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Non-Trump Open Thread for Not Talking About Trump: May 2017 Ten Year Orgy Edition

That orgy ain’t gonna last ten years if the shark gets on the raft, dudes

An Open Thread for people who want to talk about anything other than that man in the White House. (Talk about that man here. There’s also an Open Thread for Personal Stuff here.)

No Trolls, no MRAs, no nonsense. Well, no bad nonsense. Good nonsense is fine.

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Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
5 years ago

@Fabe

My MC name is the same as here but without the blank space.

Jesalin
Jesalin
5 years ago

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/transgender-rights-bill-female-born-spaces-1.4110634

Two feminists are warning the Senate’s legal and constitutional affairs committee that passing the federal transgender rights bill could threaten the existence of exclusively “female-born” women’s spaces, like rape crisis centres, a controversial argument that has ignited a debate over who should call themselves a woman.

“We are worried that this well-intentioned legislation will be used to undermine the rights of women and the crucial work of women’s groups,” Hilla Kerner, a collective member of the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women’s Shelter, told the Red Chamber committee studying Bill C-16.

Opinions?

Personally I think it sounds like a whole bunch of TERF bullshit.

LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo

@ Jesalyn

A rape crisis center that’s for women only sounds like some bullshit to me, even before the TERFiness. And it positively reeks of TERF.

PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
5 years ago

Jesalin,

This pisses me off to no end.

Yeag, it does reek of TERF bullshit, and I hope they don’t fucking prevail. Assholes.

IBH Ardipithecus
IBH Ardipithecus
5 years ago

Spyro (our blind cat of “bump fuckit, bump fuckit” fame) has been in the wars. The local baduns have sensed his weakness, and have invaded his territory. He was recently chased in through his catflap, and bitten twice on his rear as he went in. The bites have infected so he now has two large bald holes in his skin. And we have large vet’s bills.

He is an unhappy mogs.

I’m going to invest in a super soaker.

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

@Bina
Cole and Marmalade! I love those two. So cute

Oh poor Spyro 🙁 Hope we recovers quickly

Buffalo Headroom (it doesn't have to make sense)

Who likes big butts, they cannot lie?

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Ariblester

If you’ll permit me to impose, I’d like to continue along this thread. Do you see any potential issues concerning people forming corporations as an end-run against limits on personal wealth accumulation?

Not really; see below.

Will inheritance be permitted in such a society?

Not really; it’s honestly a severely problematic concept in a lot of ways, and frankly causes more trouble than it serves. I mean, Grandma’s antique dagger or your dear old dad’s monogrammed cufflinks, sure, but not massive wealth transfers.

How would such a society impact individual craftsmen (who may require capital investment in excess of the universal income)?

The establishment of a ‘right to capital’, whereby a fund is set up to provide artists, artisans, and collectives of same with the means to set themselves up. Existing cooperatives pay regularly into the fund, and thus does the whole thing roll back over.

And does “economic democracy” refer to “voting with your dollars”, or is it something else entirely?

Something else altogether. It means having a say in your economic life as well as in your political one*. To wit, it means worker cooperatives/syndicalism. (This is where we address the wealth through corporations thing above: If everyone in the company gets an equal vote, nobody’s going to get voted the lion’s share of the value they produce. )

*And political organization is a whole other deal, which I’m not going to address in this comment

And I personally don’t think that it was imperialism per se as much as trade that led to humans being able to settle in such extreme places.

Yup

(But then who would build them up, and how would the path of said lines be decided?

The actual building would be done by people with machines, same as now. The financing gets a tad more tricky; more on that in a bit. As to deciding where they go, the proper answer is everyplace that wants them. Specific details of routing etc. need to be worked out with the people living on the route.

The current method involves national and state governments acting in their self-interest, which may not always never align with the interests of the masses, especially in kleptocracies or dictatorships.)

This is true.

But such an infrastructure, even if it existed, is a necessary but not sufficient condition for equitable distribution. Even in a state of perfect access to communications and transport, a “free-market” system would still distribute resources not by need, but by ability to pay, resulting in inequity.

Yeah, you can’t do anything like this without accounting for the massive disparities of capital* that already exist in the present world. So, basically, the question of who pays for it (above) is ‘the people who can afford it’. I.e., a collectivist pseudostate based in the Global North would recognize a massive debt owing, and pony up the cost of building up that infrastructure from the resources stolen by previous states and non-state actors occupying that geopolitical space. Ah, you say, but what if they don’t? Then the whole fucking thing falls apart and it may as well be the USSR all over again. So there you go, really.

*Not just financial, but also physical, human, and natural capital.

