Categories
empathy deficit entitled babies gender policing lgbt not a cult penises reddit TERFs transmisogyny transphobia

Some trans women literally “get a boner from having their pronouns respected,” Reddit TERF asserts

By David Futrelle

Most people recognize it’s wrong for someone to impose their sexual fetishes on people without their consent — whether the fetishist in question is a boorish dom who demands that women to treat him with the sort of exaggerated deference that no one is obligated to provide anybody unless they’ve agreed to do so as their sub, or if he’s an outright sexual predator like Louis CK coercing younger female comedians into watching him masturbate.

Recently, though, some TERFs have taken this relatively uncontroversial proposition and turned it into something altogether different and deeply wrong. Claiming that the vast majority of trans women are really men pretending to be women just to fulfill some sexual fetish of theirs, they are now suggesting that by merely appearing in public, trans women are forcing their festish on the world much like a flasher exposing himself to children.

In a post on the GenderCritical subreddit — “gender critical feminist” being a favorite new euphemism for TERF — a Redditor called arnaq declares that “I object to being forced to participate in other people’s fetishes and delusions,” a completely reasonable objection, or so it seems, until one sees what she really means.

She starts out as reasonably as her headline at first appears, recounting her experience with a predatory sexual harasser who tried to impose his fetish on her with a series of obscene phone calls.

“Years ago,” she writes,

I had a retail management job and one day I started getting very creepy calls. It was a man who would breathe heavily and say things like “Will you be my mistress?” “Will you fucking punish me?” and all this other disturbing shit. I told him to fuck off and eventually one day he stopped calling. It was so uncomfortable that this man was using my position as a retail employee who was supposed to cater to my customers and forcing me to give him attention.

Every feminist recognizes (and, I imagine, even many non-feminists recognize) that obscene phone calls are no joke.

At this point, though, arnaq’s post takes a rather dramatic turn:

I feel the same level of creeped out being forced to acknowledge these men who fetishize womens’ bodies and their bodily functions as women themselves.

She is, of course, talking about trans women, not crossdressers.

While it is possible some of them aren’t doing this for fetish reasons, it is obvious that many, MANY of them transitioned because they got off on crossdressing or can’t wait to “touch my girltits~!” or some other extremely offensive “reason” for feeling they are a woman.

This is, of course, utter bullshit. There are of course “chasers” who fetishize trans bodies but assuming that those inhabiting trans bodies share these fetishes is absurd. This whole notion is built on the assumption, as Natalie Reed has noted,

that the “shemale” is doing it to get laid, to attract men to him with his new hot, curvy, sexual-object of a body. Either that or, as in “autogynophilia”, doing it to have himself as his very own personal sex object.

In fact, Reed explains,

It is not an act of attempting to emulate or express ourselves as The Other, we are attempting to more accurately and honestly express The Self. We don’t transition into being a new or different person. We become more ourselves.

Back to arnaq’s post:

As much as TRAs [Trans Rights Activists] like to claim that all of them are genuinely women and have known since they were in the womb, spend five minutes in a TRA reddit community and you will see post after post of how sexy they think being a woman is. Things that genuine women never even think about.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure plenty of “genuine women” admire and enjoy their “genuine female” bodies and, yes, even think of them as sexy.

I am all about gender nonconforming people and if they or anyone else wants to dress or participate in activities related to the opposite “gender” I could not care less.

The fact that you’re posting this screed kind of suggests that you do care, a lot.

But it’s the fact that I am supposed to “accept them as one of my own” and pretend that they didn’t grow up in a world that catered to people born the same sex as them while likely many of them (and men in general) preyed on women sexually that pisses me off so much.

This is an attempt to use the language of feminism to support outright bigotry — bigotry as brazen as Trump’s insistence that Mexican immigrants are a bunch of rapists. There’s absolutely no reason to assume that large numbers of trans women behave in a predatory manner towards cis women, either before their transitions or afterwards.

Why do I have to compromise my safety to satisfy someone else’s delusions?

You don’t. But TERFs trying to ban trans women from women’s bathrooms are essentially demanding that they compromise their own safety by forcing them to use men’s bathrooms, which puts them at risk of assault by transphobic men who don’t like the idea of “men wearing dresses.” This sort of violence isn’t imaginary. These assaults really do happen. (And it’s not just cis men who are the attackers; several days ago two cis women were charged with sexually assaulting a trans woman in the bathroom of a /North Carolina bar.)

Why do I have to pretend how I think and feel to appease someone who has enjoyed privilege myself and other women never have?

