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PUAs invade OkCupid!

Honestly, this would freak me the fuck out too.

Over on Buzzzfeed, a couple of interesting pieces on the fine art of online pickup artistry.

Kelly Bourdet looks at some of the online PUA gurus and their teachings, noting that

Online pick-up artistry has taken the original aims of IRL pick-up — to develop general tactics and techniques for attracting and bedding women— one step further. One dehumanizing step further. Now, instead of “peacocking” (wearing gaudy outfits to demonstrate Alpha status) in bars and using tired negs, we have them deconstructing every aspect of online persona and communication to create sleek, marketing packages of human beings to sell to one another.

In an even more entertaining companion piece, Ouiser Boudreaux (AKA the Annals of Online Dating gal) reports on some of the actual terrible things these online PUAs write to women in an attempt to “neg” them into their IRL beds.  Like “nice headband, bitch,” or “Lol, you look like a space commando.” Or this little passive-aggressive masterpiece:

You nearly have a perfect lack of grace. What happens when you realize only the also ran hotties slum it in brooklyn? Somebody who says they’re not good at being surface and rattles off a list of authors read mostly in high school english classes is nothing but surface. Your profile is among the most trite and cliche i’ve come across. which is a compliment of sorts, though keep in mind, you’re not in kansas anymore. You know who else won’t deal with a narcissist? just look in the mirror to find the answer: another narcissist.

None of these worked, in case you’re wondering.

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pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Seriously, how many men write that into their profiles? Answer: way too many.

Also, men who promise to “sweep me off my feet” and “treat me like I’m a princess”. And yet somehow they also go one to talk about how they don’t want “high maintenance women”. Um…so if I send you the latest twelve princesses Barbie, will that work? Because women who want to swept off their feet and treated like princesses are probably more likely to have higher expectations….

Seraph
Seraph
10 years ago

Because this comic strips needs to appear at least once in every discussion of PUAs and negging:

http://www.xkcd.com/1027/

Jessay (@jessay)
10 years ago

@Lady Zombie haha, like people even read the profiles. I had a section about what I was looking for in a partner as well as deal breakers got the nothing but the exact opposite of what I was after. So either these guys were completely delusional about who they are or they’re just not reading my profile.

I also had to take out the fact that I really love the Lord of the Rings because it was drawing the wrong type of men for me. It was probably the only nerdy thing on my list of interests, and I like a few other nerdy things, but I’m not nerdy overall. But dudes who were 100% nerds were clinging to that tidbit in my profile as if it was the only thing that I liked. While I have nothing against nerdy things, and have lots of nerdy friends, on a romantic level, I just can’t get into a guy who lives and breathes for nerdy stuff. It’s like, I play a few video games, I like a bit of sci fi, that’s about it. I just don’t mesh that way with them.

@swankivy Ugh, I remember this guy one time imed me on OKC and we were having a pretty normal conversation while he was working at home. Then suddenly he keeps insisting I come over, that he wants to cuddle, yadda yadda yadda. I’m like, “Uhhh, no?” He just became bizarely attached really fast. I wasn’t even particularly interested in him, just being nice. I learned pretty quickly to not be nice unless you’re actually interested. OKC is not a place for making friends.

Also, that “Fine, I didn’t want you anyway,” thing is always wonderful. Sure buddy. If that helps your pride, keep telling yourself that.

Pecunium
10 years ago

BigKitty: As someone named Terrence, I happen to like that poem (from “A Shropshire Lad, Houseman being one of my favorite poets), and I think, given the message of that poem you do the Terrence so referred too much credit, as Houseman was using Terence to stand in for himself.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Lady Zombie: I loved motorcycles and rode one of my own,

What did/do you ride?

I’ve got a BMW K100RS. One of the things I miss about Palo Alto was how easy it was to do all sorts of riding. I also miss having my Seca 650.

My housemate rides her own, and when I was out in Feb., she, I, her Feral Partner, and one of my exes went for a ride, while my ex’s primary rode drag; in a car.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Amog: Tell me something, if they’re all such losers and their tricks don’t work, why all the hate?

Because they prey on people and take advantage of them. Because they make the world a slightly less happy place to be.

Because we are our brother’s keepers.

Jealous, maybe, that they actually achieve success by going out there, facing their fears and interacting with people while you smugly pass judgement from behind your keyboards?

