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Catalpa

And it is incredibly reductive to assume that antifacists do not realize this and that we are somehow only interested in murdering everyone we label a Nazi.

This is something the right wing fails to understand. Because they think in black and white absolutes, they assume that someone either loves something or hates it and wants it supporters to all die (which is of course a projection of their own thoughts). This is part of the outrage that they have over cancel culture: they have projected onto the left that the point of boycotting something or someone is because they hate them and want all their fans and supporters to die. In reality, most of us don’t want to kill people, we want people to stop being fascists.

Viscaria
Viscaria
1 year ago

Just want to say that I agree with the idea that people who listen to Nazi shit who are like “This sounds good. I have no problem with this” cannot be distinguished from the “real” Nazis, and I don’t believe this makes me an incrementalist (???), a blood knight, or a conservative.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 year ago

There is no “correct” course of action that antifacists can take to remove fascism without dealing with the underlying systems that give rise to it. Antifacists can get literally everyone else to turn against the fascists today and fascism will still crop up in the future if the material conditions that give rise to it are not addressed.

Thank you!

It’s not a one and done problem. It’s something that’ll crop up again and again and again down the years.

People LIKE othering folks in response to their own problems and beliefs, it’s pretty much a default action for most, and from “other” to “subhuman” is a fucking short and very slippery step. See pretty much every single group David reports on for evidence.

numerobis
numerobis
1 year ago

We’re going to solve fascism the same way we solve the dishes: by doing the work over and over for eternity.

And refusing to let them get the upper hand ever, because that way lies a messy, bug-infested kitchen.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 year ago

I just want to Quote For Truth what Catalpa said:  

If we somehow magically got a button that made all the fascists in the world disappear, that would not prevent fascism from arising in the future. Showing the world how awful fascism is won’t stop fascism from arising in the future. The Nazis proved that rather handily. Fascism is intrinsically linked to capitalism and as long as the capitalist system is in power, fascism will sooner or later arise.

And also what numerobis said:

We’re going to solve fascism the same way we solve the dishes: by doing the work over and over for eternity.

And refusing to let them get the upper hand ever, because that way lies a messy, bug-infested kitchen.

Unfortunately, the world has been neglecting the dishes for far too long and the smell and mess are now impossible to ignore.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
1 year ago

Okay, to bring it all back to ‘one nazi sitting at a table of 10 other people = 11 nazis’, i’d like to dig in to this a little bit.

First off, the one person who is identified in the sentence as a nazi. How do we know they are a nazi?

In this little story, i think this is the most important point. How do we KNOW this person is a nazi?

What are they saying? Are they using dog whistles? Are they just outright talking about how hitler wasn’t that bad, actually?

What have they said, in the past? Are they known for their dog whistles, their fascist rhetoric?

How are they dressed?

What have they done?

HOW COME THEY ARE KNOWN AS A NAZI???

In short: the sentence presumes that the 10 people at the table are choosing to sit with *someone they know is a nazi*.

A nazi isn’t going and sitting at tables in a cafeteria, eating something quietly, then standing up and crowing “you ate with me, a nazi! Now you are all nazis! Muahahahahaha!!!”

This grouping is 10 people who are say: “oh, them? Yeah, i know they are a literal nazi, but i don’t care to violate the social rules to do anything about it. They aren’t bothering me.”

That’s how they become effectively nazis. They might not support the ideology directly, but they sure as shit aren’t ostracising someone who does! They become cover.

“Oh, joe? Yeah, i heard he’s a nazi, but he’s a nice guy who walks his elderly neighbour’s dog, and has lots of friends. He’s probably not a NAZI nazi, maybe just someone who thinks that the transes are transing our kids.”

Also, if stealing nazi pants was a thing we could do, it would be good. Think of the money they’d have to spend on pants! Think of how often they couldn’t appear in public, because their pants were just gone!

“Right, i’m dapper nazi richard spencer, and i am ready to get dressed to do whatever richard spencer is doing right now. OH NO MY PANTS ARE GONE!!”

And then i dream he’d howl: “how does this keep HAPPENING!!! DAMN YOU, PANTS THIEVING ANTIFA!!!!!”

I also agree that we need to look at the systems we have in place, and determine why fascism just keeps cropping up, and change that. But doing that work doesn’t mean you let nazis just… nazi along, like there’s nothing wrong with the present nazis nazi-ing. We need to both solve the actual problem, and the symptoms.

Last edited 1 year ago by Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@Rhuu

Think of how often they couldn’t appear in public, because their pants were just gone!

Maybe, but I feel like they’d probably show up without pants “to own the libs” and somehow it would become a symbol of the alt right to not wear pants. Sort of like how they refuse to wear masks.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

O/T but relevant: Apparently this is happening next month. Their choice of graphic is unusual, I thought they said the rainbow was oppressing them.

