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Happy Thanksgiving and/or Thursday! Open Thread

Happy Thanksgiving, to everyone who celebrates it! And a very merry Thursday to everyone who doesn’t.

Because I haven’t provided a health update in a while (outside of the comments) I just wanted to reassure everyone that I am still here, and still trying to sort through a bunch of medical issues with the help of assorted doctors, some very competent and others not so much.

The issues I’m facing aren’t lifethreatening, but they are still debilitating enough to keep me from regular posting here. Sorry to be so vague; I’ll offer more details once some of these issues are sorted out a bit more. I’ll return to posting as soon as I am able but I cannot predict when that will be.

I appreciate everyone’s patience and continued support. Thanks!

674 replies on “Happy Thanksgiving and/or Thursday! Open Thread”

@Ooglyboggles

At a minimum, I’m guessing Putin will be extremely put out, because Russia won’t have a chance to crush anybody as part of a global sports event. The Soviet Union sure didn’t like it when the US beat them at hockey back in the 80s.

It’s huge. It’ll be interesting to see which athletes choose to try and compete neutral and who will not bother. I won’t be surprised if there’s pressure on the athletes to refuse to go. There was talk of this happening in Rio but ultimately I think it was just the track and field team that got banned, not the whole delegation. I do remember gymnast Aliya Mustafina saying she wouldn’t compete unless it was for Russia. Selfishly, I was glad the total ban didn’t occur because I’m a big fan of her!

I’m kind of back and forth about how to feel about this. On the one hand, a scandal this huge deserves a huge punishment. On the other hand, the athletes who didn’t dope will be punished even though they’re innocent.

At a minimum, I’m guessing Putin will be extremely put out, because Russia won’t have a chance to crush anybody as part of a global sports event. The Soviet Union sure didn’t like it when the US beat them at hockey back in the 80s.

Canada on the other hand….

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/cms/binary/9357284.jpg

*sigh* I wish Sid the Kid was making an appearance in Pyeongchang. Up yours Bettman. Well, at least we still got Marie Philip-Poulin to take it to Amanda Kessel.

Grrrr, Kessel…. *shakes fist*

@Katamount:
Heh. Yeah, it has been a while. Cranston tended to be in the ‘screw the technical, I’m doing art‘ crowd, which is part of why he never actually got gold at big international competitions, but often got artistic medals. I actually saw Strawberry Ice, a big skating production he wrote, back when it was first run.

I also still remember the Wayne & Schuster skit where they were going through a prop vault, and I think it was Schuster who picked up a pair of children’s skates and said they had ‘previously belonged to the world’s smallest figure skater… Shorter Cranston’. (That’s one of those jokes where you know if someone groans, you can limit where and when they grew up pretty significantly.)

@Shadowplay
I’ll think about your list. I am trying to simply my thinking and that is the kind of thing that can help. “Breaking”, “one’s price”, “Irrational defense despite observable evidence to the contrary”, and “deal breaker” are things applicable to interactions on an image board like 4chan. I’m trying to create a mental model of the social environment surrounding a post on /pol/ or it’s equivalent on 8chan, or the comments on a blog post or news article.

With respect to my reference to emotional exhaustion I would consider a warning about emotional exhaustion sufficient. This is about the idea of establishing an extended social presence on a place like /pol/ with long term goals. A list of things to do that requires posting in threads that will get pecked at and reasonably interacted with simultaneously. I want to make sure anyone thinking about such a thing at least has an idea about what they could experience.

Because people:) yes. Your observations about people are things I think about as well. Withdrawal is not something I have thought about with respect to such a group project and I’ll note that one because I’ve mostly thought about what aggression looks like on an image board and some ways of responding both in posts as individuals and as a group (in assertive and receptive roles). That’s good to add to the milieu.

Increased aggression is on the list of things to be able to thing about and interact with. I’m a person that likes to fight and reasons to fight is something I’ve had to think about a lot. It’s a neutral in terms of defending any conflicts to the community around a group posting on /pol/. Dominance displays against the group and anything associated with the group need defined. That social pressure needs to be outlined in terms of what counts as social dominance on that board and in the broader society.

Alt-personalities are a worthwhile thing to mention since that is a reality of posting on the internet in terms of general cultural importance and that harm looks like. I’m interested in what examples of alt-personality you mean. I’m a furry, brony, and have otherkin acquaintances. I’m interested in positive and negative examples.

