open thread traitor in chief trump

Open thread on this bullshit, brought to you by The Hives’ “Hate to say I told you so”


By David Futrelle

Well, today was a another disgrace.

Thanks, Trump, for making it even more blindingly obvious where your loyalties lie. You too, GOP. You too, Fox News.

Here’s a song that seems more than usually relevant today.

And some tweets:

Hey look, it’s some treason with a side order of white supremacy (or maybe the other way around):

Or, you know, start immediate impeachment hearings.

This will be the standard MAGA/Fox News line within a day.

And oh, there’s this too:

To be fair, the National Rifle Association never specified WHICH nation they were working on behalf of.

This pretty much sums up the day:

38 replies on “Open thread on this bullshit, brought to you by The Hives’ “Hate to say I told you so””

*pokes her head in*

I just need help to scrub my country clean after those two turdbuckets left. JFC, I did not want them to come over here.

Happy to help.

Oops, it turns out the entire planet needs to be scrubbed. Damn it!

* * *

Also, Maria Butina: she’s been arrested, but at least she has the comfort of knowing that any moment now — if it hasn’t already happened — she’ll be the alt-right’s new It Girl.


That line about footage of his rallies being shown in documentaries in 20 years with overlays of ominous music, and them getting to watch it live…


I’m going to risk revealing my own ignorance, but what specifically did he say that’s considered treasonous? I don’t understand specifically what people are outraged by. To me it just sounded like the usual terrible Trump stuff and nobody is going to do anything about it. I guess I’m just completely brainwashed to this being normal now.

100% convinced the entire GOP is in on it and will beg Russia to uberfuck with the november Mid Term Elections.


Mainly it was during the press conference. An AP reporter asked Trump if he believed all the US intelligence or Putin on the matter of election interference. Trump said he respects his intelligence director but Putin really strongly denied interfering and he can’t imagine what motives Russia could possibly have. In other words, he confirmed on foreign soil that he sides with Putin over anything else. He also ranted about Hillary and her emails again.

So yeah, it’s nothing new. But he was just so open about it. On foreign soil. Next to an adversarial authoritarian head of state. After declaring the press and our usual allies in the EU enemies. The optics were so bad it woke up some of the people who were usually really committed to both sidesism and centrism, I guess.

@ calmdown

In the strict legal sense (as opposed to the colloquial ‘unpatriotic’ meaning) it’s probably this bit that’s relevant…

in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Thanks guys for explaining. That’s what I thought it was but I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something. I guess I, like a lot of people, just don’t understand why others are so shocked at his behavior. I knew since the Access Hollywood tape came and went that this man could do or say almost anything and still get away with it. I wish this would change, but I just don’t feel much hope for it now.

weirwoodtreehugger wrote:

The optics were so bad it woke up some of the people who were usually really committed to both sidesism and centrism, I guess.

I really, really wish I could believe that was true, but I honestly don’t see that “waking” lasting more than a day or two. They’ll be blaming progessives for making Trump lick Putin’s ass in short order, or trying to claim that Hillary would have done worse.

Betcha $5 it’ll happen by Friday….

frankly, if the cambridge analytica confessions didn’t convince people of the truly maniacally evil nature of the entire trump/republican government/facade/scandal, nothing in all of the known universe will.

We’re talking literal, irrefutable video and audio evidence of unfathomably powerful men bluntly speaking, nay bragging, like freaking emperor palatine, like some sort of comic book cartoon super-villain. I would have never even imagined in my entire life that people that truly evil could even exist, I would have written it off as just extremist conspiracy theory if I hadn’t seen the footage myself (though I might have suspected if I were in a particularly cynical mood). But most of america seemingly just shrugged and forgot it faster than yesterday’s memes.

I’m afraid of this too. And it isn’t like the last 18 years of elections haven’t had issues here and there, going for the understatement. China’s President just made himself basically president for life. Do we really think that the hyper competitive and narcissistic Trump is going to settle for less? I fear that too many people just think this will pass and those of us who don’t have no idea what to do that is effective.

@Alan Robertshaw

That covers it, but will anyone do anything with it. Treason in a US President. I really never thought I’d see this day.

@Jane Doe

Right there with you. I don’t know what is going on but being forced to confront evil in every aspect of life seems to be the order of the day. Like you in ways and at levels I never thought possible. These are truly frightening times.

Mea- I would totally see that movie! I won’t be surprised if they do make a movie about this one day.

Well, it seems blatantly obvious to me what’s going on here.

Trump and the Republicans know damn well that Russia helped Trump win, and they are happy about it and grateful to Putin, because they don’t care about democracy, they only care about Republicans winning, even if it means they win unfairly.

The first election I voted in (because it was the first election I was old enough to vote in) was the 2000 presidential election, when the Supreme Court decided to give the presidency to Bush, even though Gore won the popular vote.

