Happy New Year! I’ve spent the day so far lazing around, eating leftover pizza and listening to music. And that’s about all I’m going to do, I think.
I’ll be back at work blogging tomorrow.
In the meantime, does anyone have any especially fond memories of Tom Martin and/or Steele from the past year?
Oh, and here’s a video from an Old School New Wave band called Polyphonic Size. It was 1983. They were from Belgium.
PS: Starla, there was a chunk of that TLDR rant of mine on the last page to you. Just noticed that it got a little buried there behind me replying to something Pecunium said.
Starla: If you are 20 that is part of it. The brain doesn’t finish developing until sometime between 22-24, and this sort of reasoning is the type it masters last. I commend taking ethics (philosophy) at a community college.
And it’s not that you change your opinions quickly, it’s that the new opinions you have don’t seem any more solidly grounded than the ones you have set aside. That is, in part, a function of the medium, and in part the ways you phrase things.
If I am doing you an injustice, I am sorry.
Seconding what nat said — I was pretty goddamned stupid at 20 too, and, like nat, 20 wasn’t that long ago.
Starla? May I suggest adding phrases such as “I’ll have to think about that”, “I hadn’t considered that before” and similar indications that you’re paying attention, not just parroting back what others are saying?
@pecunium
You have nothing to apologize for, if anything your doing me a favor. You’ve encouraged me to think for myself rather than just spoonfeed me everything you know.
@cloudiah
I don’t think there is a single place on the web where commentors are 100% nice to each other 100% of the time, so here is as good as any place. I said somthing stupid and got what I deserved, the ony thing I can do now is wait for a new arguement to come up (hopefully one I am more knowledgable about) and prove that I am not a complete airhead, even though I am 20.
@argenti
You are absolutely right, I think that would avoid further misunderstandings.
@howard
I just read your comment, I’m sorry I missed it earlier. You are correct, I will try to consider things a bit more indepth before speaking next time.
So; I will toss out some of my thoughts on what’s wrong with the US system.
1: It’s retributive; as such it’s based revenge. This has been exacerbated in the past 20 years with, “victims’ rights” movements.
2: We incarcerate too many people, for too many things.
2a: We have far too many crimes for which there is little, to no, discretion in sentencing.
3: We have too many prisoners in too crowded a space.
4: We don’t have anywhere near enough for them to do, and use too few guards for oversight.
4a: We see the community at large as the customers the guards serve; this is wrong. The guards should be there to keep the prisoners from harming each other; contra Ruby.
5: There is not enough done to integrate education, socialisation, etc. into the time one spends in prison. As a result the prisoners lose all sense of connection to the larger community, which increases recidivism.
6: Prison labor exploits them to their detriment. They work, for years, and leave with pennies in their pocket, and no credit for their experience.
7: We strip them of their vote, which means they have no way to militate for themselves. They have no representation, at any level of gov’t. In some places (e.g. Florida) this is a permanent loss of representation.
8: We allow them to be discriminated against in employment, both when they are on parole, and when they have completed their sentence.
Those are the things which are wrong.
I would reduce the number of prisoners in prison. I would increase the number of lower security prisons. I would have more education; both intellectual,and vocational. I would have more psychologists, doing more with the prisoners, day to day,and I would have more work release.
Prisoners who are doing work would be paid the prevailing wage; They would have limited access to it, most would be held in escrow, and paid to them on release. Prison industries would not have the advantage of the semi-slave labor they now get to use.
No prisons for profit.
More guards, and an independent group of overseers of the guards, so that abuses are handled by people who are not guards. It will never be perfect, but right now it’s fucked up beyond belied.
Prisoners don’t lose the right to vote.
That’s a start.
@pecunium
Through in a point to get rid of solitary confinement and I’ll agree with you completely!
“I would have more psychologists”
Fix gov’n funding and they’d do it. I think I heard that complaint in every other psych course. Gov’n will pay to figure out precursors to anti social personality disorder, and to create all sorts of tests re: parole, but trying to rehabilitate criminals or actually prevent crime? Nawh, we’d rather pay to clean up the mess than prevent it (and when we discuss preventing crime, it always reeks of “crazies are dangerous”, which, of course, irks psychs, and causes them to complain to students about how fucked up the legal-psych relationship is)
Drop solitary, that shit they call a complete food that doesn’t require flatware, toss in drug courts or legalization, and we’re in business. Or, you know, not in business but justice.
Tiny note regarding your list of what’s wrong — pretty sure that 8 applies to anyone who’s been arrested. I’ve certainly had job apps ask if I’ve been arrested, which implies that guilt or innocence is moot, which is fucked up.
Another wrong thing that needs correcting in the US prison system:
Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA) standards that came out this year should apply to all facilities (including overseas facilities) overseen by other US departments, such as the DoD, DHS, etc., as well as to state prisons and local jails.
And I’m good with pecunium’s list too.
I would also try to make it easier for prisoners to get jobs once they’re out.
I don’t agree with drug courts. Forcing people to get clean rarely works, addicts really have to want it for any rehab to be successful.
“I don’t agree with drug courts. Forcing people to get clean rarely works, addicts really have to want it for any rehab to be successful.”
Offer rehab or the standard sentence? I suggested it because I’d heard they reduced recidivism rates, but I could well be mistaken.
Yes please to all of that.
I think people don’t think hard enough about why we punish criminals. They’ve just got a sense that, if you do bad things, bad things must happen to you in return, even if it doesn’t accomplish anything!
Argenti, I’m not sure even that would work. In my experience around addicts, the desire to get clean has to come from within, external forces and threats of punishment seem to do fuckall.
I’m all for legalization and treatment for those that want it. Treat the drug war as a public health problem rather than using it to destroy populations.
Fair enough, but I don’t see any harm in having a rehab option available — surely some percentage of addicts would like rehab but can’t afford it, are afraid of getting arrested, etc — might be a tiny percent, but what harm is there in making the option available?
Katz — as for why, the least unethical option is that we did it to protect the rest of us.
Argenti: I have no problem with making the option available. I just don’t think it should be used as the carrot to avoid the stick.
Hm, would merely offering it as an alternative to sentencing/fines have that effect? Would it have to be standard sentence with rehab if wanted?
In any case, I agree that treating drug crime as a public health issue makes more sense than treating it as a OMGS DRUG CRIME thing — maybe a reasonable fine waived if counseling is completed?
I’m pondering if having rehab or any punishment, even a relatively minor one, would be a carrot v. stick problem. Guess that’s a problem with offering rehab then. Though, idk, like I said to Diogenes, I’m okay with legalizing less addictive drugs, and treating the addictive ones as a medical, not legal problem (except that then runs into wtf do you do if they refuse help…guess it’d be the same problem that deinstitutionalization caused though)
Can you tell that I’m working this out on the thread? >.< sorry about that, but hellkell knows way more on the topic than I do, so I want to flesh out my musings with someone who isn’t pulling shit just om textbooks.
I’m totally for the legalization of everything. There are always going to be those who refuse help, just like there are always going to be those people who wouldn’t try a drug regardless of legality.
I’m wary of making, say, heroin, legal, but I have no real logic for that wariness, besides “it’s addictive” — well ok, so are cigarettes, they’re still legal.
Maybe legalizing everything and making rehab free/silly cheap is the way to go — if nothing else it would eliminate fear of legal consequences of seeking treatment. And as long as DUI still applies to under the influence of anything…yeah, I don’t really see any logical issues here, just those pesky gut reactions.
I’m also biased here, I enjoyed LSD and MDMA, ‘shrooms less so, but in any case it seems completely impossible to be addicted to any of them, that’d be a waste of good drugs. Legal MDMA would make me one happy camper though, hell, validating the studies suggesting it might have a medicinal use in PTSD would work for me.
On the other hand, heroin, meth, etc, scare the shit out of me and I’d never touch them. Using “drugs I’d try // liked” as the cut off line is arbitrary at best, and more like highly unethical.
So yeah, your way, and I’ll get over my hippie bias XD
Oo, oo, I like this discussion.
Now I feel dumb! I was just expounding the other day how frustrating that is – I feel giving prisoners work to do is excellent because (a) people need to be doing something and achieving something to feel worthwhile (not the best explanation but this’ll be long enough anyway) and (b) there is plenty of shit that needs to be done. BUT how to not create borderline slave labour? That suggestion right there sounds like a great start.
And not stopping them from voting. That is fucked up, man. I am still mindblown about that. There are people who would probably be all for that in NZ too, eugh.
Ditto hellkell on drugs. My parents were on all levels of drugs. I wouldn’t touch opiates with a bargepole – anything that addictive isn’t worth it, plus I have an addictive personality, plus even if it wasn’t so physically addictive, wouldn’t something that awesome make life suck comparatively anyway?? – but banning it achieves nothing but massively rich gangs.
AND marijuana being illegal is just shockingly ridiculous. And e… not particularly addictive, mild come down for most people, fuck all side effects, even when people are LOOKING for deaths from it they’re few and far between. Why the fuck is it illegal?? Then the police are constantly trying to make “herbal highs” illegal. What is wrong with you people? Idiots will find ways to hurt themselves, please don’t make fairly innocuous drugs illegal.
Yeah, and booze is certainly addictive and legal. I’m not a fan of meth, but I’d rather see addicts with a safe supply of pharmaceutical grade speed than whatever concoction of battery acid/match heads/sudafed is out there now (that goes for all drugs). I’m in favor of harm reduction.
DUI would still apply to everything.
“And e… not particularly addictive, mild come down for most people, fuck all side effects…”
Warning, there is a point to the pacifier thing, “I’m gonna grind my teeth now” can make for a sore jaw. And you may decide that a freshly painted wall is just so amazingly beautiful! (Been there, enjoyed that XD )
See, I feel like there was a trial of everything-legal-with-free-rehab and it was way cheaper than the current system, but I have nothing to back it up.
And yeah, personally I’d like to take MDMA but you can’t trust the people who make it and if I tried making my own there are far greater consequences to getting caught. And I work with opiates so a drug charge on my record would be GREAT. It’s frustrating because I don’t drink often and I’ve got really sensitive to it but I’d like to have something fun. 😛
Oo, true that about the grinding thing. I do that terribly in my sleep and have a sore jaw all the time from it. The wall thing just cracks me up. I have so many hilarious stories from my mother’s misspent youth. lol
And fuck yes, hellkell. My father was killed by a drunk driver, I am deeply unimpressed by that shit. Weed is a lot less dodgy than alcohol but that doesn’t make it a good idea!
“I’m not a fan of meth, but…”
It’d also mean no more dangerous basement/garage/kitchen/etc meth labs. So yeah, I can see the harm reduction here.
“DUI would still apply to everything.” — that’s really the only drug crime that I see as an honest to goodness crime, as it puts others at risk, so this works for me.