Immediate impressions and long term reputations are things one would have to think about a lot. Those would have to be individual topics for anyone thinking about long term interactions in /pol/ with specific goals. Things to avoid with people you have not met before, ideals and brutal reality. You can use their reputation against them as well fortunately. And I suspect there are flaws associated with always posting as “Anonymous”, it is in the culture so it does alter behavior.

Acting amused about what one is angry about is something that would often be seen on a place like /pol/. That and base insult can be listed with other useful ways that can be expected to convey an expectation. That’s all alongside the people responding reasonably. Imagine speculating about the rapist content of /pol/ on /b/, or 4chan on /b/ as legitimate topics. What can the first 100 replies look like? Ten ways to divide the kinds of reactions on /pol/ and maybe someone could start thinking about long term strategies and related things like schismatic behavior over ideas. I think I fear flaws in my perspective here.

What do you mean by self-blackmail? I have a thing where I try to be honest about in my flaws in a public context so I take them more seriously. I find that not only is honesty good, it’s smart from a long term cognitive health perspective and has social benefits even in a place like 4chan.

To wrap this up can I ask if my use of “fight or flight” was sensitive? For general communication purposes I’m looking for transition points into what Tourette’s Syndrome feels like and, well my sensitivity is kind of…yeah.

@Crazy dog lady

Sorry, I know very little about the UK health system. I hope someone else here can answer your question!

Toller Cranston usually won the free skate, but his downfall was the compulsory figures. Supposedly, he threw his patch skates into a pond in disgust after getting poor marks at 1976 Worlds.

His main contribution to history, besides Strawberry Ice and trippy paintings, was making it OK for male skaters to ditch the stiff military bearing and raise their hands above their waists.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meaniesays:

I thought that a major problem with the US Iceskating Team was that a whole bunch of them were killed in a plane crash back in the 1950’s, and that set the program back for decades.

Or am I misremembering things again?

@Crazy dog lady –

it’s unlikely to change. Pharmacists have had to do extra training for the morning after pill for the last 10 years, exactly the same as well woman clinics and sexual health clinics, so they can provide consultations.
However – try the Royal Pharmaceutical Society as well as your MP. As the biggest trade organisation, they’ll probably have information.

@Katamount (LOL!), Jenura, Buttercup: Ah, yes, Toller Cranston. 🙂 I admit I was more into Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning, way back when I was still watching. Was always pissed the women were never as well covered (or did as well – Karen Magnussen is the only name I can recall). Apparently that’s been changing recently. 🙂

@Brony

Going to be a quickish response – only got up to feed a couple of rather insistant cats. Reverse order since I’m scrolling up to copy. Be more later. 🙂

To wrap this up can I ask if my use of “fight or flight” was sensitive?

Nah, it was absolutely fine. I liked your description of it being always on, though for me it’s more like a high voltage cable wrapped in silk.

What do you mean by self-blackmail?

It’s how peer pressure works, mostly. Peers are not forcing someone to do something, they force themselves to do it to fit in, and by doing so become far more willing participants than someone who IS being forced by others. Self blackmail seems a good way of describing it.

Things to avoid with people you have not met before, ideals and brutal reality. You can use their reputation against them as well fortunately. And I suspect there are flaws associated with always posting as “Anonymous”, it is in the culture so it does alter behavior.

+ following paragraph of yours

I’m not a channer (or redditor) by any means, just a casual observer. However, one thing I have noticed – the culture is very, very similar to that of prisons, with reputation being paramount and the potential for physical violence swapped out for potential for mobbing. It’s a possible avenue of study, as prison dynamics is an area with extensive literature.

I’m interested in what examples of alt-personality you mean.

This one will have to wait for now, if you don’t mind. It’s too complex for 4AM 🙂 .

Withdrawal is not something I have thought about with respect to such a group project

It’s a fascinating aspect of conflict. The biggest problem in the environment you are looking at though is separating out withdrawal from naturally short attention spans. Declaring victory and moving on is a manosphere trope – it’s also one of the ways of withdrawing.

Scooting back to bed now. Talk more later! 🙂

Something broke, is breaking still. Not like a glass breaks or like a heart breaks, but like the shell of an egg breaks — inexorably, and from the inside. Something wet and angry is fighting its way out of the dark, and it has claws.

