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White supremacist Trump fan stabs interracial couple, police in Olympia WA say

Actual thing that exists
Actual thing that exists

Donald Trump continues to be an inspiration to the worst people in the world. In Olympia, Washington last week, he evidently inspired one man to attack an interracial couple with a knife.

Here’s Salon’s account of the attack:

Daniel Rowe stabbed a black man in Olympia, the capital of Washington state, outside of a bar at around 8:30pm [Tuesday night] after seeing the black man kiss a white woman. … Rowe … yelled a racial slur and lunged with his knife, police say. The blade grazed the woman and went into the man’s hip, according to a news release from Olympia police.

After being arrested he admitted to stabbing the couple and told police that he was a white supremacist, according to a police department spokesman.

According to court documents cited by Salon, Rowe “took a blood oath to fight on the street, and [said] if he was let go tonight, he planned on heading down to the next Donald Trump rally and stomping out more of the Black Lives Matter group.”

Meanwhile, as Salon goes on to note, the case of a Florida teenager who was caught literally eating the face off of one of the two people he had just killed for no clear reason has gotten even weirder. Apparently the murderer-turned-cannibal was wearing a Trump “Make America Great Again” hat when he committed his crimes.

Given the bizarre nature of the crime, it seems rather unlikely that the young murderer was inspired by Trump, but it is creepy as hell.

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Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
5 years ago

@Axe

Well to be fair it was 3 large mugs. But each of them is worth 4 standardized cups (the standard applied in bars that is). The problem with not getting enough sleep is that I struggle to get through the morning without coffee. On the other hand, as a general rule I won’t drink any after 2pm, even if I’m too goddamn tired to get anything done.

Funnily enough if it’s one of the good nights (one that I’m gonna spend, y’know, actually sleeping) I can actually drink coffee AND sleep. At this point I’m wondering if it has any effect on me anymore and the “getting through the morning” part isn’t just placebo.

I’m slowly cutting down though. There was a time when the 25 cups were pretty much my lower limit. ’twas in high school that I realized something I wasn’t previously aware of : caffeine overdoses are in fact a thing that exists. Who knew ?

LittleLurker
LittleLurker
5 years ago

Okay, wait a second.

This might be because I’m not a native speaker or because – as David writes in his comment policy – I’m not yet a very knowledgeable activist (I probably am not), but I don’t think I get what these comments are about? Just to make sure I don’t misunderstand, Axe and John, you don’t consider it okay to say:

1. Drug use is objectively bad and harmful to the user’s body.
2. Alcohol use is objectively bad and harmful to the user’s body.

You don’t even have to answer this, if you feel it’s too much to ask or you feel it’s a burden to have to educate me here, plus I feel I have almost certainly misunderstood this conversation, in which case I apologize in advance. I just never came across the concept of ableism (is that what this is about?) in the context of drugs/alcohol, so I would really like to know. Especially since there has been alcohol caused abuse in my mum’s family and I always said these things about the person who did it, so this is something that is kind of important to me personally. For full disclosure, I’m pretty triggered right now. However, you are still not obliged to answer or take my personal feelings into consideration, as I’m an adult. I can deal with it.

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

Would it be at all helpful to point out that part of the DSM criteria for addiction disorder is continuing to use whichever substance is involved despite that use causing the patient physical, psychological, and/or social harm?

Also, while I would use the term ‘addict’ in a clinical sense, I’d be worried that the term might come across as perjorative outside that setting. Is it considered an OK word to use?

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@John
Insomnia is the worst. I had a rough patch there where I was glad to get at least 3 hours because that’s the bare minimum I need for my brain to function in at least some capacity. I’m not sure how long that went on, I think I wasn’t encoding memories properly at the time so that whole period of my life is very hazy now, but I’m just glad I finally got help instead of continuing to think it was my own problem that I had to solve on my own.

@Axe
Thank you for putting so eloquently what I could not address because I started seeing red.

@Ohlmann
Yes, it’s negative to lose limbs because of stuff like this. It’s not a problem to see the harm itself as a negative. The problem is with labeling the person as negative. It’s bad that my wrist gets shooting pain and goes numb sometimes. It’s also bad that I abused alcohol in the past. The first one no one would call me a bad person over. At worst they might say I wasn’t being mindful enough of the ergonomics of my workspace to shift the blame for the condition onto me (usually people recognize that’s on the employer), but I’ve never heard of someone being considered a bad person for having carpal tunnel. Alcohol abuse, on the other hand, is viewed as the moral failings of the individual. If you called me a drunk you’d be saying it’s my fault and I’m a terrible person for it. The term junkie is even more loaded.

Just stop. No one is morally obligated to protect their own health.

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@littlelurker: reading this from the sidelines, I think the objection was to the term Ohlmann used. ‘Junkie’ is considered a perjorative term here in the states.