I therefore (naively, perhaps) assume that in order to reach such a state of perfect resource- and information-sharing, everything needs to run through a central clearing-house, which then disburses the resources as needed, and also works to decide how to lay down the supply lines in a manner as to ensure equitable distribution. Which is what I mean by “coordinating entity”.

Arbitrating entity perhaps, but not coordinating. Some type of U.N. equivalent would be needed to provide a mediator for disputes between groups (probably loosely culturally affiliated semi-nations; while I personally am a committed internationalist, I don’t actually believe we’ll ever get everyone on board the same cultural train, as it were, nor do I think we should, and there will inevitably be frictions between groups)

However, the system then begins to resemble a top-down command economy, which is generally considered inefficient, and which has a danger of mutating into a bureaucracy, and thence to an authoritarian State.

Not in danger of, but guaranteed to. Command economies are shit.

@Jesalin
Yeah, that’s TERF bullshit right there.

Feline
Feline
5 years ago

Thank you for this, Dodom.
Here’s the Basic Sub-Orbital Delight. Keep calm and retrofit your own kraken

“Retrofit your own kraken” sounds like a perfect dadaesque retort to daze and confuse a belligerent adversary.

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

Ooglyboggles:

Wait if they’re having an orgy with the sharks how do they deal with the sharkskin? It’d be like having sex with a roll of sandpaper.

Nuh-uh. Sharks are totally smooth.

https://twitter.com/bransonreese/status/848746940179382272

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
5 years ago

@Jesalin
There is 0 difference, zero, between the arguments of those critics and those of the proponents of bathroom bills

@Dali

Well, first you have to acknowledge that that’s a simplified slogan that hides a myriad of complexity, and frankly isn’t terribly well adapted to modern circumstances

Indeed

I personally am a committed internationalist

Definition, pls? Thanks 🙂

@Oogly

Wait if they’re having an orgy with the sharks how do they deal with the sharkskin? It’d be like having sex with a roll of sandpaper

Quit cockblocking the sharks. Snarks need luvvin, too. They’re good sharks, Brint!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
5 years ago

I can see the possible need for women only programs but there’s no reason trans women shouldn’t be included in those and yeah, “female born” can’t be anything but TERFiness.

LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo

Who likes big butts, they cannot lie?

Big butts, little butts. Girl butts, boy butts, non-binary butts. I am pro-butt.

Buffalo Headroom (it doesn't need to make sense)
Buffalo Headroom (it doesn't need to make sense)
5 years ago

@LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo

Butts are love, butts are life

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Axe

Definition, pls? Thanks

Workers* of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ731aR_SBY

*which is to say members of non-capital owning classes generally, regardless of individual employment status and/or disability

More comprehensively, I support developing and maintaining international networks of solidarity and mutual aid between all manner of labour unions, communes, workers’/poor people’s parties, &c. Also open borders.

Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ dalillama

Did you ever get a chance to check out the Join Lewis Partnership? Be interested in your thoughts.

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Alan
Thought I commented on that one last time… Huh. Anyway, the short of it is that the board is controlled by appointed executives, so it’s not economic democracy in any meaningful sense.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

@Imaginary Petal

@Fabe

My MC name is the same as here but without the blank space.

Ok invite sent to ImaginaryPetal

Banananana dakry: Fat, Short-Haired, and Deranged
Banananana dakry: Fat, Short-Haired, and Deranged
5 years ago

@LindsayIrene

I like sitting on my butt. Does that make me pro-butt?

numerobis
numerobis
5 years ago

The trees are having an orgy in my sinuses. It blows.

dlouwe
5 years ago

@Jesalin

Ugh, not more of that crap. There was fairly recently a postering campaign put up in Vancouver by a website (I don’t want to link it, but it’s called “Woman Means Something” *barf*) that was trying to stir up fear about C-16.

One thing that really ticks me off is that now there’s an article that refers to the dissenters with language like “Murphy, and some other feminists…” and “Some feminists…”, and skips over the fact that the people they talked to who support the bill are probably also feminists. Where’s the “Vast Majority of Feminists Support C-16 and Think Those Other Feminists Are Regressive Shits” article?

JS
JS
5 years ago

Have you EVER been a member of, or in any way associated (either directly or indirectly) with The Communist Party?– still on the US citizenship application (N-400).

Buffalo Headroom (it doesn't have to make sense)

@Banananana dakry: Fat, Short-Haired, and Deranged

Yes. Yes you are my fat, short-haired, and deranged friend.

Banananana dakry: Fat, Short-Haired, and Deranged
Banananana dakry: Fat, Short-Haired, and Deranged
5 years ago

@Buffalo Headroom

Why then, yes, I am very very pro-butt. If only because all the alternative body parts for sitting on kind of suck.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

@dikdik & Ej

If you’re still interested in joining my minecraft realm I still need your in game names.

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