<crack, peck, sqwawk>

“What species is this?”

“Erm, Velociraptor.”

“You bred raptors?!”

(first thing to spring to mind 🙂 …)

Chuck Schumer is himself Jewish and has long been a fairly hardline supporter of the Israeli regime. Jews have long been the primary group of rich/affluent people who tend to lean left politically, which has given them a lot of influence in the Democratic Party. (Elizabeth Warren, for all her leftishness, has been [IMO] excessively pro-Israeli.) This gives the Israeli Lobby strong support on both sides of the aisle and is one of the principal reasons that US policy has been so one-sidedly anti-Palestinian.

About a week ago I commented about the woman who was shot by a hunter while hanging out her laundry on her backyard clothesline. A few mornings ago I looked out and saw two deer grazing under our backyard clothesline, so perhaps clotheslines are a good place to hunt for deer after all.

@Arctic Ape

I’m calling these two groups “parallel drainage systems”, if that sounds both science-y and easy to understand to random English speakers around the world.

Drainage of excess water might be called “overflow”. I’d be tempted to use “cascade”, too. It’s a nice word.

Mammoths may already be aware that our old pal Milo Y. is currently down here in Oz. Here are some highlights of one of his shows:

A huge-screen picture of feminist Clem Ford as a teenager, with the word “unfuckable” across it, in all caps
Clem Ford described as a “fat cunt” and a “pig”.
Aboriginal art is “shit” and “really crap”.
Muslims are “rapists” and “terrorists”.

Trying so hard to be a bad boy! Dear, oh dear. My favourite comment was from an article by Jeff Sparrow:

Yiannopoulos doesn’t do real controversy. On the contrary, his act consists of repeating back to white conservatives, in exaggerated form, what they already think.

Apparently the audience, which included families, were bemused at the criticisms of M.Y. “He can’t be fascist – isn’t he Jewish?”. “How could he be racist? He has a black husband!” etc. etc.

And standing side by side among his supporters, who clashed with protesters, were a neo-Nazi by the name of Neil Erikson who used to terrorise rabbis, and Avi Yemini, a former member of the IDF who now runs a Krav Maga gym.
Muh head is hurts…

Muh head is hurts…

yeah… mine, too

Milo, like his idol donnie-the-dumpster-fire, desperately wants people to pay attention to him….

@ mish

Avi Yemini

Just read up on him.

“We need to take the anti-Semitism out of fascism”

Er…

“We need to take the anti-Semitism out of fascism”

I’d say the State of Israel has done a pretty good job of that for much of its history….

Fascism as a political persuasion isn’t necessarily anti-semetic, though most of the iterations of it that we’ve seen in modern times have been… more, I believe, as a result of “Jews-as-a-convenient-target/scapegoat” thinking than as a result of anything inherent in fascism.

I am sad Russia will not compete – because of those who did not cheat. but also it is good news for other nations, because Russia is very good in winter sports.

second, regarding hockey, Russian hockey players were very good when they are allowed to play in their team together. when they separate out between Canadian and American teams individually, this is when they become week. and third, Russian hockey players use very different style from American and Canadian. in Russia hockey is not aggressive contact sport it is in USA and csnada. first Soviet players who go to Canada and America in 1970s are shocked by how Canadians and Americans play. they use force but Soviets use skill and precision. it is very hard for soviet players to adapt when they allowed to play for American and Canadian teams. also wives of Soviet players experience exclusion and bullying because they are Soviet.

@Valentin

Meant to ask you a bit ago – how’s your kitty getting on? Nose clearing up?

@shadow

he is well thank you )) he has a chest infection and he is taking antibiotics but his nose is normal now

@Valentin

That reminds me of a picture I saw in the Hockey Hall of Fame of the ’72 Summit Series where all the Canadian players were lined up on one side and all the Soviet players on the other. All the Soviet players were wearing helmets. None of the Canadian players were. Just totally different cultures. In just two years, the Broad Street Bullies would smash their way to back to back Stanley Cups.

I’m sure a huge chunk of it is machismo, but definitely in the early days of the NHL, there’s an element of desperation to reach that pinnacle. The example of Johnny Bower in particular: poor kid from Prince Albert, Saskatchewan struggling in the minor leagues as a goalie. Only six pro teams back in the 40s, each with one goalie. He had to demonstrate he was willing to take pucks to his bare face over and over again. It caught Punch Imlach’s attention and Bower’s a legend to this day.