@ax: been meaning to ask you, where does ‘murica’ come from? It seems like a great way of addressing the concerns of our southern neighbors (Latin America, not Dixie) while still speaking directly of the USA. Also, feel free to tell me to butt out at any time.

LittleLurker
LittleLurker
5 years ago

@joekster

Okay, that’s something I completely agree with. Thanks for the explanation.

@kupo

What you wrote helped me understand the problem better, too. Thank you and I agree with you.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
5 years ago

@LittleLurker

It’s not really about ableism, although there is a tendency to conflate drug/alcohol use with mental illness (there can be a correlation and in some cases causation but that’s not problem).

We’re also not saying it’s not okay to say that alcohol/drug use can be dangerous. But there’s a world of difference between the words you can use to say that, their meaning, and ultimately the meaning of what you’re really saying.

To give you my personal example, as a long time drug user and beginner alcoholic (there’s a pretty long waiting period between the moment you start drinking too much and the moment you’re accepted to the club, and my membership just recently got validated) I went from “Ohlmann’s saying junkies, am I a junkie ?” to “Oh, so I’m not a junkie, I don’t do the drugs he says junkies do.” and then to “Well, I am pretty desperate and my drug intake is kinda related, maybe I’m a junkie ?” – and that’s just how it felt for me, with my specific experience related to the specific words used. Different people with different paths through life and matters of addiction could have a much worse time than this.

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@kupo: you make an important point about how people tend to moralize health, especially those health issues that are seen as related to an individual’s lifestyle choices. I suspect that it derives from the old monotheistic belief that everything good or bad comes from God, and so if something bad happens to you, it happened because either you deserved it, or God is testing you.

In any case, it’s an extremely unhelpful attitude (I am speaking of the attitude that bad health equals bad morals), and makes it very difficult for clinicians to give our patients neutral advice about their health.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Joekster
This should give some background on ‘murica.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/murica?full=1

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
5 years ago

@kupo

That boat is the single most awesome (and indeed murican) thing I’ve seen today. The pic with the family on the porch though, HOLY COW HOW IS IT THAT THERE’S MORE GUNS THAN PEOPLE ON THAT PICTURE, TODDLER INCLUDED ?

And sorry you’ve been through a period of insomnia :s
It is definitely the worst but I’m pretty sure it’s even worse in cases like yours when it’s not lifetime like me. At least I got used to it and eventually learned to function with it, but when it suddenly strikes you in the middle of your life like that…? Holy shit I can’t imagine x_x

@Joekster

Really it’s pejorative just about anywhere, except maybe in blues songs, and even then. Language really doesn’t excuse it. I’m French like Ohlmann yet cringe whenever I hear or read that word.

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@kupo: thanks for the info. Also, thanks for the site. I’ll be using it often, I think.

@John: sorry if I implied the term was ‘only’ considered perjorative here. I don’t feel qualified to speak for other cultures, so I try to qualify myself as much as possible.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
5 years ago

@littlelurker

I’m not yet a very knowledgeable activist

Neither am I honestly. I wouldn’t know The Feminine Mystique from The Vagina Monologues. In fact, the reason I got started commenting here is that I was having a rather nasty week and felt the need to be around people who’re better human beings than me. We’re figuring it out together, it seems 🙂

For full disclosure, I’m pretty triggered right now

Was it something I said. Either way, I’m so sorry <3

In that vein I'll be as… diplomatic as possible in my response. My issue with Ohlmann is 2fold
1st, that there's a difference between saying 'these drugs are bad' and 'these drug users are bad'. Calling people 'junkies' or 'terminally desperate' places the onus for their problems solely on them. It ignores any societal responsibility by giving the people who do drugs a derogatory term. Junk means 'that of little value', so you can imagine what junkie implies. By demonizing these people it makes it easier for the state to make life worse for them. This often carries racist undertones, especially in Murica. Crack, used by black/poor people, until recently got a harsher prison sentence than cocaine, used by rich/white people

2nd… Imma use an analogy. It'll be pretty suspect, but I think it gets to the point. Right, so this is a feminist blog. I'm a dude. Straight (mostly), cisgender (definitely), the whole nine yards. That doesn't mean I can't argue with the non dudes, but it does mean there are certain topics that are outside of my wheelhouse. I've neither the experience nor the expertise, so I should defer to those who do. Similarly, Ohlmann doesn't communicate very well in English. Enough to present an idea in the broad strokes but not so much on the smaller details. Not a problem, his English is a billion times better than my French. Difference is, you'd never catch me telling any francophone what words are appropriate. I've neither the expertise nor the experience. I might make a suggestion, but that's as far as it goes. This has happened a couple of times now with Ohlmann, and, when told to drop it, he's doubled down. Constantly

@joek
http://fb-timeline-cover.com/covers-images/download/American%20Eagle%20Flag%20Design.jpg
(I love that pic so much)
I use Murica when speaking specifically about my country. Most of Latin America calls themselves 'American' too, so that creates a language problem. I'm generally of the 'if you're speaking English, then America means the US, so get over it' persuasion. But it kinda feels gross saying that on a blog that regularly tackles a guy who says Mexicans are all rapists and criminals
Re: drug addict
It seems an OK term, but I've never given it much thought til now. At least, I'm not sure what the better term would be. Perhaps use 'person first language', ie person with drug addiction. Kinda like with other psychological conditions. It's 'Sam is a person with autism', rather than 'Sam is autistic/an autistic person'

@kupo

Thank you for putting so eloquently what I could not address because I started seeing red

Anytime, girlfriend! I’m starting to feel like that’s my job here now. #NotYourSword /s 😀

@John
There are more guns than people in this country. Period. Only about 1/3 of households are armed, but some people get like 10 of em, cos FREEDOM!

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@ax: I totally get where you’re coming from on ‘murica. My best man is from South America, and he used to get offended by us norteamericanos using the term ‘Americans’ to describe ourselves. I use ‘the states’ instead, but ‘murica is much more colorful.

LittleLurker
LittleLurker
5 years ago

To everyone who took the time to explain in more detail: Thank you. 🙂 I understand the issue much better now, I think.

And it was nothing anyone said that specifically triggered me, so don’t worry! Not to go into too much detail, but I can be pretty “sensitive” sometimes, but I’m learning how to deal with it.

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@ax: and I think the person first language would be the best way to go when dealing with such charged issues as people suffering from substance use disorders.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
5 years ago

@littlelurker

And it was nothing anyone said that specifically triggered me, so don’t worry! Not to go into too much detail, but I can be pretty “sensitive” sometimes, but I’m learning how to deal with it

OK! Feel free to let me know if I ever do make you feel bad in future

@joek
1 other thing. I’ve heard that the term ‘suffering’ or ‘sufferers’ is pretty frought. (1) A lot of ‘sufferers’ of various conditions don’t really feel like they’re suffering, so saying they are is just inviting tension. (2) It’s often used to say that certain conditions are inherently horrific, like those anti autism assholes saying their children were destroyed by vaccines or whatevs. (3) It subjugates those ‘sufferers’ into a no win situation, ie once a sufferer always a sufferer

That’s just what I heard anyway. ‘People who have’, ‘who are dealing with’ or, when appropriate, ‘who are in treatment for’ substance abuse disorders might work better

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@ax: thanks for the correction.

For what it’s worth, I’ve started to see you as the groups unofficial warden or enforcer. #notyoursword indeed ?

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
5 years ago

I was gonna make a bad pun about swords and axes but then I felt like one a day was enough.

There are more guns than people in this country. Period. Only about 1/3 of households are armed, but some people get like 10 of em, cos FREEDOM!

Besides people make the amount of guns increase, whereas guns make the amount of people decrease.

That sentence ain’t even intelligible. I love it.

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@John: do you want to hear something absolutely absurd? In a lot of our more conservative states, it’s illegal for doctors to talk to their own patients about gun safety. I’m serious: a few years ago, a physician in Florda was actually convinced of this. Not sure if he did jail time or was just fined, but isn’t that rediculous?

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
5 years ago

FLORIDA. AGAIN.

I mean where else would you expect a doctor to be convinced of telling you that gunshot wounds are typically caused by gunshots.

rrh
rrh
5 years ago

One of the other things that Mr. “Common Ground” said the other day is that their ridiculous memes were really just attempts to “trigger” SJWs into exposing how “intolerant” they are.

So clearly this is the same plan. This gentleman was eating faces as part of a clever plan to get Ohlmann to use the word “junkies.”

“Checkmate, SJWs,” he’ll say, blood trickling down his chin, “I sure showed how terrible you really are.”

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
5 years ago

This gentleman was eating faces as part of a clever plan

There’s a joke here about the cognitive capabilities of Trump supporters and zombies. But that wouldn’t be mature.

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@John: the case balled back when I was in medical school, so I’m a bit fuzzy in the details. As I recall, it was a pediatrician who committed the dreadful crime of advising his patients parents about gun safety. I think he may even have gone so far as to suggest that his patients couldn’t accidentally shoot themselves if there weren’t guns in the house. I’ll try to find the details when I get home from my group sing this afternoon, but it struck me as rather surreal.

On another note, is anyone interested in starting a #nolivesmatter on Twitter and posting stories of gun violence to it? Or would that be in poor taste?

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
5 years ago

@joek

Or would that be in poor taste?

The poorest

Joekster
Joekster
5 years ago

@axe: thanks. I won’t pursue the notion.

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