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Incel.me commenters agree: Women should fear death if they turn down a guy for a date

Reminder: This guy thinks the solution to male violence is to make sure violent males can get dates

By David Futrelle

If you have any lingering doubt that incels — or at least a significant percentage of them — are straight-up terrorists, here’s a lovely conversation taking place tonight on Incels.me, one of the, er, leading forums for so-called “involuntary celibates” online.

Here’s the full text, with some thoughts:

A woman should be deathly afraid of rejecting a guy. When a guy asks her out she should be made aware of what a horrible fate will be left on the guy if she rejects him, and the only way to accomplish this is through instilling fear on the females.

Hate to break it to you, Crustaciouse, but women already know that men often react to rejection with anger, insults, and in too many cases, actual violence.

Whenever a guy gets rejected he should scare the female, go on a shocking rant right in front of her and make it seem as if he lost his sanity and is ready to kill the female.

Men already do this, too many of them, all the fucking time. One of the reasons incels can’t get dates is that many of them give off a clear vibe that they are these kinds of guys. So women do what they can to make sure these guys can’t get close enough to them to even ask for a date.

If enough guys do this then rejections will completely be destroyed.

Sorry, fellas, but it’s not going to happen. Partly because women realize that saying “yes” to these sorts of guys is as dangerous as saying “no,” if not more so.

Second step is the actual date, if the female thinks she can just ghost the guy and not go on the date then she must be proven wrong, these females should be doxed and stalked.

Threatening phone calls should be made to her house and the guy should leave threatening objects at her door such as a knife covered in animal blood.

Fucking hell. This is why women give out fake phone numbers.

And this is why it’s so fucking creepy when people like Jordan Peterson essentially argue that society should figure out a way to make sure that at least some very unlucky women will be desperate enough, or pressured enough, to date and even marry these violent pieces of shit.

Guys who react to rejection with violence and threats of violence are pretty fucking likely to use violence in relationships to get what they want. Peterson’s vision of “enforced monogamy” — despite his attempts to deny the implications of his language — would basically amount to “enforced domestic violence.”

He is basically demanding that society give in to the sort of incel threats we see in this Incels.me thread.

So you may wonder: is there anyone on Incels.me willing to challenge this sort of thinking?

Well. in this particular case, nope! In fact, they’ve somehow managed to convince themselves that women are actually really into being threatened by violent losers.

 Warmest Black Misfortune Teller - Joined:Nov 9, 2017 Messages:536 56 minutes ago#2 I hear they are aroused by violent dark triad behavior. UnfortunatelyINCEL98 UnfortunatelyINCEL98 RememberTheDeadShooters - Joined:Feb 27, 2018 Messages:4,718 55 minutes ago#3 they are if they are alone with no onlookers..

And then there’s this guy, who really seems taken by the “murder” idea.

I think this would be great. A man should be able to kill a woman if she rejects him. Some men do this in India.

In case you are thinking that these guys are outliers on Incels.me, if not actual trolls trying to make incels look bad, nope! The OP has posted more than 4900 comments on the site in the seven months he’s been on it; the murder dude has posted 600. No trolls are that dedicated.

NOTE: I learned of this horrific post from @Justincelthings on Twitter, who documents a great deal of truly awful incel crap. Definitely worth a follow, if you can stomach it.

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pitshade
pitshade
3 years ago

“A nation of laws…” is a common misquoting of John Adams, “A government of laws, and not of men.” While the usage of Man to refer to Human may well be outdated (though in fact was the original meaning) the quote refers to the idea that the law applies equally to all. We have often (usually) fallen short of the ideal, but the ideal is still worthy.

Iseult The Idle
Iseult The Idle
3 years ago

@Kevin – some of us are quietly hoping for a Charles II solution.

Was this the reason Trump and his minions have been making so much noise about pardons and unlimited executive power lately?

Not sure about that, but it is certainly why Trump disavowed Manafort saying “if we knew he was under investigation we would have hired someone else” on Twitter.

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

Just gonna start with a round of applause to EJ for that gorgeous smackdown of incels.

Then I’m going to highlight this particular line:

See, apart from the bad hygiene and the violence fetish, you don’t look that different from the rest of us, and that’s a problem.

And I get the sense that these guys really view themselves the same way that the Narrator from Fight Club does when he’s at the height of his relationship with Tyler Durden: that they have somehow tapped into some primordial truth about the world around them, especially women. “I… am enlightened.”

Convenient that it doesn’t require actually knowing or interacting with any women at all. And while they see themselves as Tyler Durden, all we see is an obnoxious asshole, often a pathetic one.