Trans folks face bigotry and harassment on a level that few cis people can even comprehend, both before and after transition. A staggering one third of trans teens who identify as female despite being assigned male at birth try to commit suicide. (The percentage for trans male teens is an even more staggering 50%.) Yes, as every feminist knows, cis men enjoy privilege over cis women. But the idea that trans women are somehow privileged over cis women because they once presented as boys and men is absurd.

Why do I have to stand for them weaponizing their position as a TIM to attack women and coerce lesbians into sex?

A TIM, by the way, is a “Trans-Identified Male,” TERFspeak for, yes, a trans woman. In any case, I’ve seen zero evidence that “weaponizing” transness to coerce cis lesbians into sex is an actual thing in the world, rather than simply a moral panic, outside of a tiny handful of individual cases. (TERFs who’ve brought this issue up with me have offered only a single example of a real-life trans woman who preyed on cis lesbians in this way.)

Ironically, there were some Rad Fems in the 1970s, many of whom have since become TERFs, who tried to convince straight cis women to become “political lesbians,” abandoning sex with men (if not necessarily starting to have sex with women) in the name of feminism — before everyone (or almost everyone, anyway) realized that that was not how sexuality works, and that pressuring people to somehow magically change their sexual orientation for political or supposedly political reasons is creepy as hell.

I would not be surprised if many of them even get off on the fact that women like myself are placed under this sense of obligation to do cater to them unwillingly by the way many of them behave when they don’t think actual women are paying attention.

I don’t even know what the fuck she’s talking about here.

It is pure misogyny that women are placed under scrutiny and attacked for pointing out how uncomfortable all of this is. A man forcing me to acknowledge him as a “fellow sister” is a violation of my boundaries and I will not stand for it.

Trans women are women. Full stop.

Naturally, the regulars in the GenderCritical subreddit loved armaq’s manifesto. One commenter took armaq’s transphobia one step further, offering an example of alleged trans sexual fetishism that I, at least, have never heard of before.

“Yeah,” wrote a commenter called legally_cool.

I don’t care what people do in private but I’m not playing along with anyone’s fetish. Some TIMs get a boner from having their pronouns respected like wtf how is that normal behaviour.

Trans women … get boners from HAVING THEIR PRONOUNS RESPECTED? They get Pronoun Boners?

I’ve devoted much of my time over the last eight years trying to expose (and make some sense of) the weirdest sub-varieties of misogyny on planet Earth, but goddamn, TERF transmisogyny can get just as weird as manosphere misogyny, if not more so.

We Hunted the Mammoth is independent and ad-free, and relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

151 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Mayu Kitsune
Mayu Kitsune
3 years ago

As a trans women I can say my kink is indeed being treated with basic human decency and not having people want to murder me

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

spend five minutes in a TRA reddit community and you will see post after post of how sexy they think being a woman is. Things that genuine women never even think about.

Cis woman here. I had some body image issues as a teen and definitely had some conflicting feelings about my developing body, but sometimes, when I was in a confident mood, I would look at or feel my body and find it sexy that I was developing curves and get a little thrill from it. I have to imagine this is pretty normal. I don’t really feel that way any more because I’ve had many years to get used to having feminine curves. But it doesn’t seem surprising to me that trans women who have started to transition and started to see and feel female secondary sex characteristics for the first time would feel that same sort of euphoria and thrills that cis girls often feel during puberty.

Some TIMs get a boner from having their pronouns respected like wtf how is that normal behaviour.

Okay, so even if this were true, so? There’s nothing actually wrong with having a boner. Simply having a boner isn’t an imposition on anyone. It’s only an imposition if the person who has the boner you know, imposes it on someone else.

Also, do TERFs think all trans women are lesbians? All of their screeds seem to assume that trans women are all praying on cis women. They ignore that some trans women are into men only and some are ace.

Mayu Kitsune
Mayu Kitsune
3 years ago

Also for a bunch of “Feminists” terfs seem to love claiming women have are the only ones who can do or wear certain things (There are nonsexual crossdressers who just enjoy looking more fem and I’m sure Terfs with their conservatism disguised as feminism hate with a passion) They also super love that actual misogynistic idea that women are just always under attack from the concept of masculinity

Hexum7
Hexum7
3 years ago

Terfs most be a hoot at parties.

To highjacked the language of sexual liberation in favor of abject bigotry.

The only example I can think of imposing a fetish on others through dressing was that astro-physicist who wore a bondage themed shirt on television to celebrate his team’s achievements – but the shirt actually graphically depicted a fetish ( along with some unhealthy misogyny) . However I doubt that Shirt Guy , despite being a literal rocket scientist put anywhere near the conscious thought and emotional work Into his sartorial choice as transpeople do to how they express themselves; To reduce their entire path in life to a fetish is horrendous

Even The suspected scolds in “Woman Against Pornography” didn’t throw individual gender or sexual expression under the bus for valueless points in an oppression competition.