Terry Sawchuk though… his story is a little more tragic….

@Katamount

I think maybe Soviet was more conservative but I think they both train very hard. if I remember correctly, Soviet hockey players must to stay in special training house for 11 months from every year. and they don’t see their family. but they train differently from USA and Canada. how they approach hockey is different from them but same intensity.

@Mish

Milo Y is pretty much Bart Simpson here:

https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JdW8atJKCBeGY2A/giphy.gif

“Wendy Windbag? Ugly Doris? Hortense the Mule-Faced Doll! No, Loudmouth Lisa! Stupid Lisa Garbage Face! I can’t stand this any longer. Somebody please pay attention to me! Hello, pay attention to me! Look at me! I’m Bart, I’m Bart! Look at me, look at me, look at me!”

All the Soviet players were wearing helmets. None of the Canadian players were.

Some feminists have commented on the fact that, in cricket, batsmen have been wearing boxes (groin protection) since the 1880s but didn’t start wearing helmets until the 1990s.

“We need to take the anti-Semitism out of fascism”

With enough effort, you could really buff that turd to a shine.

Here’s a piece from a few weeks back on #MeToo

This was linked by Laurie Penny in the piece that Victorious Parasol talked about yesterday. It’s angry (good’n’angry!), sardonic, and full of hope

Is #MeToo the crack in the dam of patriarchy (kyriarchy, even?)? I hope so, we all fucking NEED some hope these days….

Aboriginal art is “shit” and “really crap”.

Attempting racism, ending up with fandom baiting.

neo-Nazi by the name of Neil Erikson who used to terrorise rabbis

Well what else do you do with an invasive species that’s wrecking the ecosystem…hey wait.

Pie:

Drainage of excess water might be called “overflow”. I’d be tempted to use “cascade”, too. It’s a nice word.

Drainage cascade, perhaps? I think “overflow” might be confusing when a container of soil is draining from holes in the bottom. Or outright inappropriate.

And as a side-note, the proud British omniclustershamblesfuck that is brexit lurches on … first the vile DUP jerks on the leash because vile May apparently forgot to run a proposed deal past them – a deal that affects them 100% and depends on their support – and then vile David Davis blusters to the Commons cross-party Brexit Committee that – yes, truly – the dog ate his homework.
I can’t help wishing I were watching from another country, because then I could appreciate the black humour :-s

Shadowplay:

Parallel flow systems? Sounds more sciency.

Thanks, I’ll suggest “flow systems” to my advisor.

Brony:

Vertical drainage recapture?

Thanks, but I think in greenhouse cultivation “recapture” suggests something more specific.

@opposablethumbs : I am amazed by how much a clusterfuck it is. It’s also a bit of catharsis to be honest ; but I would prefer to not have that catharsis and not have the english be in that jam.

@Pie : for what it’s worth, in french, “cascade” mean “waterfall”, so it’s not quite that here. But maybe the english word have deviated in meaning.

@Arctic Ape

I just clicked – you’re talking about wall gardening/vertical gardening! Can be rather slow at times. 😛

Seen it called green wall irrigation, if that helps. Biggest problem is diffusing the outflow from the upper so it’s even on the lower ones and doesn’t concentrate in one place/drown the plants directly under/ drill holes in the soil.

(We’ve got a vertical strawberry bed, but it’s troughs, not pots.)

I am sad Russia will not compete – because of those who did not cheat.

Clean athletes will be able to compete under the neutral flag and Putin announced that he won’t try to stop any of those athletes from competing. Any medals won by those athletes will be recorded as “Olympic Athlete from Russia” instead of “Russian Federation.” It’s not ideal as these athletes will I’m sure prefer to represent their country, but a slap on the wrist for systemic state sanctioned doping would not be sufficient to discourage countries from doing this in the future so this is probably the best of an imperfect list of options.

but also it is good news for other nations, because Russia is very good in winter sports.

I can’t speak for fans of other sports, but at least figure skating fans from all over the world are hoping that the Russian skaters will decide to compete. Considering that over thirty years later, a lot of people are still saying that medals won at the 1980 and 1984 games aren’t legit because those Olympics weren’t fully attended, I don’t think it’s good for other countries. In any sport that has Russian medal contenders, people will be questioning if the medal counts.

