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Johnny Appleseed: A Man Going His Own Way?

How do you like them apples?

So yesterday I quoted some random Spearheader who described women (well, white women in particular) as “complete parasitical whores roaming the landscape spreading VD like Johnny Appleseed and fucking men over.”

One reader wondered if Mr. Appleseed really went about spreading VD. So I did a little research, and it turns out that it is exceedingly unlikely that Mr. Appleseed – who actually was a real person — spread anything other than the magic of apples. And his Swedenborgian beliefs.

Why? Because Mr. Appleseed – real name John Chapman – was what these days we might call a Man Going His Own Way. Seems he didn’t have much truck with the ladies, according to one contemporary account quoted in his Wikipedia entry:

On one occasion Miss PRICE’s mother asked Johnny if he would not be a happier man, if he were settled in a home of his own, and had a family to love him. He opened his eyes very wide–they were remarkably keen, penetrating grey eyes, almost black–and replied that all women were not what they professed to be; that some of them were deceivers; and a man might not marry the amiable woman that he thought he was getting, after all.

So what led poor Mr. Appleseed to these dire thoughts about women? Apparently the underage girl he hoped to some day get with was more into dudes who weren’t him:

Now we had always heard that Johnny had loved once upon a time, and that his lady love had proven false to him. Then he said one time he saw a poor, friendless little girl, who had no one to care for her, and sent her to school, and meant to bring her up to suit himself, and when she was old enough he intended to marry her. He clothed her and watched over her; but when she was fifteen years old, he called to see her once unexpectedly, and found her sitting beside a young man, with her hand in his, listening to his silly twaddle.

That ungrateful little strumpet!

I peeped over at Johnny while he was telling this, and, young as I was, I saw his eyes grow dark as violets, and the pupils enlarge, and his voice rise up in denunciation, while his nostrils dilated and his thin lips worked with emotion. How angry he grew! He thought the girl was basely ungrateful. After that time she was no protegé of his.

But Appleseed, despite giving up on women in the real world, held out hope for the afterlife – explaining to others that he expected to have two spirit wives all his own after he died. Which I guess is the 19th century equivalent of the MGTOWers today who fantasize about the sexy robot ladies who will eventually, it is hoped, make actual human females – with their troubling “thoughts” and “needs” and “desires” of their own – obsolete.

Mr. Appleseed’s quest to remain alone was probably also helped by the fact that – if the illustration I found on Wikipedia is any indication – he looked a bit like Dale Gribble from King of the Hill. Only much, much sloppier, with long hair. Oh, and instead of wearing a baseball cap, he wore “a tin utensil which answered both as a cap and a mush pot.”

So, yeah, a creepy weirdo who hates women — definitely an MGTOWer all the way.

Oh, except that he actually did something with his life — you know, helping spread apple trees to a big portion of the midwest — instead of spending all his time going on about how all women are whores.

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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Meller thinks that good manners is everyone else kissing his ass, and bad manners is when a woman doesn’t kiss his ass. He also thinks that telling women that they should be killed if they refuse to submit to his demands is perfectly polite and reasonable.

As much as most of the time I just think he’s an angry old man railing at the world, there are moments where I suspect that he may actually be a sociopath. It’s an interesting philosophical question – at an extreme level is misogyny indistinguishable from sociopathy on a practical level?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

“Actually, I think that, occasional lapses aside, I am more decent to you than most critics of manboobz.”

“I am quite literally incapable of loving (or having any positive feelings whatever) a woman who is NOT “soft ‘n’ fluffy”.”

Is anyone else having a really hard time reconciling these two statements made by our good friend DKM here? How is it descent to have absolutely no positive feelings towards any woman that is not “soft ‘n’ fluffy,” whatever that means…

By the way, DKM, complementing women on living up to your cotton-ball dream-like standards of how a woman should be a man’s docile plaything while criticizing women who seem to exhibit some form of free will isn’t being decent. It’s just… well, really it’s just another way for you to beat us over the head with what you think 50% of the world’s population should be like; enslaved to the other 50%. And that’s just plain rude.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Just went back to read some of DKM’s earlier rantings… Astounding that MRAL once called this dude a legendary figure amongst the MRAs…

“Who knows, maybe we would evolve toward a truly free society, where women were free TO BE FEMALE as traditionally understood, men would be free to be–and welcomed being– MEN, and we would also be blessed with an inflation (and depression)-proof world with ever improving material standard of living and (men’s) economic opportunity outside the home!”

