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Now is the time for A Voice for Men to ask: “Are we the baddies?”

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By David Futrelle

In 2010, men’s rights lawyer Roy Dean Hollander wrote an inflammatory piece for the men’s rights hate site A Voice for Men declaring that men might be forced to take up arms to defeat what he saw as the tyranny of feminism.

Several weeks ago, Den Hollander took his own advice, gunning down the son and husband of a female judge he had tangled with in the past; the son died of his wounds. Several days earlier he killed rival men’s rights attorney Marc Angelucci.

If you thought Den Hollander’s murders would have occasioned some soul searching on the part of the folks at AVFM, you would be dead wrong. Site foinder Paul Elam and others associated with the site offered no apoligies for publishing Den Hollander’s screed (or for a later post by Elam effusively praising him as a “real man”); instead they insisted to anyone who would listen that Den Hollander wasn’t a real men’s rights activist at all and had nothing to do with them.

On Tuesday, AVFM published a post by Gary Costanza referring to Den Hollander’s murder of Angelucci which somehow managed to avoid mentioning both his name and his previous connection to the site, referring to him only as a “demented person.”

Down the memory hole he goes.

Den Hollander – who killed himself shortly after his assault on the judge’s family – was not the only “demented person” in AVFM’s past.

You may be familiar with the name Chris Cantwell – he’s perhaps better known as “the Crying Nazi,” infamous for a teary video he put out after hearing that there was a warrant out for his arrest for several counts of assault at the notorious Unite the Right rally in 2017. Before going full Nazi, you see, Cantwell wrote a number of pieces for AVFM on such topics as IQ, the evils of gun control, and feminists “who demonize men and white people.” When, at the time he was writing for AVFM, I criticized his online harassment of some of his many enemies, Elam wrote a post defending Cantwell and advising me to kill myself.

Cantwell, not only a political activist but quite the gun enthusiast, has been a busy boy in the last several years; his rap sheet is too long and complicated to easily summarize here, but he’s served time for assault and currently sits in jail awaiting trial on charges of threats and extortion against a fellow neo-Nazi. Given his love of guns and his utter lack of impulse control, I think it’s kind of a miracle he hasn’t shot anyone yet.

Over the years, Elam has befriended and published several other men’s rights activists who frankly seem as unhinged as Den Hollander and Cantwell; thankfully none of them have acted out in the same way.

In Constanza’s post today, he urges fellow MRAs to “redouble our efforts” in the wake of Angelucci’s murder.

I would suggest that fans of the site do some serious self-reflection first. Is there a reason their side – and their site — attracts so many “demented” individuals? Perhaps this is not simply bad luck? Perhaps it’s because, to paraphrase a famous comedy routine by Mitchell and Webb, they are the baddies?

H/T — to Twitter’s @TakedownMRAs, who inspired this post.

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Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@stacy

Same

skimmingway
skimmingway
2 years ago

@Naglfart

I insist that you take back what you said about my prose being unintelligible; though I do trust my sensibilities in saying that it is quite stylish, the proper composition of sentences being a skill that is rapidly disappearing from our declining civilization (if I might still be so bold as to describe it as such), it is by no means indecipherable. You are merely lacking in the necessary comprehension skills required to parse such elegant work, for I have read my previous comment several times and at no such time have I ever believed it to be incomprehensible. Should everyone on our planet have reading skills as uncouth and rudimentary as yours, it is likely that Proust should have gone unread (I am aware of Proustian tendencies within my prose, and I make no apology).

Also, at what point did Wendy’s ever have waiters? It is a fast-food joint, I have never personally witnessed a person who might be described as a “waiter” among their ranks. Certainly, you don’t mean to imply that you have been so bold as to describe the contents of a restaurant that you, personally, have never dared to patronize?

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
2 years ago

Hello again everyone! It’s been a long time but it’s good to see many of the regular commenters here still. David you’re doing a great job and I’m sending a contribution your way.