So far, the only people I’ve seen advocating for clean Russian athletes to refuse to compete have been other Russians who think this is a conspiracy against Russia and it would be unpatriotic for them to go. Personally, I hope that any athlete who decides not to compete does so out of their own free will, not because they fear incurring the wrath of some of the people angry at the decision. Hopefully Putin’s statement that he won’t stand in the way of athletes who want to still compete will calm down some of that sentiment.

Our main problem seemed to be wildly differing water use by different plants, and the sequestration of nutrients at the top. The whole stupid “vertical farming” idea nearly ruined my actual research focus…

Ohlmann:

I am amazed by how much a clusterfuck it is. It’s also a bit of catharsis to be honest ; but I would prefer to not have that catharsis and not have the english be in that jam.

I thought I could no longer be surprised by incompetence and dishonesty from the tories, but I was wrong. It’s mind-blowing.

right now putin is more concerned about this election – he said he will run again. I don’t know if he is using this Olympics ban to draw attention from him and that this election is a sham – no real opposition exists. But it is good he says that athletes can still attend.

But I too hope clean Russian athletes can compete. I believe there is a respect for sporting excellence in Russia which will mean most people support them, they will be happy they attend even if it is not under Russian federation.

I think maybe Soviet was more conservative but I think they both train very hard. if I remember correctly, Soviet hockey players must to stay in special training house for 11 months from every year. and they don’t see their family. but they train differently from USA and Canada. how they approach hockey is different from them but same intensity.

Oh, without a doubt. There’s a reason the Soviets were so dominant from ’56 to ’88; they were deserving of all of their accolades. Tretiak, Fetisov, Larionov, all legends. But it strikes me (and I could be wrong) that the Canadian players of those times had their eyes on the NHL, of which there were only six teams until 1967. Hell, Maurice “Rocket” Richard was doubted early on in his career as being “too soft” after a string of ankle injuries, but he went on to be one of the highest scoring players in NHL history.

I suspect that a lot of this rough and tumble machismo was to get the attention of hard-bitten coaches and GMs the likes of Dick Irvin or Punch Imlach. For some, particularly the goalies, the scars might have been a pride thing. Gump Worsley famously refused to wear a mask well into the 70s, when it had become the norm. When asked why he didn’t, he replied “My face is my mask.” *shrug* Dunno.

when I was younger i play as goalie for small local club on their 2nd team (because no one else want to do it) – I am too small for protection pads so always it fell off and we borrowed protection pads from first team so at practice I just play without. but sadly I never received any scars! (( sometimes I played defensive and I have more injurys there. but really we are not very competitive on my team. we know we are 2nds and we are all very young or very old 😂 after that I switch to football which is more fun.

Our main problem seemed to be wildly differing water use by different plants, and the sequestration of nutrients at the top. The whole stupid “vertical farming” idea nearly ruined my actual research focus…

Different plants as in different species, or variations within the same? Yeah, the nutrient thing is a problem – used to grow beans on the lowest level as they don’t need much added (with thread irrigation to make sure the plants actually get some water to their roots, since the upper two troughs tend to retain most of the water) but – it’s strawberries. Partner loves them and they’re basically free plants once you get the first trough established.
Now I just water each trough independantly twice per season with nutrients rather than relying on the passthrough.

Your research sounds rather neat! 🙂

Shadowplay:

Interspecies variation caused by different substrate treatments, unequal plant material and plants just being plants.

Re: Time POTY cover

Donald Trump was probably going to be featured in that theme grabbing some pussy, but it’d have required a major photoshoot rearrangement, and the women said no to that.

WWTH:

The #MeToo movement is Time’s person of the year instead of Trump!

Credit where it’s due, though: the pussy-grabber-in-chief paved the way for this.

but sadly I never received any scars!

Don’t think you were missing much.

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/131211-life-hockey-goalie-sawchuk-1966.jpg

Don’t worry folks, that’s just make-up, but it represented every injury that Terry Sawchuk received to his face until that point. Man… watching clips of these guys play… how they did it, I have no idea.

Actually, in Sawchuk’s case, sadly I think I know how he coped. Poor guy.

it seems sawchuk was killed because of pressure to be “manly”. he doesn’t recognise his depression – and such does not ask for help. maybe he play so hard because of self destruction?

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