Mayu Kitsune
Mayu Kitsune
3 years ago

Also, do TERFs think all trans women are lesbians?

TERFs would never actually call any trans women a lesbian because as they will repeat at every second of everyday they think trans women are just cis men in dresses and any cis women who sleep with them are actually just straight liars or more horribly, bi (Gasp! also im pretty sure the cross diagram of TERFs and shitty gay people who hate bi people ais pretty much a wobbly circle). Also, have TERFs ever mentioned trans men? or even NB, genderfluid, or genderqueer people? cause like a TERF hash tag was literly built uppon the fact the people who made it and retweeted it didn’t know trans men existed? like the only other time I’ve seen them talk about trans men is when they basicly spout the as garbage and toxic idea that trans men really arnt men they are just pretending to be men to reclaim privilage which 1) just continues the theme that TERFs forget trans people are shat opun by society alot, and trans mens pain is being utterly never shown, and 2) they are reducing their identity to a fraud just as much as t**p reduces trans women into tricks

Mayu Kitsune
Mayu Kitsune
3 years ago

God TERFs make me so heated so let me give one last comment, any political lesbians who actually give a shit about gay people better not be TERFs (A good amount of them are) or racist (A good amount of them also are that) because you know who started the stonewall riots? one of the most important events in gay activism? Black trans women, the gay civil rights movement was built on the backs of trans women of colored and of course everyone wants to sweep it under the rug. Also yeah I hate when TERFs say trans women have “Privilege” over cis women because they dont, even before they figure out their trans they suffer from depression over their identity even if they cant finger why, and those who wish to be more feminine as kids usailly end up being abused by their parents, I will say it again, TERFs are just grifters using feminism to line their pockets and hate on people, and sometimes they even will hide their TERFness just to steal trans peoples money (There was a famous inccident on tumblr when a famous furry artist was outed as a TERF by a trans blogger, and this was after she showed off a trans women oc and was taking commissions from trans women)

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
3 years ago

I’m a cis man, but yeah, basic human decency is hot.

Shadowplay
Shadowplay
3 years ago

We don’t transition into being a new or different person. We become more ourselves.

How the fuck is that so difficult for these pillocks to understand?

Edit to add:

@Mayu Kitsune – thank you. I like learning. And yeah, fury at these fools is pretty much the only response they rate.

Jane Done
Jane Done
3 years ago

Relevant meme my gf sent me a while ago:
comment image

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

@KindaSortaHarmless
Cis woman, and agreed. So damn hot. Right up there with enthusiastic consent.

@Mayu Kitsune
I’m sorry you have to put up with TERF bullshit. They’re so damn shitty.

Brandy
Brandy
3 years ago

This is what keeps me from going out into the world as much as I should. I think about all the things I would like to do, but thinking about doing anything where I would be putting myself into a group of strangers makes me very anxious. The larger the group the greater the likelihood (in my mind, at least) that I would be confronted with someone who’s greatest priority, no matter the setting, would be to make me miserable in a public and very uncomfortable way.

I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but when I’m out socially my greatest desire is just to not be noticed.

Aron
Aron
3 years ago

The only people I despise more than MRAssholes are TERFS.

Also too HELLO WHTM! Longish-time reader, first time commenter.

Robert
Robert
3 years ago

It has long struck me that the two groups most angry/threatened by trans women are TERF lesbians and homophobic cis straight men. The first group insists that they’re straight men pretending to be women so they can sex up lesbians; the second, that they’re gay men pretending to be women so they can sex up straight men.

They can’t both be right, but they can both be wrong.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago

I support my sisters, not just my cisters. Life’s too short to judge other people by their genes or by what’s in their jeans.

Erin
Erin
3 years ago

As a cisgender woman, I can confirm that I do find my body sexy. At least, most of the time. It’s a wonderful feeling to look at myself in the mirror and think, “I look GOOD.” Don’t people of all genders like feeling sexy in their own skin? I’m no expert, but I’m guessing the reason trans women feel sexy after transitioning is that they feel comfortable and confident in their own skin like never before.

Ariblester
3 years ago

Something that struck me about this quote:

Why do I have to pretend how I think and feel to appease someone who has enjoyed privilege myself and other women never have?

Note the words “has enjoyed privilege”. Is arnaq asserting that privilege accrued pre-transition still carries over post-transition? How would that work, exactly? Does privilege work according to a ‘one-drop rule’ as well?