They talk about it like it’s something that will change them forever, some kind of mystical transformative experience that is being denied them by a cruel society, as if they were caterpillars not being allowed to turn into butterflies, when losing your virginity is like: “That was really nice….but I’m exactly the same asshole I was when I was eating breakfast this morning and oh shit I’m late for work.”

Well, popular culture and society have certainly built it up as “the thing” that is the dividing line between boyhood and manhood… odd that it doesn’t reference the woman involved, the woman who has to offer up her body for this “rite of passage.” Build it up that much, no wonder they have a skewed idea of what it entails or how you feel about yourself afterwards. Also build it up that much, and no wonder you start to see the grievance collector types resorting to what is terrorism. This is literally terrorism what these incels are describing here.

I suspect that many of them will be disgusted and disappointed by the sex act itself, not least because it won’t be much like porn.

Bingo. It’s messy, hard on the pelvis and requires endurance. It’s fun, but I typically get more enjoyment out of a good walk in the park.

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponized Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponized Vagina
3 years ago

It’s interesting, actually, thinking about the correlation between the way these types treat women and the way they think of martial arts.

They turn up at class thinking they can just…do it. That all they have to to do is step into the room, and they’ll be Bruce Lee. It’s that same entitled attitude. I deserve a hot woman without having to work at it. I deserve to be a superb fighter within seconds of showing up – without having to work at it. Guys who – to put it kindly – are not the fittest. And in both cases their response is to get angry when it doesn’t happen that way.

The reality of learning any martial art is that you will a) fall on your ass a lot b) spend most of your first few weeks feeling like you can’t even stand still the way they want c) inevitably be humiliatingly beaten by someone tiny and d) you will never be a great fighter. Very few people are even good enough to be full-time professional, most of those people will have been training non-stop since they were children, and to live that life full time demands a lot of sacrifice and focus. Which guys of this kind can’t manage.

But I have seen dozens of these guys who think they are just owed a black belt. The one good thing I feel about this is that none of them (none of the ones I’ve seen, anyway) have the patience to get one. They flounce after four lessons tops. And that is a good thing, because who needs these assholes to weaponise themselves.

Fabe
Fabe
3 years ago

Haha yes. Someone once asked my instructor what to do if someone pulled a gun on you, and he said “You do whatever they want.”

reminds me of a twist on a old nursery rhyme from mad magizine

Jack Be nimble
Jack Be quick
Jack meet mugger
Jack give kick
Jack show quickness
Jack Show skill
Jack learns a bullet quicker still

Fabe
Fabe
3 years ago

Haha yes. Someone once asked my instructor what to do if someone pulled a gun on you, and he said “You do whatever they want.”

yeah that reminds me of this old mad magazine article called ‘Violent mother goose’. one of rewritten nursery rhymes when like this

Jack be nimble
Jack be quick
Jack meet mugger
Jack give kick
Jack show quickness
Jack shows skill
Jack learns a bullet’s quicker still

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Fuck all the people who have been pushing false flag conspiracy theories about Parkland survivors

https://www.local10.com/news/family-of-stoneman-douglas-advocate-david-hogg-swatted-at-home

And do yourselves a favor and don’t read the comments. They are full of alt-reichers victim blaming, ranting about the “Democrat party” and pushing conspiracy theories.

I hope whoever did this is charged with whatever the steepest penalty possible for this is. Attempted murder?

Fabe
Fabe
3 years ago

Sorry for the muliti posts everyone . I though I had deleted the extra one .

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
3 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
I think an argument can be made for a charge of terrorism. After all, this was clearly politically motivated and intended for its chilling effect.

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

@Violet

When I did Tae Kwon Do for a year, our Dojang had one of those guys. He thought that he could do everything because he “watched videos” on all the patterns, but only ever showed up once a month.

And yeah, there’s really not much room for pride in that environment. You’re a student in a classroom and sometimes your teacher is going to be the 13-year-old daughter of the owner who also happens to be a 3rd dan black belt. Who incidentally didn’t shy away from giving a gentle kick to the calf when my blocking stance stance wasn’t wide enough.

Fabe
Fabe
3 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I know,the comment are pretty sick on that story. most of them are people calling for the victims death for speaking out against the epidemic of mass shootings .

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
3 years ago

@Dalillama

I NEED THAT OTTER IN MY LIFE. It makes those adorable squeaky noises, which incidentally, my dog hates any toys that make such sounds to the point I have to carefully un-stitch, remove the squeaker and repair the opening for her to be interested. (Seriously, I’ve had to perform the de-squeakifying operation many times now. Don’t know what to do with the squeakers yet, got a small pile stashed in a drawer though.) Not that I’d de-squeak an otter, that would be mean and take away one of the most adorable features of the otter! Other than the very plush looking silky coat, cute wee paws, and apparent love for snuggles underneath the blankets.