Ah, and I’m just in time for a particularly ridiculous troll! I always have bad luck and miss them. At last I get to see the live action. I see the commentariat is doing its usual fine job.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@david

Oh my god I didn’t even noticed it. Yeah I must have misspelled it without the w and then my phone saved it like that everytime I typed it.

I’m very not straight and that is 100% a typo

Snowberry
Snowberry
2 years ago

Long-winded eruditicy serves to hide one of three things: that the message has very little actual substance, or that the assertions are unsupported or highly dubious, or that the speaker doesn’t actually understand the subject they’re talking about. Fortunately, there are people who can cut through the BS. Unfortunately, there are people who can’t, and some of them can be convinced just because it sounds smart.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@skimmingway

You are in no position to demand anything you boring ass nazi piece of shit.

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@skimmingway

I insist that you take back what you said about my prose being unintelligible

Nah.

I do trust my sensibilities in saying that it is quite stylish

Try adding a little bit more substance, otherwise it’s like baking with no flour.

the proper composition of sentences being a skill that is rapidly disappearing from our declining civilization

It’s a skill disgraced by fools like you who use it to cover up for the way that you have nothing of value to say.

it is by no means indecipherable

You are merely lacking in the necessary comprehension skills required to parse such elegant work

Oh, I can read it fine, it’s just there’s nothing worth reading in it.

Out of curiosity, is this how you talk to people in person?

And, have you heard of the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest? You should consider submitting.

@Pavlovs House
Welcome back!

@Snowberry
I think in Skimmingway’s case, it’s all three. He doesn’t have much worth saying, what he does have to say is garbage, and he hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about. This describes much of the far right. He’s a demonstration of projection, the Dunning-Kruger Effect, and the way alt rightists write all in one.

Snowberry
Snowberry
2 years ago

@Skimmingway:

Should everyone on our planet have reading skills as uncouth and rudimentary as yours, it is likely that Proust should have gone unread

This explains a lot about you. Proust is a total hack.

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
2 years ago

@skimmingway

What of those of you who elevate terrorists such as John Brown to hero status?

Although I don’t consider John Brown a terrorist but rather and insurrectionist with a legitimate cause, I do consider him a hero.

I wonder, do you think it’s “manly” to study military history? I like studying military history, so much that I decided to get a doctorate it and teach it.

Other people who considered John Brown a hero include Julia Ward Howe and the hundreds of thousands of blue-uniform-wearing, .58 caliber Enfield carrying, *Confederate-killing* soldiers of the United States Army who sang Julia Ward Howe’s Battle Hymn of the Republic which, one might recall when discussing John Brown’s legacy, was set to the tune of a contemporary song lauding John Brown, “John Brown’s Body”

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@Pavlovs House
Skimmingway doesn’t know much about history, as he continues to believe in fascism even after it’s been proven time and time again that it doesn’t work.

Clever4agirl
Clever4agirl
2 years ago

I didn’t see who asked, but yes, those electrified tennis racket lookin things are used for recreational spankies. You can even find them in your local bdsm warehouse.

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
2 years ago

@skimmingway

you defend his legacy

So…Franklin Roosevelt’s legacy is up for discussion?

Yes I defend, celebrate, enjoy and am eternal grateful for the most important element of his legacy:

***forging the most powerful military and political coalition that ever existed for the purpose of DESTROYING FASCISM***

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@Clever4agirl
I stand corrected, thank you for clarifying.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
2 years ago

@Lainy

I hope you are doing good and your beloved and you are safe.

skimmingway
skimmingway
2 years ago

@Naglfart

I do speak in very much the same manner in which I write, and while it does present a series of challenges that speaking in a manner more uncultured might not be heir to, I refuse to simplify myself for people too simple or otherwise too absorbed with whatever dull affairs are surely keeping them distracted from the things I wish to impart to them.