Right after that we get 9/11, and the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Imagine how differently that may have gone if Gore was president.

When the 2008 election came around, I was genuinely afraid that the Republicans would refuse to give up the presidency, and would pull something to give Bush a third term, or make Cheney or McCain president, and was quite relieved when Obama became president. Phew! Maybe democracy still works after all.

But then comes the 2010 midterm election and Census. Republicans took over most of the state legislatures and were able to gerrymander them so that Republicans get more seats in Congress than Democrats even though they get fewer votes. After that, Congress was able to block everything Obama tried to do, including blocking him from appointing Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court.

And then we get Trump, who is even worse than GWB, and outright colluded with Russia to rig the 2016 election in his favor.

Now Trump might be able to appoint as many as four justices to the Supreme Court while he’s president, since he’s already got two (one that was stolen), and I think at least two more of our remaining justices are in their late 70’s or 80’s.

And now I’m really afraid that the 2018 elections will be stolen too. Despite enthusiasm on the left, there’s nothing to stop Russia and the Republicans from interfering again and stopping the so-called “blue wave” from happening, and maybe even making Congress MORE Republican and purging any remaining anti-Trump Republicans.

Next Donald Trump will be appointed president for life, and the only thing that will get rid of him is the fact that he is in his 70’s and lives on fast food. Once he dies, maybe Don. Jr. or Ivanka will be our next president. The U.S. will become a sham democracy like Russia or China where we still have “elections,” but the outcome is always predetermined.

I really hope that I’m wrong, but then again the GWB presidency turned out to be much worse than I thought it would be. Back then I even looked into what it would take to emigrate to another country, and found out it’s pretty impossible for me. So much for “If you don’t like America, then leave!” since it turns out that it’s extremely difficult.

And yeah, I know it’s fashionable to say that the U.S. has never been a democracy and has always been evil, but I dunno, America’s done some good things too.

But the Republicans are on their way to permanent single-party rule, and they’re against everything the government does that I like. And to think that I thought for a little while there that we’d get single-payer healthcare in my lifetime. Now it looks like abortion will become illegal again in my lifetime.

I really hope I’m wrong and the blue wave happens the November and Trump gets defeated by a Democrat in 2020, but I know that the Republicans are going to do everything they can, bend every rule they can, maybe even do things that are outright illegal, to hold onto power. Between Russia’s help, partisan gerrymandering, and the weakening of voting rights, at best we’ve got a HUGE headwind in November. And if we don’t win in November, I’m afraid that will probably be it. Republicans will ensure they never lose again.

I can’t help but think of the path Rob Ford took in Toronto in terms of a media storm surrounding something embarrassing. Ford denied his crack video, accused the media of hounding him, admitted to something softer in an attempt to “humanize” himself (drinking), tried to bury it in other stories (corruption, subways), and eventually admitted it in an attempt to get ahead of it.

Then the video was made public and the media were proven right. Made no difference to Ford Nation, who respond only to grievance, but he will be forever etched into the minds of the average Torontonian as “the crack mayor.”

Unless Donald Trump gets abdominal cancer or Congressional Republicans start doing their jobs, I don’t see this ending the same way.


Next Donald Trump will be appointed president for life,

You can’t just handwave this away; constitutional amendments are not trivial things, and the republican party is not united behind trump.

It is also very clearly the case that the country is not united behind trump, and trying to impose rule on a country filled with unhappy armed people is likely to result in civil unrest and secession rather than move smoothly into a dictatorship.

The country isn’t united behind Trump? But he himself said that everyone wanted him to be president so he is trying to become president a second time. (that sentence of his was so stupid…)

Even my mother said, that she believes that Trump wanted to have the power of Putin, he wants to be a dictator.
I have some doubt if the republicans let him. I thing they are happy after 8 years to get some less stresful usful idiot.

To get some better news, on I did just read, that there is a collection of short fiction from N.K.Jemisin coming that fall, from previous work, higly recomended. Another articel is Five Books That Will Restore Your Faith in Humanity. (Yes, needed)

I didn’t know about Hawaii. Not that one more item on our overwhelming list of imperial sins adds or detracts.

What is bothering me is the rise in individual evil that is either developing or being revealed. Not just our leaders either. The depth of the racism and hate of anyone even a little different that I hear from everyday people frightens me.

I hope we can push it back in November but I too have my doubts and fears. More than ever before I feel like I understand the people living through the thirties and not just the Germans. Everyone is waiting for the other shoe to drop or for terrible anger to be vindicated in a bloody shower of gleeful apocalyptic violence. Worst of all, not knowing what to do to interrupt the cycle of history.

Aside, I think Presidents Trump and Putin absolutely recognize the megalomaniacal tyrant in each other but I think Putin is smarter and as @ Alan Robertshaw pointed out more than capable of successfully manipulating Donald Trump on any number of levels.