Or is it that being treated like a human being is a privilege that only men currently enjoy in this society, and therefore that feminism should fight for this privilege to be granted to women, but deny it to trans people, since they…already enjoy that privilege…uh.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
3 years ago

As a trans women

As a fellow colonial trans* entity, may I just say your correct use of the plural caused us to orgasm.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent, Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

Right, well, let’s see
Classic transmisogyny
On alleged F-threat side of the spectrum
A whole damn fleet
Claiming a demographic’s deceit
And denyin’ a proper chance to reflect ’em

But as it’s been said
It’s not just blue and red
There’s a flow between the two that makes ’em shiver
It can go the other way
And plus–well I gotta say
What am I? Chopped liver?

There’s he, there’s she, there’s them!
And a couple others in the mix
Best proud and loud and queer
Not somethin’ you can easily nix
Well not all of us stand together
But when birds of a feather
Stand true

The problem lies within you
They say when it’s staring them in the face
Tell us to seek the truth
When they’re a damn disgrace
Rudimentary biology
Used to object to our pharmacology
But they’re in 101
While’ we’re in 422 havin’ fun

Two factions wrong
And we press on
While you blame us for your sliver
Aimin’ your attacks
Between barracks
Then say we don’t deliver
Project yourselves
Upon our ranks and
‘Spect someone sent up the river
And honestly
I’ve asked before
Well, what am I, chopped liver?

Am I an offense to you?
Thinkin’ “she” don’t ring true
In my heart of hearts, oh! get my veins lanced!
Will you really ignore me
Or prefer to floor me
As some grand aberrance?

I stand alongside sisters, brothers
And gods only know how many others
And tell me, oh tell me, how all of us lie?
We’ve tried that before
And it left us all sore
So we want our slice of the euphoric pie

I know you won’t give us a chance
But I’ll never show my last dance

With false steps in front of me
I take my liberty
I know who I am
A search for our truth–
–and you say that’s uncouth?
Suppose you’re the real sham

They say that civilization
Can always be found upriver
Are you from there?
Am I meant to care?
Am I supposed to shiver?
No cirrhosis here
Guess you’re not my peer

But hey, guess I’m chopped liver

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

These people bother me to a level that I find difficult to express. And I have a lot of words to express with. All my love to my trans peeps, aggregate and otherwise. I am shocked daily at how deeply radical the idea of just accepting people for who they are is.

Also hello @Aron, welcome to the party! Please pull up a chair – hard wood only – and help yourself to the scented candles.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 years ago

TERFs are utterly vile. I wish that they would step on all the legos.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Welcome, Aron!

Bina
3 years ago

I’ve stopped calling them TERFs. Truly radical feminists don’t exclude any woman from consideration as a woman on the basis of what’s in her pants. Excluding/erasing a whole subgroup of women for such a prurient and ridiculous “reason” isn’t “gender critical”, it’s cisgender-normative. Nothing radical OR feminist about that. It’s as old as the hills, and any scientist specializing in the genetics of sex and gender would tell you the same.

So instead, I’ve taken to calling them FARTs. Feminism-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobes. Because when your understanding of sex and gender is stuck at Grade 7 level ca. 1960, and you don’t realize that the Nazis destroyed trans-affirming psychological studies dating back to the 1920s (or even earlier!), and you refuse to reformulate your theories even when confronted with hard evidence that your understanding is lagging well behind reality, you’re a reactionary. And if you’re scared of the wholly imaginary spectre of a female-identifying person with a penis trying to seduce you out of your “political lesbianism” (which is a fucked-up ideology in and of itself), you’re a transphobe, plain and simple. And you are appropriating feminism to justify your baseless fear and your reactionary ideology.

And you really, REALLY need to cut that shit out, because it’s contributing to an environment where trans women’s lives are in danger from people who want to erase them not only from theory, but from existence itself.

Gijoel
Gijoel
3 years ago

I don’t know what it’s like to under go hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery but I imagine it would be painful and uncomfortable at times. Not to mention the financial burden.why anyone would think that you would endure these procedures just to spy on women in toilets is beyond me.

Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
3 years ago

What IS it with all the fucking transphobes at the moment? I’ve just been cleaning up an infestation in the comments section of one of my favourite sites. Is it the full moon? Mating season? Did someone spill a box of transphobe bait somewhere?

All trans Mammotheers…you are valid. Your gender is valid. Nobody has the right to decide who you are, but you. Your choice to fight for your gender, when the world is trying to push you back into one that doesn’t fit you, is all the proof necessary of how badass you are.

Fuck transphobes.

Megi Stardust
Megi Stardust
3 years ago

@ Bina
FARTs made me laugh out loud

@Scildfreja
It amazes me too that accepting people as they are is such a radical notion.

1 2 3 7
%d bloggers like this: