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Open Thread for discussion of terror attacks in Paris

Paris tonight
Paris tonight

There have been multiple terror attacks in Paris. As I write this, there are reportedly dozens dead, and hostages being held.

I hope all WHTM readers in Paris are safe, and that this nightmare doesn’t get any worse.

This is a NO TROLLS/NO MRAs thread.

301 replies on “Open Thread for discussion of terror attacks in Paris”

@DS exactly. I feel so loved here! Thank you.
@Elb Thank you. Same goes for you, dear. Hope your family is alright.
@Tricyclist
No, no, don’t cry. There has been enough crying over this. We all have to fight.

Thats why we are are here, fellow feminists. If we bleed, we use it to paint our faces, stuff our chest, and go to another battle, so everyone can feel safe to walk the street and able to trust and love again. Feminist or antifeminist, man or woman, French or Muslim. We stand. We survive.
Laid in a bed, pale and with the skin of the face falling off, but still battling. I love you all, thank you for being such a wonderful community.

Living on the East coast of the US and was woken up by the sounds of military jets flying overhead. This is about the most creeped out I’ve been since 9/11. Really sorry for all of our French friends. Americans may make fun of the French for being weak, but that’s really because we’re just super envious of how strong, stubborn, and proud the French are. The French really were, and are, our first allies.

@spacelawn — pretty sure that the date was just a coincidence. This is nothing but my hunch and conjecture, but it could be possible that this group felt that they are about to be found out (because it is my understanding that at the moment there’s enhanced dragnet for terrorist scoping going on in Europe), and they must act before they get caught, and what are the busiest times of the week, Friday and Saturday, right?

Also: http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/14/paris-terror-attacks-attackers-dead-mass-killing-live-updates

Paris attackers had French, Egyptian, Syrian passports

French newspaper Libération report that one of the terrorists at the Bataclan shooting has been confirmed as a French extremist, who was known by police.

A 51-year-old Montenegrin detained in Germany after his car was found to be laden with weaponry and explosives is being linked to the Paris plot. The man was arrested in Bavaria near the Austrian border on November 5, according to Bavarian public radio.

If that latter link is confirmed (and it is looking more and more likely, since apparently his navigation system was set with Paris as final destination), it would definitely explain why this happed on Friday, and I think we should be thankful that the asshole with guns and explosives didn’t make it to join the mess, but got caught. This could be why all of the sudden there was such furious combing for extremists earlier this week (at least the Finnish police made such a big show about it on newspapers’ front pages).

I work in Paris and I still cannot believe what happened. They were innocent people and they just wanted to spend a nice evening. Now I wonder how my sister is going to explain her kids (age 8 and 6) what happened in the city where they live. What a sad world. Well, I feel a bit better now I’ve written this. Thank you very much.

It INFURIATES me that ISIS is behind these attacks. Why? Because there are over 1million Syrian CHILDREN internally and internationally displaced by the civil war there. Those kids are already facing racism and bigotry when they and their parents seek asylum and refuge, and now a European nation had 128 dead and 180 critically wounded. That’s a terror attack with nearly as high a death toll as 9/11 in the US and is the worst carnage France has seen since world war 2. The knee jerk reaction of conservative groups in France like ‘Le Front National’ will be to say “exile all Muslims and kill any who refuse to leave.” It’s going to cause a backlash across the western world that closes doors, turns backs, hardens hearts, and deafens ears against the plight of refugees.

As such, this is a particularly cowardly attack. I pray that the men who orchestrated this heinous atrocity will be unable to sleep, that their joy will vanish from them, that they will face the same fear and uncertainty their victims (both French and Syrian) have faced, and that their names will be remembered only with a hiss and a curse. May they be exposed, that the world may condemn them.

“and that this nightmare doesn’t get any worse.”

£100 says World War III’s chances of happening have increased due to these attacks.

Thanks everyone, regarding my dad. If he ages like his father, he’ll stick around until 90, have about 6 grey hairs on his head when he dies, and the thing we’re hoping isn’t cancer is just some weird-ass, fatty, benign tumor because bodies sometimes to weird, pointless stuff.

