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open thread trump

Trump surrenders, Stone arrested: A rare slightly cheerful open thread

By David Futrelle

Today’s big news day began before sunrise, with FBI officers pounding on the door of Roger Stone’s home in Florida. And now Trump has surrendered on the shutdown, allowing the government to reopen, at least temporarily, without funding for the wall.

So it’s been a pretty good day, so far. Discuss. Or discuss anything else you want to discuss. No trolls, though.

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Matchstick
Matchstick
3 years ago

On this side of the Atlantic I don’t always pick up all the nuances of US Political events but the way it looks is that Peloski completely outplayed Trump not only painting this as Trump’s shutdown (with Trump’s active help to begin with) with the corresponding damage to Republican politicians but also kicking him squarely in the narcissism with the refusal to allow him the State of the Union address.

Is that fair assessment ?

And if so will this help energise the Dems by showing very clearly they can take the fight to Trump and win ?

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Trump caved!

comment image

Of course, he has to save face by threatening a national emergency unless wall, but everyone sees that he’s lost this round, and he must be seething about that. Let’s hope he doesn’t lash out as a distraction (Venezuela?)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Nice tweet I’ve just seen.

“If Trump really wanted to see Hilary locked up, he should have hired her to work on his campaign”

Ichthyic
Ichthyic
3 years ago

How is Trump threatening shutdown over his personal peeves not extortion?

why has he not been charged with extortion?

I don’t get it.

Ichthyic
Ichthyic
3 years ago

the way it looks is that Peloski completely outplayed Trump

It’s Pelosi, but I far prefer Peloski, comrade.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 years ago

Thanks @Alan, I needed that. It’s gotten to where any remotely positive political development shocks me to the core.

Matchstick
Matchstick
3 years ago

@Ichthyic my GRU handler is never going to let me live that one down !!! 🙂

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 years ago

@Ichthyic

Because Presidents are and always have been above the law. Trump is just the first one to really take that to its limit. (Which is saying something TBH, considering past abuses.)

Gods damn this country, for year after year giving one man the power to murder the entire world at the push of a button, and believing it was necessary and no bad would come of it. Gods damn us.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago

And now Ann Coulter is sneering at Trump, and there are rumors she wants to be his primary challenger in 2020.

I’d love to know what Pelosi’s next move is, but for now I’m content to know that there won’t be a SOTU speech until the funding is permanent.

littlem
littlem
3 years ago

My mama said when she saw him in that polo and jeans instead of his usual dandified insanity

“No Atmosphere”

https://twitter.com/AndrewGillum/status/1088883158043578369

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
3 years ago

It was such a beautiful way to wake up this morning. I sorely missed indictment Fridays. Lets hope they keep it up! Looking at you Don Jr.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

Yay I read it in other sites and I am pleased. It is a good day indeed. Trump folded like an omelet.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

I know the man worships Nixon to a ridiculous degree, but why on earth did he think that giving the Nixon salute (two raised V-for-victory signs) was a good idea?

Blutarsky
Blutarsky
3 years ago

More about Trump and his posse, less about incel losers and other misogynists.

Michael Suttkus, II
Michael Suttkus, II
3 years ago

It is the opinion of the US Justice Department that a sitting president cannot be indicted, only impeached. I, personally, do not consider this a correct reading of the Constitution, but I’m not a Constitutional law expert and my opinion is irrelevant anyway. What’s important is that Mueller is operating under Justice Department guidelines, so he is not seeking any indictment against Trump. He will present a report to Congress who will act (or not) on impeachment, possibly after indicting every other single person Trump has ever had dealings with.

dashapants
dashapants
3 years ago

@Victorious Parasol

Eh, the way I see it, we don’t need a SOTU address. Everyone can pretty much tell that the union is royally fucked atm. Maybe we should have a SOD (state of discord) address instead.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

@Michael Suttkus, II

Not any sort of legal expert, but can’t Mueller also leave some sealed indictments around to be opened one minute after the next president is sworn in, and have the blowhard arrested as he leaves that ceremony (assuming he even goes to it, if it comes after he gets his ass whoops in the next election)?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ rabid rabbit

Me neither, but I had occasion to read up on this. There’s no limit on how long an indictment can remain sealed before arraignment. Also, with regards to any statute of limitation issues, the clock stops running the moment the indictment is returned by the grand jury, regardless of when the actual trial takes place.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

@Alan:

Another of my pipe dreams. “Mr. Trump, thank you for attending. By the way, I believe the director of the FBI would like to have a word.” “Ah, Mr. Trump. I don’t think an FBI director in service has done this since Hoover went after Dillinger, but I didn’t want to deprive myself. So anyway, though I know you don’t understand this concept, you have the right to remain silent…”

Then they take away his cellphone, and he implodes at not being able to get on Twitter.

Full Metal Ox
3 years ago

So does anyone here know whether impeachment and the 25th Amendment can both be deployed, or does the latter imply mental incompetence to stand trial?

Sheila Crosby
3 years ago

I am not a lawyer. But I have seen the opinion that the “can’t indicte a sitting president” thing was a departmental policy created when there was widespread discussion about indicting Bill Clinton for lying about Monica Lewinsky. And that said policy might need updating if the charge were “working for Putin” rather than “lying about one’s sex life.”

As i say, I am not a laywer, but it sounds plausible and therefore slightly hopeful.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

I don’t like systems of government which concentrate so much power in one person’s hands. If the president can unilaterally shut down the government, and they’re above the law, that’s already too much, even without considering the nuclear launch protocols. I think this is a system which needs radical change, but I suppose there’s little chance of that.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
3 years ago

I think the logic is that it would be too disruptive for the country to have a sitting president going through the criminal justice system, that they would be unable to do the job. For a normal presidency, this might be a solid policy. As we saw during the Clinton and Obama presidencies, the right will do absolutely anything, no matter how unethical to disrupt a Democratic administration. But Trump’s presence in the White House is more disruptive to the nation that prosecuting, jailing him, and removing from office would be. It’s a policy, not a law, and I wish Mueller hadn’t just automatically taken indictment off the table.

brian
brian
3 years ago

this is good news for sure, but until Mueller indicts Kushner I’ll remain unconvinced of the investigation’s efficacy.

Ariblester
3 years ago

@Moggie

If the president can unilaterally shut down the government

They can’t. Only Congress can shut the government down, by not approving budgets. The President can exercise his veto and refuse to sign a bill into law, but Presidential vetoes can be overridden by a two-thirds vote in Congress.

Trump could only shut the government down because Congress was deadlocked on the budget, because the Republican Party wanted to support one of their own (i.e. Trump himself), and because neither party had the two-thirds majority required to override Trump’s inevitable veto of any wall-less budget (well, until he caved, anyway).

And herein lies the problem: separation of powers is pointless when party politics is the overriding factor for decision-making in government.

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