Last edited 1 year ago by Naglfar
Lucy Montrose
Lucy Montrose
1 year ago

OK… I’ll wade in for a bit.

@Snowberry, it’s always a shame when someone partially gets it or almost gets it, but fails in the end.
That’s what most angers me about the QAnon nuts and Trumpsters: they recognize enough that corporate power is a threat to our freedom… and then they embrace the very politicians who would deliver us into privatized Tartarus. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, indeed… emphasis on “little”. Barely enough to mouth some of the right words. Meanwhile, their actions are pure fascist.

I thought what you said about living for the present vs. living for the future was great, FWIW:

I’ve heard variations of “if you don’t deal with the present, there is no future.” These usually come from people who are unknowingly or uncaringly sabotaging their own future, so they don’t have a future anyway without outside intervention

.

A lot of these happily deluded righties care only about an ineffable now. And their actions put us all in survival mode… too stressed and too busy just trying to survive to get politically involved, enjoy our lives, or do more than the bare minimum for our loved ones.  Also, constant stress and survival make us all more likely to take mental shortcuts and operate solely on gut instinct. Embracing stereotypes, etc. is something our guts adore.
This is deliberate: to keep us chasing our tails, so the fascists alone can shape our societies.

My position is the opposite: if you don’t tend to the future, whatever you do in the present doesn’t much matter. That attitude not only helped me out of a death spiral, by being dedicated to finding “third options” whenever possible, but also put me in a strong position to help out others who took the opposite attitude and failed.

I had an effton of people telling me to take one day at a time and to live in the here and now when I was going through a rough patch in college. They doubtless thought they were comforting me and providing me a road map to happiness.
All that did was make me suspicious of happiness, wondering if it required engaging the off switches on my brain and my empathy for others. Conservatives are happier than liberals because of their particular happiness-boosting mechanism: they simply choose not to care about others’ plight. Embracing the just world fallacy helps them gain an internal locus of control. Damn the unintended consequences in both cases.

Have you ever noticed that it’s mainly people who are going through rough times in their life (or visiting a yogi) who are sold on the importance of living in the present? Not to mention an outsize faith in baby steps, and the blithe disregard of the importance of them going somewhere.
Keep us chasing our tails and working on ourselves, and taken out of the fight for a better world.

I feel like these happiness bromides like “take one day at a time” were dropped on me as a substitute for actually being my friend. A cheap bone thrown at me, to get me momentarily distracted and “boosted” so that I’ll go away. Because presumably I’ll cease talking to them if I’m happy enough or “present-centered” enough.

TL;DR:  certain comforting messages are a trap. They induce you into not working for the future, or trick you into waiting your life away to become “centered” or “emotionally regulated” enough to join the fight for justice. “You’re overthinking” is what I consider a gateway drug to disdaining reason and thought. It’s despicable to imply that we must sacrifice our brains, or our future-thinking, in order to be happy or balanced; and yet we do that every day in the name of boosting our friends’ spirits.

Also TL;DR: there may be attempting to understand where fascists are coming from (so as to prevent their ideas from taking hold in others), but there is no sparing their feelings or saving a seat for them at the table. Fascists want power at our expense, period.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lucy Montrose
Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Knitting Cat Lady
I believe that the best English rendition of Mitläufer would be ‘fellow-traveler’, although it refers to ancillary supporters of any ideology, and in English usually refers to pinkos.

@Ohlmann

Whether it help to not brutally remind them of the horrors they enable is discutable, but possible. (I fully expect Dalillama to say “no”, and TBH that’s the case for at least a decent amount of them).

For all of me I’d as soon see the lot of them face a tribunal at Den Hague or such other place as may be determined, followed by the same trip their bosses got the last time around. Logistically this is probably not feasible, but that’s honestly my only objection.

@Quisling dogshit
Thanks for completely ignoring the part where fascists are trying to kill us right the fuck now. Thinking of the future is a luxury reserved for people who have a future. I don’t have that luxury, because I’ve already outlived about half my contemporaries in my demographic and I have no way of knowing when my ticket is going to be punched. So, in short, fuck you and the nazi you rode in on. The world will be a better place when you die, and I dearly hope that’s soon.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Dalilama
Wishing death on someone is against the comments policy, please don’t do that.

Lucy Montrose
Lucy Montrose
1 year ago

Is Snowberry the quisling dogshit, or is it me?

I am sorry I hurt you, Daliilama, and for apparently picking the wrong time and place to say what I did

To everyone else: am I still welcome here in the future?

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Lucy

I’m 99% sure that Dalilama is referring to Snowberry, not you. You’re fine.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 year ago

@Lucy
I meant Snowberry, indeed.

@Catalpa
Golden rule style of thing. People who don’t want to be wished death ought not to impugn my right to live.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

@Dalillama
Whether or not it’s justified, it’s still against the comments policy to say that kind of thing here.