He’s trying to stay positive, but as he told me yesterday, it is one thing to think about one’s own mortality, it is quite another to have a serious discussion about it with an oncologist. He used to look at someone who died at 72 and think “Man, too young.” Now he’s thinking 72 looks darned good (he’s 62). He’s also demanding that we not cry yet.

It is good knowing that cases of “it doesn’t look like cancer, but we’ll check to be sure” usually aren’t cancer. Thanks.
——————————————————————————————————————-

Paris, Beirut, Baghdad, and Calais. SCREW yesterday.

Yesterday, before work, phone calls from my dad, and the awful news in France and the Middle East, I walked around the corner of the building I work in to find a male ruby-throated hummingbird sipping at some of the flowering bushes in our landscaping.

I was within about three feet of it, at the closest, just watching it do its bird-ish thing. So, here:

@Chiomara

I read your doctor story. What an asshole.

It doesn’t matter if you were a lying, conniving grifter who had made up a story of being attacked whole cloth. He was professionally out of line, full stop. I’d report that [expletive deleted]. A good shaming wouldn’t go amiss either.

Some of these people are still living in a time doctors were above criticism and displayed their arrogance with no fear of consequences.

@Chiomara that is really terrible. Im reallybsad and angry to learn that. I wish I could say I was surprised but I know there are medical personnel who are abusive to patients from personal experience.
I mention medical care primarily in terms of mental health, It can be hard to find someone trustworthy in that profession tbh. What you can do is find a rape victim advocacy group that can recommend a trustworthy professional to help you. I say this from personal experience. If a medical professiomal abuses or mistreats you again you have the right to leave immediately and report them. I am a medical student and we are taught to never tolerate this sort of heinous breach of ethics. Unfortunately abusive people still will try to take advantage of vulnerable victims.
Thank you for your concern.
We are all going to survive and find our joy again.

the doctor we went to – a long time after the attack bc they were still having physical symptoms – was a female OB/GYN and she was absolutely amazing so anyone who is attacked please dont feel you cant find a Dr who will act appropriately, they are out there.

@ Chiomara – goodness that is awful – both the rape and emotional abuse, and the reaction of someone who should really and totally have known better. You have all my respect for speaking out and all my best wishes for healing.

Everyone here – what a lovely bunch you are! How much strength and positivity I get from you guys.

My lovely stepdaughter’s best mates were in Paris (for a quiet romantic weekend!) and got locked down in a cafe near the stadium overnight. They are fine but understandably shaken. They thought the police had handled it pretty well, considering the size of the area and the fact that it was not clear for a while how many attackers there were.

It’s appalling, but the strength is there…

@guest and @bvh Thank you both so much.
@Kale I intend to go into med school too…. If I only had 5 thousand dollars to start. I was accepted by one last year, but didn’t have the admission money. An American friend advised me to do some crowd funding. Maybe I post the link here to get some help from you all, if David let’s me, of course.
I’ll just open in a few months, though. I would have to expose my true name, but worth it.

@Chiomara

I don’t think you need permission to post a gofundme page or something similar. Others have done it in the past and as far as I know there’s no rule against it.

I’ll just leave it here as a mild example of the manospherian commentary (on Dalrock) related to the Paris attacks:

Easttexasfatboy says:
November 14, 2015 at 11:19 am
Dragonfly…..Masculinity will have its revenge. Do you believe feminists can spout such hatred without consequences? ISIS is very attractive to many young men. They promise revenge. They promise the chance to humiliate and kill the feminists who hate and drug them. I’m a 59 year old man who is a student of history. Feminism can’t suppress testosterone. As for violent Barbarians who behead men, women and children…….Effeminate perversions draw them out. The USA still has a warrior class, but it’s being destroyed as we speak.

Feminists have been killed out before in different cultures. Are you a student of the Bible? Think of what happened to the daughters of Jerusalem. During the siege, they had to choose between the slow death of starvation and pestilence……or going out to meet the maltreating sword. Do you understand viscerally what that means? There are many examples in history, if you wish to learn. However, a woman trying to talk a young man out of revenge in this misandric world is misguided, to say the least.

Sharia is very attractive. It basically means a huge societal reset. Abortion has filled our hands with blood. I cannot help but long for a day of stable families again.

I hope Cassie Jaye is paying attention, but I’m not holding my breath.

When I see comment like that, I have to muster my entire self control to not wish harm, despair, and death to thoses who write it.

More reasonably, I hope they will at some point see how their belief make them miserable.

The AVMF comment section on this is not as outrageous as the thing quote above, but the general sentiment is “well that’s just what happens when liberals keep letting muslims live”.

@dhag85:

Isn’t it just.

When stripped of their specific religious flavors, there is very little ideological difference between ISIS and American MRA/TRPers.

In fact, TRPers look at ISIS with admiration and not too subtle jealousy for their “guts” to put into action their own ideas about what the world should look like.

Wonder if Ms. Jaye covers this aspect in her documentary. (Yeah, no — not really wondering.)

@newbie

Very similar to how American conservatives admire Putin. They love the anti-gay laws and the macho bullshit posturing, but they can’t make the connection that they’re basically the same.

@Ohlmann:

More reasonably, I hope they will at some point see how their belief make them miserable.

Not gonna happen, I’m afraid. Would be nice, though.

@dhag85:

The AVMF comment section on this is not as outrageous as the thing quote above, but the general sentiment is “well that’s just what happens when liberals keep letting muslims live”.

Right. There are some differences between MRA and TRPers, and the two camps often clash on some issues, like equal rights for women. So to some extent, those MRA who are not into red pill are more, um, evolved.

Those on Dalrock tend to represent the Christian version of red pill, which is as bad as it sounds. They would love to institute the Sharia law in the US if they could, only with their god as its justification (because their god is better than the Muslim god somehow — don’t ask). But many secular red pillers are on that bandwagon too, finding in it an outlet for their misogyny and sexual rage.

@dhag85:

“Macho bullshit posturing” describes that crowd very well.

And that makes me correct my previous comment: these guys would love to implement a Christian equivalent of the Sharia law, but for women only. They certainly would not want any of its restrictions and responsibilities placed on themselves.

It is a glaring evidence of their violently misogynistic mindset.

I’m looking forward to Cassie Jaye’s film documenting it. /s

My facebook is so depressing. It’s literally filled with people saying things like Muslims are coming to out breed us and take over our country. It’s so fucking depressing that I am probably going to not log into FB for a while. I just had some guy tell me that because his children are brown he isn’t a racist. It makes me doubt my judgement, I need someone to tell me that Syrian refugees fleeing in boats aren’t actually coming to sponge up our welfare and blow us up. I may lose friends over this, my partner’s brother literally said it was France’s fault this happened because they allowed so many immigrants into the country. Or how we need to screen them all first to make sure they aren’t terrorists. It makes me despair

(I put this in the wrong thread, this is where it should have gone)

Am I out of line for trying to defend the 25,000 refugees we’ve promised to help? All the UN and HONY posts show families, children, real people and not faceless brown enemies. It’s like the feelz have turned on and I can’t shut the caring about those poor people off . I think I’m going to stop watching the news for a while also

No, no you’re not. They’re victims in this too.

For some help with the feels, maybe, I just had to pause to wipe kitty sneeze off my screen, and currently have indoor kitty remarking me since I smell like outdoor kitty. Who I almost got to follow me into the house! The dumb dog is still having none of this, but indoor and outdoor kitty don’t mind each other’s smell, and nearly met on Halloween (staring contest, no signs of aggression or fear from either)

Focus on a tabby and calico marking and remarking their humans, it’s a much better image.

@Canadian Nerf Herder

I do volunteer work with refugees from Syria, Somalia, Iraq and many many other places. I can confirm they are indeed people and they just want to get on with their lives. Yes, even the muslim ones.