Projecting much? I have a pretty good life. I’ve had all sorts of interesting sex, with all sorts of interesting people (almost all of whom I can name; and most of them I’d expect to be able to recognise if I met them again, almost none of whom I regret, and none of whom I am ashamed of; even the ones I was too callow to either know I ought not have had sex with, or whom I treated less well than they deserved).

And that’s just my sex life. The rest of my life is pretty good. I had a successful career in the Army. I’ve been paid to cross the country and speak about things which I am passionate about. I’ve published a book, with my father, about something we both love.

I’ve traveled on three continents, and all four hemispheres. I’ve held the power of life and death in my hands, helped deliver three children and made things which will outlast me by centuries, if not millenia.

And I’ve only lived about half the lifespan my family typically lives.

What has a guy whose claim to fame is shaming someone into fucking him got to match that?

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

OMG swankivy.. Rozencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead!! God I used to watch that movie all the time!!! Have you heard of a group called Delerium? They’re like my all time favorite group and I lurves Loreena McKinnet. But for some reason I can’t find the “how to fail at OK Cupid” article. Best I can do is get your opening profile page? And I’m guessing that what’s in there is likely also covered in the article?

And despite being so upfront about who you are and what you want, you still had to wade through men looking for relationships or sex? I get where you’re coming from. I’m a grey myself and its erm…complicated by other peoples expectations.

burgundy
burgundy
10 years ago

Wow, I see now that I have been doing OkC all wrong. When I get something really egregious, like the guy with the 60% enemy rating, who lives 300 miles away, who is racist and conservative and not willing to enter into an open relationship, messaging me to say he would like to get to know me better, I generally just ignore it. But if I responded to these consistently, a whole world of entertainment would open up to me! I must ponder this.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Candidate for the Boob Roll perhaps? He starts right up front, after talking about “womens’ overburdened hamsters”:

I think that online dating profiles are a perfect place to have a look at the tragicomic inner mental machinery of entitled women. Sometimes I wonder if they forget that they are there to attract a man, and that men will actually be reading the stunningly stupid things they write on their profiles. Looking through Match, I see a lot of grrrl-pwr buzzwords, feminist posturing, and what I can only describe as pre-emptive shit-testing.

In response to a woman’s dating profile where she says, “I am looking for a man who can handle a strong independent woman,” he has this to say:

After a long day at work dealing with narcissistic career-obsessed women and irritating, catty manginas, I’ve had my fill of challenges. But maybe you could serve me up a nice challenging dinner: Tough, chewy meat, raw potatoes, and a Vinegar Manhattan. I could show you what a hardass I am, handling your strong, independent menu.

And apparently these profiles violate rules in 5 Easy Steps to Get Him to Propose.
Step 1:

1. Do your market research. Determine what the men you find attractive want in a wife, then give it to them. If you’re not willing to do this, then on behalf of men everywhere, I invite you to shut up and stop bitching about not being married. Shaming your customers into buying your product only works on women and beta males (women). And no, banging a different man every three months on your way to the serial monogamy hall of fame is not market research.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Cloudiah who is this fantastic jackass? And how do we entice him over here for entertainment?

swankivy
10 years ago

@pillowinhell, yeah I know Delerium (only vaguely, though). I don’t know why Googling “How to Fail at OKCupid” only took you to my profile page on OKC, but it’s in the journals tab of that profile. Somebody else actually discovered me by Googling that phrase, so I know it can be found . . . just don’t know why the Evil Internet decided to serve you my profile page instead of the journal page where it resides.

Ah, and yes, I get fairly consistent “I’m looking for a woman like you to meet each other’s needs,” blah blah blah mails. When I tell them to look at my profile, they always come back indignant, claiming that they “skimmed it” and then start abusing me for daring to be attractive but not on the market. What I’m there for is surely irrelevant! If he likes me and wants me to be his girlfriend/sex partner, I’m simply CRUEL not to entertain this venture!

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Swankivy, I’ll keep looking.

Also, I do not think your orientation or mine computes for most people. It took me an embarrasingly long time to figure out to figure out that when someone calls someone else “hot” that they are actually describing their sexual arousal and not just “this person is attractive in a conventional way”.