I can only imagine the phrase “traditionally understood” can only mean tracing back to the earliest known societies, where:

“There was no significant division of labor. Stone Age humans pretty much did the same jobs – at least some of the time. And when the women did remain behind, they spent much of their time inventing the tools and foundations of future society.” – source Bonus points for mentions of mammoth hunting!

With regards to his economics, I’m a bit puzzled… Someone might be able to help me out, but isn’t the idea of a stagnant economy (no inflation or deflation) contradictory to the idea of any sort of overall improvement in standard of living and economic opportunity?

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/

Since I’m spamming, here’s my tumblr! 😀

It’s now been talked about on 2 feminist blogs! 😀 I’m waiting for the MRA “BUT MEN HAVE IT WORSE IN COMICS” response xD

I’ve gotten a troll like that on my blog before XD (BUT MEN HAVE TO BE RICH AND BILLIONAIRES LIKE TONY STARK AND BRUCE WAYNNNNNEEEE!!!!! I WILL IGNORE ALL OTHER MALE SUPERHERO OCCUPATIONSSSSSS! XDDD )

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

I thought MRAL called Eoghan the legendary figure… xD

Are they ALLL legendary figures to MRAL? o:

We should ask MRAL who are his top MRA idols 😀

OMFG MRA IDOL! REALITY SHOW!!!

Now I want to do this xD

WHO WIL WIN MRA IDOL! TUNE IN TONIGHT!

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

David K. Meller | November 7, 2011 at 7:48 pm

I gave a reply to your query about my favorite women, past and present, fictional or non-fiction, zhinxi,

Hey DKM can you do me a favour and recite the alphabet for us? 😀

I want to test a theory xD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

I’m soft and fluffy! 😀

*bounces around*

but DKM hates me xD

So I think he lies XD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Srsly… I’m like the MRA perfect idea of a woman xD I’m uber femme… super boppy… optimistic, forgiving, nice, happy… cute, thin, ASIAAANNNNNNNN… I like all the right girl things: Barbie, Cats, Bunnies, GIANT LASERS OF DOOMMMMMMMM!!! I can run in heels, enjoy wearing skirts (and pants! *GASP* ) and they all think I have an IQ of -500 xD

And yet they all are frightened of me and think I’m vile and cruel xD

I think they know not what they desire… XD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAHHHAAAA

😀

It’s Amis ALL THE WAY DOWN! >:D

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Ami and I should have a cute-off. Who is the most adorable one of all?

Well, maybe Ami wins by virtue of not being a goth. I’m more cute in a Wednesday Addams sort of way. But a guy who I’ve worked with before who I’m setting up another interview with did describe me as “the lovely British girl with the pretty curls”. And I’m only 5ft2!

But I have free will, and I think Meller is a sexist toolbox, therefore clearly I am evil.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Also I don’t usually bother commenting on his economic theories, because the rest of the crew seem to have it covered, but really, dude, take an economics class. Maybe crack open a macroeconomics textbook occasionally. The American dollar is not about to fail at any moment, inflation at the rate it has experienced is normal and not a sign of crisis, and any actual economic problems that the US has cannot be solved just by throwing gold at them.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Also, is it just me or does anyone else get the urge to call him Gimli when he starts babbling about money? Gold! Grouchy and conservative! But a bit too exciteable, overall, and not nearly as endearing.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

As a fat woman with curly hair, I am both soft and fluffy.

Philippa
Philippa
10 years ago

This may be a bit OT, but I’m interested in getting to know a few of you quite a bit better, so if Mr Meller won’t answer the question what do the others here think? You are your favorite female fictional protagonists or women you consider to be role models?