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
1 year ago

I read the arguments yesterday, and this morning I’ve caught up with the discussion. Seeing people at each other’s throats was very disturbing, but I have been thinking. Fighting fascism is like draining a massive pus filled wound. In the 1940s they drained the original wound but didn’t clean it properly, leaving behind infectious material and the root cause of the infection. Infections from bits of the pus getting in other cuts have caused outbreaks and the original wound has refilled.
Now our job is to clean the wound, get a curette in there to scrape out every last bit, remove any sack to prevent it coming back and then pack the wound with iodine tape to help it heal from the inside. It’ll need antibiotics and several revisits to prevent a reinfection.
In other words, we need to actively be antifascist, dealing with fascists in the street, countering arguments that might rope in those who aren’t actively fascist but don’t object either, and also find out why fascism as an ideology appeals to people when we can show that it is objectively bad and leads to evil things happening. What is it that leads to people who might otherwise be very pleasent becoming fascists? What social conditions are the breeding grounds for fascism? We can only end fascism by getting at the underlying causes, which takes work, every day, and the systemic change that needs to happen actually happens. We need to know what changes to make first, the best way to clean the wound and heal it. Until then, we’re going to be fighting reinfection, draining the pus but not clearing the infection from the body.

I hope that makes sense, and that we, humanity in general, can clean the wound and find the correct route to healing so it doesn’t come back, soon.

P. S. I am also in multiple categories of people fascists want to kill, and since my government (UK) is fascist-lite at the moment I feel an existential fear that should I get Covid I’ll be allowed to die. Logically, I know the area I live in has very low infection and death rates so I’ll get treatment but I’m disabled and the government has made it clear we are not a priority.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 year ago

@North Sea Sparkly Dragon and any other UK Mammotheers:

I’ve been using this site to keep an eye on rates in my borough You can just plug in the area you’re interested in and get a pretty graph of historic and current cases. There’s a day or so’s delay, obviously, as testing’s not instant, but we’re still using it to decide if we’re going out and about or not.

Bout the first time I’ve found something RL useful from Reddit! 🙂

Beyond Ocean
Beyond Ocean
1 year ago

@Naglfar

Maybe, but I feel like they’d probably show up without pants “to own the libs” and somehow it would become a symbol of the alt right to not wear pants. Sort of like how they refuse to wear masks.

I’ve already seen a fash party member go to a protest without pants to own the libs. I wish I could say it was because some intrepid antifascist stole them.

@Snowberry

Anyone who wants to prevent me from making the Nazi-adjacent no longer Nazi-adjacent because it is somehow “appeasing” the Nazis and not helping to destroy as many possible footholds for their ideology to take root again is blood-knight-adjacent and will be treated accordingly.

You know, for all this fantasizing how we’re all blood-starved killers trying to tear your precious Mitläufer babies from you (using terminology from TV Tropes for some reason), what do you have to show for making them “no longer Nazi-adjacent”?

You whinge about how much smarter you are than everyone who doesn’t have the big brain to think about THE FUTURE, but all you seem to have to offer is inscrutable, sanctimonious rage and a 4D chess master strategy that if only we could go to the nazis and convince them that being tolerant is actually the good thing using FACTS & LOGIC, because no one before you was future-focused enough to try that apparently.

Brenda
Brenda
1 year ago

I’m disabled and in other categories that are targeted or at risk of becoming so.

It’s painful to admit so many Americans are either fascist or duped by media that promotes fascist ideas, but it’s true and it’s been normalized for a long, long time.

Colonialism = capitalism = fascism

Telling people who are getting killed that they need to just calm down or they will make things worse, is neither being an ally nor thinking of the future.

It’s usually an attempt to preserve American normal. But the old American normal is colonialist.

There’s no way to avoid offending people who have grown up in colonialist fundamentalism. Some of them are educable, but we can’t ask people who are getting killed to stop doing what they have to do to fight back to survive.

This isn’t the cause of the constantly repeating colonialism, which was not caused by its victims.

Younger generations appear more aware of this whole dynamic than we Boomers are. We should let them have at it.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
1 year ago

Wow, talk about black-and-white thinking. Apparently if you’re anti-fascist, that means you literally want to murder fascists and will not be satisfied until their skulls are stacked into a throne. This is news to me, that you can’t oppose fascism without being a murderer, or at least a murderer-wannabe. I guess that’s the dichotomy: Nazi and murderer. You have to choose!

How many Nazis have been murdered by antifa lately? I’ll wait while someone goes and counts them.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 year ago

@PoM

How many Nazis have been murdered by antifa lately?

I have the perfect infographic:

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
1 year ago

@Naglfar

Clearly antifa are the true blood knights, always thirsting for ever-more blood and never quite satiated.

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