Happy New Year! I’ve spent the day so far lazing around, eating leftover pizza and listening to music. And that’s about all I’m going to do, I think.
I’ll be back at work blogging tomorrow.
In the meantime, does anyone have any especially fond memories of Tom Martin and/or Steele from the past year?
Oh, and here’s a video from an Old School New Wave band called Polyphonic Size. It was 1983. They were from Belgium.
“At 14 years old you know what happens to something when you kill it.”
How do you know she does? And why are you refusing to see that at 14, and in the sort of fear she evidently felt, you do not act rationally?
You’re basically saying she should be treated like someone ten or twenty years older than her who made a choice in cold blood without any perceived threat hanging over her head.
This conversation is a real banging-head-against-wall one.
Okay, so what if the whole village except the baby will be shot?
What if only one person will be shot? Two? Five? What if it’s just the guy himself who will be shot if he doesn’t kill the baby?
You are really bad at thought experiments.
People kill people every day. It’s terrible. We can’t throw them all into prison forever*; we have to actually look at the individual cases and make the most ethical decisions about what to do.
And sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, that you have to take into account:
(a) age
(b) mental capacity
(c) duress
(d) self defense
(e) likelihood of re-offending
(f) other extenuating circumstances (e.g. man who kills wife who is dying of pancreatic cancer because he can’t bear to see her in pain any more vs. woman who kills husband for the insurance money)
And, as I’ve said, murders are among the least likely to re-commit the crime, and therefore some of the best candidates for rehabilitation.
Someone who can’t consider all of those factors, and also be capable of empathy towards the accused — not necessarily sympathy, but just understanding what they were going through — should never serve on a jury, ever.
*Well, technically we could if we built lots more prisons and dedicated even more of our budgets to running them. That’s just not a world I want to live in.
I’ll ask, who was the father? And is anyone looking for the guy who knocked-up a 14-year-old who, it would appear, wasn’t ready to deal with sex, pregnancy and the social stigma she’d have to face whether the baby lived or not.
@katz
I learned about death when I was 6, dog got hit by a car.
And I’m sure you have a different opinion on how she should be judged, I never said you couldn’t express it.
@ all
You win, okay? I don’t know everything, at first all I knew was that she killed her baby. I knew nothing of her community or anything except what argenti said about her being in an abstinence only sex Ed class. I can see how it wouldn’t have happened if it were different.
Starla, would it kill you to actually answer a question you are asked? Because I’m getting really sick of your “Well, you can think anything you want, but I think killing babies is wrong” routine.
Everyone else, want to place a wager on how soon Starla will tell us she’s crying and to stop being all mean to her?
Give it half an hour?
Starla, will you quit projecting yourself as the template for all children? I’m really jack of this “well I did X, therefore everyone does or sholuld” with its heavy implication of “anyone who didn’t is evil/abnormal” bullshit.
Starla: yes, we’re assuming that what upsets you is a baby dying, because that’s what you said.
Argenti: yeah, I’d like to know where the father is too in all of this.
@katz I did answer your questions, your posting knew ones faster than I can respond. As for everyone not to be mean to me, I deserve it, I got emotional and said something stupid…repeatedly. Ive come to like it here and I don’t want to start any more problems.
*should
Katz: two comments from now, pass the Kleenex.
So since Starla learned about death when she was 6, that’s the cutoff. Someone who is 5 years old and kills a person gets treated with leniency, but if you’re 6 it’s off with your head/you’re serving time as an adult.
Sigh. I’m not even trying to “win” this discussion; I just want her to think about what she’s saying.
No. You. Did. Not! I reposted the same three questions because you didn’t answer ANY of them! You didn’t even pretend to answer most of them! Here, I will provide you a helpful link to my previous comment. Please answer those questions.
@Starla
And I feel that I am just really learning about death at 30, now that my beloved grandmother has died. My estranged father died when I was 9. I knew what death was, but I also really didn’t.
Some gal: my condolences on the loss of your grandmother.
Starla: you really mean to say you knew all about death at six? Have you pored over any ancient manuscripts lately?
Snark aside, even though I knew about death from a pretty young age, it’s still relatively theoretical until you’ve gained some life experience. If you really want a grip on it, almost die yourself.
@hellkell
Thank you. I wasn’t expecting that. It means a lot.
Can we please just forget it? I realized I am wrong and I don’t want to fight with any of you. I’m sorry.
?????
And who is to say that this girl – who presumably, having had abstinence-only education, is in a religous household – doesn’t have an entirely different view of death? Do you believe in an afterlife, Starla? Is death extinction in your mind? What if this child (I will keep repeating that she’s a child even if it never gets through) had been brought up to believe that “good” people go to Heaven and live happily ever after? She would be even less likely to see death the same way as you do.
NB please note, all, I am NOT implying that belief in an afterlife = not being concerned about death, or murder in particular. I’m suggesting it might be a factor in how a child thinks about it.
why did I write NB and please note …
… my brain hurts
I’m not necessarily recommending it in this case, but for some juvenile offenders, it would be great if the “punishment”/sentencing was just a new family and therapy.
“Ive come to like it here and I don’t want to start any more problems.”
Perhaps we could discuss how to prevent this instead of how to punish her and how wrong killing babies is?
And frankly, discussing how horrible it is to kill a neonate is a bit too close to playing “how late of an abortion is too late” — as my best friend noted, women who abort in the third trimester have other shit going on besides simply wanting to kill their fetus (eg abuse or unable to access abortion sooner). This kid, because she was a kid, had other shit going on.
@argenti,
While I may not have said it sooner I do agree with you that more informative sex Ed could’ve prevented this whole thing. I’ve long known that some people would rather ignore the fact that their children could be having sex than teach them what they need to know to keep them from potentially ruining their lives.
“why did I write NB and please note …
… my brain hurts”
Blame me, I must’ve broken your Latin.
Starla, then why have we spent a page discussing ow to punish her and how ring it is to kill babies?
@ argenti
Because I got emotional and let those emotions get the better of me. If I owe anyone an apology it’s definitely you, I’m sorry.