Trump appears to be one of those sorts of people who is so thoroughly self-convinced that he cannot be manipulated that it makes him relatively easy to manipulate because he will always find some way to talk himself into believing it was his own idea all along. That or forget about it in a couple of days anyway.


Trump being president for life was hyperbole on my part, or at least, I hope it was. I dunno, even without a constitutional amendment, Trump may be president for life anyway just because of his age unhealthy habits.

But it looks to me like the Republicans are pretty united behind Trump. A few people like Flake or McCain say some critical things on Twitter, but they haven’t really done much of substance.

And the Republicans control all three branches of the federal government and most of the state governments.

And I’ve seen some Trump fans say that they look forward to Ivanka becoming the first female president after dad is done, so they really are already thinking about a dynasty. And maybe Russia, coupled with voter suppression and gerrymandering, will help to ensure that happens.

I hope I’m wrong. This is kind of a worst case scenario I’m thinking of here.

Trump could find a reason to declare martial law and under that cancel the elections indefinitely. A lot of progressives feared George W Bush would do that. I thought it was silly. I knew he wouldn’t. Trump on the other hand, I don’t think there’s any horrible behavior that can be ruled out. It does seem unlikely, but given how Trump likes to go against norms, undermine institutions and push boundaries and given how he doesn’t get push back from his party for this behavior, I think it’s not out of the question entirely.

Any Mammotheers in the district of Massie from Kentcucky*? Because he was just on MSNBC flat out saying that it’s not a big deal that Russia hacked into our election systems because it didn’t change any of the votes. He really needs to hear from some of his constituents for this.

I bring this up not to be pedantic, but because OTHER people will surely be pedantic.

Trump isn’t guilty of treason. Trump can’t be guilty of treason. As defined by the US constitution, treason is a crime of supporting a country we are at war with. If we are not at a state of war, then there is no possibility of someone committing treason. This is why the Rosenbergs were only convicted of espionage for selling nuclear technology to the Russians. We weren’t at war, so it wasn’t treason.

I do not mean this as a defense of Trump in any way. I’m just saying that if you run around accusing Trump of treason, you’ll be mired in pedantic twits using the technicality of his crimes not being STRICTLY treason to distract from the main point, which is that he’s providing aid and comfort to totalitarian, murderous assholes and undermining democracy.


Another articel …

And my first thought on reading that typo was, “Is an articel someone who is celibate, but only for artistic reasons?” : – )


The armed people aren’t the unhappy ones. I always point out things like this to too-far-left “revolutionaries” who think “when the revolution comes” something good will happen. When the revolution comes, the people (almost all conservatives) with all the guns finally get their excuse to shoot liberals, and enforce a completely un-moderate too-far-right conservative rule. It would be Afghanistan when the Mujahideen rode into towns in their pickup trucks and rifles and started beating women in the streets (for being outside their homes in normal clothing).

Whoever has the guns makes the rules after a revolution. Who has them now? That’s who will win.

I think that analysis leaves out a big chunk of who owns the guns. Ultimately, the outcome would likely come down to how the US military split between the two sides. If a large part of it remained loyal to the constitutional order that part might prevail over the neo-Nazi militias and the turncoat portion of the military. The whole of the military takes an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We’d find out just how many fully understood and would adhere to that oath …

“Hey look, it’s some treason with a side order of white supremacy (or maybe the other way around)”

It’s not only the other way around – it’s the way that the Russians are leading the GOP traitors who went to Moscow on July 4th around by the nose.

They were all from states full of white nationalist constituents who call Putin the “savior of white nationalism”, just like the white nationalists do in BREXIT and Europe. And even the UK saw that way before we did.

It’s “all in Plato”, as the professor said in the first Narnian book, but we’re not going to be able to deal with it over here as long as even progressives stay in denial about it.

The analysis isn’t hard – what’s hard is getting white people who are addicted to appearing “good” while turning their faces away from the white nationalism and pretending its more covert manifestations “aren’t really a problem” to see that not only IS it a problem, it’s a REALLY BIG problem and it may well be a big enough problem to break our country apart from the inside, which even George Washington warned us about.

Here’s the real problem. Trump already said in 2016 that he would refuse to accept the election results if he lost. What if he loses in 2020 and refuses to step down? Will the Republicans keep sending sad tweets, or will they actually stand up and act like adults who can think for themselves?

Also…off-topic, but the incels have a new hero, one Drew Planten, who killed and raped one woman and was planning on repeating himself when he was arrested. He ended up killing himself. Anyway, there’s a thread praising him on They have called him a hero, and said that he was the ‘real victim.’

Also, all the links in your articles lead not to the promised article, but to a page offering ropes for sale. I think you’ve been hacked. 😞

Perceptive insights. I wrote something similar the other day, but more tldr.

You should join us in the non comments at Wonkette.


There’s now a video summary of this recent white nationalist shit in Poland and elsewhere:

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