I’ve spent far too much life thinking I’m broken. I mean, even when society talks about monks it presumed that they’re just supressing their urges. I didn’t even know that asexuality existed until about a year ago, let alone that there is a spectrum to it.

Hopefully though, the jackasses will take you at your word and leave you alone soon.

Hope is the feathered thing,
That dwells within your soul.
It sings the tune without the words,
And never stops
….At all.

swankivy
10 years ago

I wonder if it will be possible to access my “How to Fail at OKCupid” article if I link it as my URL in this comment?

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Swankivy, it should work. I just keep getting your opening profile or I’m told you haven’t filled your profile out yet. Mind you, I’m working on a smartphone that is not always as smart as I’d like.

swankivy
10 years ago

@pillowinhell I know some people have issues understanding asexuality, but hey, I think the natural first inclination when one doesn’t understand something should be to LISTEN, and instead I find that people are much more inclined to crap on it, say it can’t exist, ask extremely personal questions, and try to make me feel bad about it. Before there was an asexual community I was already rambling about “nonsexuality” on the Internet, in 1998. It was awesome when more people started finding each other and getting an understanding of what the spectrum is like and what sorts of people are on it. I probably get more crap from people than the average bear because I’m so all over the place with my awareness efforts (YouTube, radio, interviews, even a documentary movie I was in, plus the articles I’ve published), and I’m probably a lot more used to handling it, but honestly, the sheer vitriol and disgust and anger that pours out of people when they don’t understand it is truly still shocking to me.

swankivy
10 years ago

@pillowinhell Yes, it’s probably a smartphone app issue. My profile and all of its journal entries are public. But my phone hates OKC also so I wouldn’t be surprised if yours did too.

cloudiah
10 years ago

@pillows hell I think the blog is run by several dudes…

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Really? I’m not out with my orientation. I’ve met with flat out refusal to believe. Of course, it doesn’t help that I find sexy time to be a pleasant past time, even though it really does nothing for me at a sexual level, at all. My biggest frustration is that the rare guy I’ve tried talking to about this has responded with “he’ll just have to try harder” or that maybe “I should get some medication/psychiatric help for it”.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Damn you autocorrect: @pillowinhell^

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Stupid phones…

Cloudiah, do you think we can get them to come here if we explain that some obstreperous, strident and just plain hellbent feminists are looking to mend their ways and get married??

swankivy
10 years ago

People just have a really hard time understanding asexuality, especially since they have trouble seeing the difference between orientation and behavior. People who are demi or gray are even more of a mystery to normatively sexual people, but I think the bottom line is that pretty much everything about sexuality is a spectrum. It doesn’t make sense to say that only one particular point on the bell curve–and up–counts as normal. That’s why it’s called a NORMAL distribution. If sexuality exists, it makes sense that there’d be people at both ends of the bell curve–one end completely isn’t interested, the other end is obsessed with it. People can be really close to the asexual end and live most of their lives identifying more with the asexual experience, but if they’re not repulsed by sex and can like it for non-sexual-attraction-related reasons, people don’t see how they can be asexual. I think it’s pretty simple to explain. I guess it’s processing it that’s difficult for them. That and fighting with themselves about whether we’re allowed to be the authority on our feelings when they’d much rather diagnose us with something they understand.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Maybe comment on their blog? 🙂

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Yeah, and guys who will wait til date five for sex…yeah, my minimum is three months. Not negotiable.

For those who stick around, I have to be leery of the ones whose self esteem depends on their performance in bed. Or the guys who think that they don’t have to do anything in return, like I’m just a slightly more real sex toy. Pretty good at weeding those ones out though. And I find the performance based guys really tough to handle. And unfortunately its very common among men to have that attitude. I can’t blame them though, society pushes performance in bed and these guys feel guilty that I don’t even comprehend the enjoyment they get from sex.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
10 years ago

Cloudiah, I know me. I go over there, I’m going to troll. Which is bad. Enjoyable on a short term basis, but I’d be there in bad faith.