OMG the wee paws! I like raccoons too, just can’t bring them indoors ’cause y’know…wild animals that shouldn’t be brought into the house if you want it to not be torn to pieces while the raccoon finds that inside your walls is the ideal spot for building a new cubby to sleep in. I hear they’re also bad about snatching food. BUT THE PAWS! WEE ONES!

Yes, I feel much better now. 🙂

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fabe

the comment are pretty sick on that story

I’m currently trying to name an emotion that’s a combination of despair and rage.

But this, I think, shows the necessity of identifying such people if possible and exposing them to public scrutiny.

These are, presumably, gun owners publicly expressing an intention to kill a named individual. People should know who they are, and the police should be alerted.

Now I’m not naive enough to think the police will do anything. But I would suggest this. Make sure you get the name of the officer you speak to. If they ask why you need to know tell them straight, that if the lad does come to harm, the media always like an individual to scapegoat for ignoring the warnings. The personal touch makes for better copy, and photographs.

You don’t have to make it an explicit threat; just remind them of what would happen.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 years ago

Regarding martial arts:
I took karate for a while in high school, and aiki-jujutsu for a while in university as well. The judo throws in the latter were fun, because that sort of hip throw rewards the lower centre of gravity. Meaning that not only could a 4’10” (147cm) woman throw a 6’6″ (198cm) man, it was actually easier for her to throw him than vice versa, because he had to actually lift her to throw her while she didn’t have to lift him at all.

And yeah, the first several lessons are in ‘how to take a fall’, for what should be obvious reasons to anybody thinking about it: you teach people how to minimize getting hurt if something goes wrong in sparring before you teach them how to potentially hurt somebody else.

(We spent most of one aiki-jujutsu session practising a particular form of breakfall where you had to grasp the belt on somebody else’s gi, then jump over your own arm and land safely on the other side without letting go. The reason for this became obvious several sessions later when we were taught the fourth core technique, kote maki gaeshi, which involves a waist-height wrist lock that jams the target’s elbow into their own solar plexus; jumping over your own arm was about the only way to safely get out of that.)

That said, the only recent use I’ve made of my martial arts lessons has been in writing combat scenes for a cyberpunk story I’ve been working on.

Kevin
Kevin
3 years ago

@ Iseult The Idle

Charles I was the one whose block was lopped off, makes me wonder if the author of the now – suppressed ‘Trump severed head’ meme was on to something.

Charles II was a whole different parcel of problems. His inability to keep it in his trousers contributed to more than one succession crisis.

sunnysombrera
3 years ago

@EJ, fabulous letter. To bank off of it:

Hey incels who complain of loneliness, let me tell you about a guy who used to work where I work. He was damn popular man. Everybody liked him and was sad when he left. I don’t know if any of the ladies had a crush on him, but to him it didn’t matter much. You want to know how he got so popular? He was good at making everybody feel like they were important to him. When he talked to you, he had his full focus on you and a big bright smile. He gave genuine compliments. He was warm and open and treated everyone equally.

What he didn’t do was what you lot do. He didn’t blithely categorise people with names like Chads, Stacies, normies, and then resent the lot of them. He didn’t view women as a means to an end or think they owed him something. He didn’t think that of anyone in fact. He would have preferred not to be single, but never placed blame, not even on himself. He didn’t think he was superior, even in that weird “I’m ugly and hopeless” way you manage to do it. Never threw a tantrum, never threatened anything. Never believed he should get things he wanted just for existing and/or being male.

Incels, you have a lot to learn. But you won’t bother, will you. It’s so much easier to just whine on the Internet and feel spurned by people you’ve never even met for fucks sake. Lazy bastards, get off your asses and learn how to socialise effectively. IT’S. NOT. HARD. And no people aren’t judging you by your looks, which aren’t even that bad most of the time! You don’t get written off by women because of whatever stupid excuse you can think of, it’s because you don’t make the effort to treat them as you want to be treated. How can you, when you won’t even see us as people? But then you do see us as brainless, so of course it doesn’t occur to you that we turn down men because there’s no compatibility, or chemistry, or they’re just giving off too many creepster vibes. Nawwwwww it must be appearance!

Quit your toxic mindset, if you can stomach the idea of viewing others as equal to you. If you can’t, then expect further ridicule from those of us who can. You’d have nobody to blame but yourselves, since this basic level of human decency we are asking from you is a pretty low bar to pass. Just stop thinking you are owed sex and relationships and that you’re a victim of society for not getting any.

sunnysombrera
3 years ago

God dammit the mammoth ate my comment. It was a long one. I’ll repost, but if it ends up as a double then please delete one of them David. Cheers.

sunnysombrera
3 years ago

Never mind it did come through. But now I have no edit window to delete the above.