I will not be misled into submitting my work into any such contest where it might be treated with scorn or derision by ears too untrained to appreciate the rare musicality of my mellifluous prose; I believe that, in any other century than our own, I would likely have been published by now. I am presently composing a philosophical novel which will provide curious readers with a blue print for escaping and even thriving in our perilous times – I suspect that I may one day reach the heights of the Russian greats, I will be seen not as a man constrained by the vapid trappings of the present, but as a seer, a true man of the future.

Lainy
Lainy
2 years ago

@skimmingway

So basically people are happy and don’t want to listen to the stupid crap you spew and that makes you mad. Lol okay

@stacy

His base is in lock down but he is alright. Just can’t leave his barracks. I on the other hand am enjoying a bath with lavender salts right now so I am doing great. Sending him pictures and driving him up a wall a bit but that’s all just in good fun.

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
2 years ago

@Naglfar

Thank you! We are working hard teaching our officer-candidates here in this difficult public health situation. Ms. Pavlov’s House works night and day in her hospital being her ever-valiant and utterly-brilliant nurse self. On my end, the wheels of scholarship grind forward. I see you are your usual thoughtful self.

Best wishes to all valiant Mammothteers (not to the troll).

numerobis
numerobis
2 years ago

Naglfar, I demand you take back your words against baking with no flour.*

There’s excellent no-flour cakes out there.

Also, lasagna.

And drying chili for a backpacking trip (oven on 170 for about 12 hours, spread the chili thin on a couple of cookie sheets, stir every hour or so).

* did I get the style right?

Viscaria
Viscaria
2 years ago

I do speak in very much the same manner in which I write, and while it does present a series of challenges that speaking in a manner more uncultured might not be heir to, I refuse to simplify myself for people too simple or otherwise too absorbed with whatever dull affairs are surely keeping them distracted from the things I wish to impart to them.

See, I don’t believe you even a little tiny bit because your writing has gotten much sillier since people have commented on your stilted prose. You are a fake fancy talker, but a real misogynist and a real racist. Congrats.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
2 years ago

@Lainy

Oh, that’s awesome, you deserve that relaxation! That’s so awesome that you two enjoy connecting just as you can. I hope you will be in each other’s arms soon.

I’m working on my temple project planning…huge, huge project but exciting 🙂

Karalora
Karalora
2 years ago

Wait…liberals want to ban fire?

@Skimmingway…which rule states, in its entirety, “People are stupid”?

Ariblester
Ariblester
2 years ago

I am entirely unsurprised that skimmingway has not dared to address my comment.

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 years ago

@skimmingway

while it does present a series of challenges that speaking in a manner more uncultured might not be heir to

Like that nobody wants to listen to you?

I will not be misled into submitting my work into any such contest where it might be treated with scorn or derision by ears too untrained to appreciate the rare musicality of my mellifluous prose

Rare musicality? I’m a musician and composer and I haven’t a clue what is musical about your word vomiting.

I believe that, in any other century than our own, I would likely have been published by now

I am here to tell you that no, you would be getting the same weird looks in the past as the present.

I am presently composing a philosophical novel which will provide curious readers with a blue print for escaping and even thriving in our perilous times

I’m sure it will be a delightful read, but isn’t the market for “weirdo pretentious reactionary political tracts” a bit oversaturated right now?

a true man of the future.

Weird that you’re so obsessed with failed ideologies of the past, then. Fascism and capitalism are the past.

@numerobis

There’s excellent no-flour cakes out there.

Touché. Unlike Skimmingway, I acknowledge when I make mistakes and adjust my writing accordingly.

@Ariblester

I’m entirely unsurprised that skimmingway has not dared to address my comment.

He’s very selective about what he responds to. I wonder why… /s

Snowberry
Snowberry
2 years ago

Okay, this is hilarious. Not only is Skimmingway rapidly becoming a self-parody, he’s openly admitting to delusions of grandeur.

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
2 years ago

@skimmingway

I believe that, in any other century than our own, I would likely have been published by now.

Why do you think that? Do you know how commercial publishing worked in earlier centuries? Your conjecture about your potential suggests that you do not.

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