Besides, I’m currently banging my head against walls on FC. For guys who complain about feminists moving goal posts, these guys keep trying to change stadiums.

swankivy
10 years ago

Yeah, the performance-based guys? I don’t get it. Here’s my “I don’t expect sex until date 4 or 5” conversation:

***
His first message:
Subject: You’re the diamond in the rough!

I’m in awe! I finally found someone with a great view of life. I am precisely interested in relationships that are culturally affirming–including supporting bisexuality, etc. That’s why I choose a rewarding and liberal career. I am a social worker. I’d like to sit down with you and have a conversation. I am sure that it would be incredibly enlightening. Game?

~~~
Since I’m on the site as “bisexual” since “asexual” isn’t a drop-down choice, this was clearly a “bi girls form letter,” because I’m extremely clear in my profile. My response:

***
Hmm. Well thanks for the message, though I’m honestly not quite sure what to say in response. I’m glad you think my view of life is great, but I’d be gladder if I knew more about what aspect of it you’re referring to. You mention “supporting bisexuality” rather specifically in an otherwise unspecific paragraph of introduction (which puzzles me since it doesn’t have anything to do with me).

And then finally you invite me to a conversation but haven’t given me much to work with here. Believe me when I say I’m all for “enlightening” conversations, but they usually start based on common interests, and I’d love to know more about what those are if we’re gonna talk about ’em. You can start anywhere you like, and assuming the conversation takes on a life of its own, you certainly don’t need permission to talk to me!

~~~
This is where it got hilarious, by the way. Observe all the non sequiturs and assumptions.

***
You like debate! I want to tie you up and tickle your feet…ha! Let’s see…how can I approach this without turning you off..(thinking to myself). Okay, I will be completely honest. I am not looking for sex until date 4 or 5. Then, we would have to talk frankly about issues such as contraception, etc. Well, that’s probably a common statement you’ve heard as a woman and you are looking for uncommon. However, let me emphasize that it is true for me. I don’t want to fake sophistication here. Think in terms of humanity. That is, every human being has basic needs, including the need for food, shelter and clothing. I want to journey with you as we meet those needs. I am careful to call on occassion. I value me independence. I’ve dated free-spirited women before, and I have an idea of how to approach you. Am I assuming too much? If I don’t equivocate, you’ll argue the other side. If I equivocate it is at the risk of being called indecisive. The possibilities are endless. I know what turns you on is having possibilities…now, I am drawn to you because of your mind. You think outside of the box and like to push the envelope a bit. I like it and want a piece of you. Thoughts?

~~~
Woo-hoo! How understanding he is that he won’t expect sex until DATE 4 OR 5! He’s so sensitive to a woman’s needs, when most guys expect it by Date 3! I mean, what a catch! And despite his attempt to draw me in with compliments on MY MIND, he apparently thinks I don’t have one and can’t see through this transparent attempt at flattery! Here’s my reply.

***
No assumptions are necessary when I lay out everything in my profile very well.

No, I am not expressing that I “like debate.” I’m no fan of arguing just to argue. And I don’t think that I have a whole lot to say to someone who is coming from the direction you are. You’re trying to figure out how to not turn me off, but manage to say the most inappropriate things possible? You’re trying to avoid faking sophistication, but apparently haven’t processed anything I said about myself? You’re arranging your approach toward “a free-spirited woman like me” based on your dating experience? And then you finish it off by saying something you “know” about what turns me on?

How about instead of strategizing and calculating your approach like I’m a game of chess instead of another person, you just read my profile and operate as if everything I said there is true?

I’m not sure if anything you’ve said is offensive because it’s just so damn bizarre and off-base that I don’t even know whether to take it seriously. It really is that amazingly off in left field.

Just in case you actually don’t get what I’m talking about (despite my being excruciatingly specific in my profile), I am not here for dating anyone, I am not looking for a partner of any kind, I am not interested in someone who thinks it’s cute to tell a stranger they want to tie them up and tickle their feet, and I don’t intend to have sex with anyone ever. Was I unclear?

~~~
Believe it or not, he had a reply. It was this:

***
Lots of anger…you need to tie me up….ha! I will kiss your feet if you wish…plus I might enjoy.

~~~
LOL. Fail. My reply (after which I blocked him):

***
No thanks. I don’t really have much anger, though there’s some frustration when people aren’t listening to a word I’ve said. You have fun with your games now. . . .

~~~
Thanks for “playing.” Idiot. I’m sure he’s still out there convinced he’s quite the ladies’ man and crediting himself for his intellectual stamina and sensitivity to What Women Want (you know, other than to be treated like people, because that’s just silly).

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