Orion
Orion
3 years ago

As far as I know, “terrorism” as such is not actually a crime in the US. We have definitions of it that law enforcement agencies use to organize their own strategy, but terrorists go down for stuff like arson, murder, conspiracy to commit same, possession of illegal weapons, and so on.

There was a high-profile prosecution of a SWATter recently, but in a case where someone actually died. If no one died, I think most prosecutors would be wary of going for attempted murder because intent is a heavy lift.

There’s no shortage of potentially-applicable laws, though. There are a bunch of crimes related to interfering with law enforcement, criminal harassment, crimes of negligence, and crimes to do with intentional infliction of pain and distress. So far, SWATters have been getting off easy, but as a lay observer I believe that’s due to lack of will more than lack of laws.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 years ago

@Orion:
Agreed. And on the ‘lack of will’ part, I note that going after SWATters implicitly means the police have to admit that they got tricked and used. I suspect that’s a non-trivial part of why they’ve been getting off easy.

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponized Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponized Vagina
3 years ago

……do I seriously live in a world where someone thinks it’s legit to do something that terrifying? to a teenager? and his family? because he has expressed an opinion they disagree with?

OK. Wow. Um….nothing to say to that, actually. If you can’t understand what the problem is, I’m not going to bother trying to explain it.

In other news, I saw Patti Smith on Sunday night and it is the first time for ages I have felt hopeful about the world. There were thousands of people there and she had so much punk energy. I genuinely feel like she could probably incinerate MGTOWs with a look. She genuinely did not give a shit about anything except her music and her message. It’s the age of Instagram and she hadn’t even brushed her hair. It was at a festival; there were a lot of other bands, and all these millennial types were there who started off not really knowing who she was. By the end they were dancing around madly. And she played one of my favourite songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWGk2R2gHEU And I walked away from that thinking: in a world where Patti Smith and people like her exist, there is no way these assholes will get their woman-hating white-supremacy alt-reich.

Sorry, boys. It’s just not going to happen. There’s too many voices, too much individuality, too much education. Too many people who can think for themselves. You can threaten people, and I’m sure you will. You can hurt people, and I’m sure you will. You can kill people, and, sadly, I’m sure you will. And you will gain some support. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. In the end, you will lose. And you are going to be a footnote in history like the fucking dinosaurs you are. Bye, Felicia! xx

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

People like this are the reason I carry bear mace.

I won’t kill them, because fuck sinking to their level, but I won’t hesitate to lay some fucking hurt on someone who tries any of that “Dark Triad Edgelord” bullshit.

I’m not here to be intimidated. I spent ten years with an asshole like that who had power over me because he dated my mom. I had to put up with his terrorism every single moment of every single day. I had to walk on eggshells constantly to avoid his wrath.

Not one more fucking second. I’m not a child anymore and I refuse to put up with that as an adult. Especially from someone who wants me to be in a relationship (or even just get some sex) with them.

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

@sunnysombrera

Lazy bastards, get off your asses and learn how to socialise effectively. IT’S. NOT. HARD.

Shit, I step up and keep conversations going at social gatherings and I’m never comfortable around people. Any number of birthdays, Thanksgivings, Christmases, I’m the one who keeps the dead air away with interesting topics. That’s right, me, the single guy actually socializes better than a lot of the couples that are there. And if I, the guy with anxiety issues, can do it, you can too. It just takes having something relevant to say and telling it in an engaging manner and listening to others when they have engaging stories.

Seriously, I blew everybody’s mind when I told them that George Brown was actually an important historical figure and not just some guy they named a College on Davenport after.

Hell, if anything, I find what the couples talk about to be unbearably dull. It’s always about business trips, home improvement or gardening. It’s probably why I’m so much more engaged online; say what you will about furries, at least they’re interesting.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Lumipuna:

Reminds me of what I read years ago in a Finnish humor magazine, about “traditional Western self-defense arts”. It named some arts, that in English context might be called such as “Jo King” and “Haftago”.

Traditional Finnish self-defence art: “perkele” and a broom:

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Violet the Vile:

They turn up at class thinking they can just…do it. That all they have to to do is step into the room, and they’ll be Bruce Lee. It’s that same entitled attitude. I deserve a hot woman without having to work at it. I deserve to be a superb fighter within seconds of showing up – without having to work at it. Guys who – to put it kindly – are not the fittest. And in both cases their response is to get angry when it doesn’t happen that way.

Well, every computer game I’ve played, I’ve been able to “just do it” after, at most, a short tutorial level. So I’m sure real live must be the same.

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