Happy Damn New Year!

You are averring that you have somehow responded to questions, or that you don’t need/want to respond to them, and therefore you should be treated differently from the treatment everyone else gets.

That’s how you are acting the entitled ass.

There’s a certian level of manipulation displayed by our newcomers that I am just not down with.

@Starla

I don’t know enough to say what the girl deserves. Most likely, she deserved help that we as a society failed to give her. I don’t really get wanting to “punish” a young girl for our mistakes. (I don’t really get the desire to punish people full stop. I mean, I get it as an impulse like wanting to win the lottery or to test how long it would take for parents paying no attention to their kids to notice I’d temporarily kidnapped them, but those aren’t impulses to act on let alone pass laws on.)

We should take this as an opportunity to publicize Safe Haven laws and drop-offs, and push for better sex ed. We should not be charging this child as an adult and possibly not with a felony at all.

Starla: Well the questions look very similar, sorry I didn’t catch the absence of the small word that made the questions entirely different: (her).

Then you need to pay more attention. What it looks like, to me, is you didn’t want to talk about it, and so just blew it off; after you staked a large, and somewhat extreme, position. People were kind enough to let you drop the major set of claims, but did pursue the root question, and you can’t be bothered to take them as honest actors; so you don’t pay attention to what they actually said, letting your emotional response to earlier parts of the conversation take over.

The point of punishment is to show someone what they did us wrong with an explanation of why it’s wrong. There.

How does punishment accomplish this?

@some gal
I was saying that I don’t know if legal action should be taken. I know she’s facing life right now, and I don’t know if that is appropriate, perhaps there is some kind of program they could put her in? My boyfriend is going to college for law enforcement, I could ask him.

What I meant by depending on her mental state, is if she had an evaluation, other things should be taken into consideration, like if she was abused.

You are right about changing sex Ed, And making safe haven laws more apparent. I recently found out that although my school never taught sex Ed, and frequently had speakers come in to talk about abstinence (attendance optional), there was a law stating the school nurse HAS to give you a condom if you ask for it. Kids should know they have more options than being abstinent and ruining your life.

Well in psychological terms, it associates a negative stimuli with an undesirable action, making it less likely to happen again.

OMG, we actually are going the Clockwork Orange route!

@Starla google is your friend.

Starla: 1: It’s pecunium.

Well in psychological terms, it associates a negative stimuli with an undesirable action, making it less likely to happen again.

Ah… you believe in the doctrine of negative re-inforcement.

1: How do you connect the punishment to the behavior you wish to prevent?

1a: Why punish? If the worry is that the offender will repeat then a: simple sequestration (no need to make it punitive, e.g. Norway’s prison system) will work, and b: the level of “punishment needs to be directly tied to the risk of recidivism, not the shock one feels at the crime.

. The person will think, “this happened because, I did this,”

Will they?

2: How do you effect that association?

I’ve studied a lot of psych, and trained a lot of people and some animals (the first two were related to each other, and my job). How do you intend to make the cause and effect linked, and provable and corrective?

When training with negative reinforcement (i.e. the punishment model), one needs to have absolute impartiality, 100 percent infliction of punitive measures, and no lag time.

Otherwise what you teach isn’t, “this behavior will get me punished”, but rather, “If I get caught this behavior will get me punished.” So what you are teaching is the need to conceal bad behavior.

depending what the punishment is it could inspire newfound empathy for the “victim” Could inspire.

Sorry, from an ethics standpoint could inspire isn’t acceptable as a reason for inflicting harm on someone.

Any number of reasonable aims can be sought in this manner, but to do so is unethical. In V for Vendetta the heroine is tortured, in the interest of improving her empathy. It’s not moral.

As to your example, what if the lesson he learned wasn’t, “oh, I get hurt”, but rather, “I need to bite them so hard they never want to bite me again.”

Because that was the lesson a my partner’s sister took from being bitten in return. It reinforced that it was acceptable behavior.

Negative reinforcement, as a corrective model is weak, prone to failure from mis-use and should never be mixed with abstract punishment; esp. in an official/state capacity, as it blurs the line, and revenge thinking/anger at horrific events, will blur the lines, and defeat any theoretical even-handedness.

It precludes mercy, which makes justice impossible.

katz: And… dogs are not dogs. If you want a well trained dog you use positive reinforcement.

Also true. Punishment is almost never necessary for animals.

But negative reinforcement works particularly poorly for people because we’re capable of thinking beyond “I did that and something bad happened, so I shouldn’t do it again.”

Capricious negative consequences are a wonderful way of making someone afraid of you. Terrible way of making someone agree with you.

Starla: Your life is not everyone’s life. Your experience is not all there can be. There are many, many things you have never heard of, and many of them happen all the time.

@viola
I know that, I was just stating that I’d never heard of it. Not “I’ve never heard of it do it must not have ever happened and never will”.