Personally, I have a fondness for Elizabeth Bennett (witty, funny and with a heart big enough to admit a mistake) Elizabeth the First (yes we can be wise and effective rulers, even under very difficult conditions) Isabella, from Measure for Measure (there was one incredibly brave and admirable woman) Rosamund from As you Like It (now there was a woman who knew how to enjoy herself) Viola, from Twelfth Night (sad and lost but found herself eventually) and for sheer bloody-minded courage and determination it’s difficult to go past Ofred from A Handmaid’s Tale. All these women had relationships with men (although Ofred and Isabella’s were nightmares) but aren’t subsumed into them and they never lose their identities.

Do other people have favorites?

Philippa
Philippa
10 years ago

Cassandra says:

“Also, is it just me or does anyone else get the urge to call him Gimli when he starts babbling about money? Gold! Grouchy and conservative! But a bit too exciteable, overall, and not nearly as endearing.”

I think that might be doing Gimli an injustice. After all, valued his friend Legolas enough to leave all his gold and run away with him to the East. I doubt that Mr Meller would do such a thing because 1. Gold 2. People might think he’s gay and We Can’t Have That.

Philippa
Philippa
10 years ago

There is more to manners than refraining from profane language and praising the kind of woman you find attractive.

Refraining from wishing horrifically painful illnesses and deaths on those of us you dislike would be an excellent start.

darksidecat
10 years ago

Maybe Thorin? We do have a line in the Hobbit about how he would rather sit on a heap of gold and starve than share. Though Thorin does realize the error of his ways at the end and comments that gold and silver aren’t much use when you are dead (essentially).

Meller, here’s a few basics you might want to take into account: 1) states make laws, 2) even under old British Common Law (which the bulk of the world has never used) you misconstrue the elements (old British Common Law allowed both bank notes and promisory notes, though the rules regarding liability differed from later American law) 3) look up the term “endorser” and “endorsee”. This is like trying to have an argument about satellite technology with a flat earther, you know so very little about the subject.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

Philippa, well you’ve said a lot of my favorites, especially Elizabeth Bennett. I also liked Elinor Dashwood from Sense and Sensibility. And I know it’s a kids book but Pippi Longstocking was a big childhood hero of mine. Do movies and tv shows count? Scully is really great in the first few seasons but then she turns totally lame, I was pretty annoyed at what happened to her character.

Dracula
Dracula
10 years ago

Another key difference is that Meller, unlike Gimli, probably would have told Galadriel that the elves would be better off if she deferred to Celeborn’s natural manly authority and went back to the kitchen to bake some lembas for the boys.

Dracula
Dracula
10 years ago

That’s assuming, of course, that being in the presence of woman bearing a Ring of Power wouldn’t make Meller wet himself in terror and run away.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

Ooh, fav female protagonists? So many I literally couldn’t possibly list them all, but among them are Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan from the best Bujold series evah, Alanna from those Tamora Pierce books, Cimorene from Patricia C. Wrede, Granny fucking Weatherwax from Discworld, various characters from Lackey’s Valdemar world, and if we can count TV shows then the women of BSG, Firefly, and Parks and Recreation get shoutouts too. But there are a billion more.

Most of these women are notable for not being particularly fluffy or soft, all are quite smart, and many of them are downright militant and spiky (Granny Weatherwax is spiky in the stab-you-with-hatpins way, for example.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

You’re also cute, Holly! You like soft fluffy animals, which is very womanly and suitable for a sweet old fashioned girl! But since you’re not a doormat, clearly you’re not deserving of life in Meller’s post-apocalyptic paradise.

And it’s true, Gimli has redeeming qualities that Meller completely lacks. As he himself has pointed out, Meller’s only redeeming quality is that he doesn’t use as much profanity as the other trolls. Then again, even NWO doesn’t openly fantasise about killing off 95% of women.

Aside – I’m really starting to see why Ami gets under their skins so much. She’s like a Powerpuff Girl, and people who’re filled to the brim with hate just don’t know how to deal with that kind of sunny positivity.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Also, almost all of Pratchett’s female characters would get at least a small spot on my list, which is one of the many reasons he’s such a remarkable writer.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

Also just all of Pratchett’s Monstrous Regiment. Just all of it.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
10 years ago

Ninjaed! 😀

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