I will focus on dueling cat smell offs!! I also just found a facebook page called STOPnanatime! and am binge reading because this 94 year old Nana is hysterically funny and adorable. If I wasn’t trapped at work with only the internet to amuse me I’d snuggle my kittens too. Thanks!

@dhag85 thank you, I hope to help in some way when they start coming here in addition to donations. I see so much crap posted online it makes me feel like I am living in an alternate reality

I try to focus on the little things. Like kittencams and games.

It’s not that I don’t care or am being petty, but if I let the enormity, the sheer evil, the sheer pigheaded *ignorance* of these wastes of human DNA fully impact me, the despair could paralyze and destroy me. Net win for the mucus of the world out there. I don’t even know where to start with all this. Not with anxiety and depression I only manage to keep in check with medications.

I don’t want paralyzation via despair. So I focus on the kittencams. And try to remind myself that while shit like Paris, the London bombings, 9/11, and Oklahoma City are flashy and noisy and draw attention, good is quiet. Good is giving someone enough money to make it through one more day, rescuing kittens and dogs, stopping one more beating, and giving safe havens of any kind from the delusional hell people like ISIL and MRAs smear all over the world like a bunch of screaming monkeys with their shit.

Good is still being able to look at a flower and still see the beauty in it.

@newbie

I hope Cassie Jaye is paying attention, but I’m not holding my breath.

One slightly less dim spot in this tragedy(I wouldn’t call it “bright”) is the Paris attacks have unceremoniously pushed Cassie Jaye out of any spotlight, overnight.

“Cassie who?” is the phrase that comes to mind. It will be weeks, if not months, before she can come close to the PR momentum and attention she was building. She can’t compete with Paris.

Let’s try a blockquote.

Ryan James Sample said:

“and that this nightmare doesn’t get any worse.”

£100 says World War III’s chances of happening have increased due to these attacks.

Actually, I’m not so certain about that. IS are making many enemies and if there’s one thing that is uniting, then it is a common enemy.

However, in general, this is basically IS trying to pick a fight they can’t win – at least not in the real world. Their intention is to get a ground invasion hitting their territories because they actually believe that this will cause the end of the world due to a prophecy.

Bananananana dakry — that was beautifully put, thank you.

For anyone in the US that needs a distraction and gets BBC America, Doctor Who starts at 9 on the east coast.

@Chiomara
A dozen fluffy kittens send you hugs and best wishes.

I’ve never had a doctor treat me that badly. The one who treated you was outrageously bad.

But when I was in college, I had a doctor at the college infirmary with a really terrible attitude: He condescended to me, he bragged to me, and he told me to check into a hospital to get tests for my (relatively minor) symptoms. Mind you, he didn’t have me admitted to a hospital. He just told me that it was something I should do. WTF? (Later, I met someone who told me that he had said the same thing to her sister.)

Anyway, I was 17 and then 18 and pretty scared to speak up for myself. But then I got the flu, and I knew that if I saw him I would only feel worse. So I went to the infirmary and spoke to a nurse. A few other nurses were working nearby.

“Would it be possible to see a different doctor?”

“Yes.”

No one gave me a dirty look. In fact, some seemed to be smiling. I had the impression that other students had dumped this doctor.

So I got a different doctor and I felt much lighter. The flu was just the flu, not the flu with a doctor’s BS on top.

It sounds as though your reaction to the rape might have included your having to process that doctor as well as the rape.

In no way am I blaming you for not asking for a different doctor, etc. I was dealing with the flu, not sexual assault. And even if a person is just dealing with the flu, yeah, that individual might not want to anger a physician.

Anyway, I saw a bunch of dogs — big and little, young and old — frolicking at the dog park today. There must have been twenty of them. They send you happy puppy hugs if you want them.

I’m sending all best wishes to everyone, along with healing kitty hugs to those who want them, especially those personally affected by tragedy.

I’m reminded of what the late Mr. Rogers, famed US TV children’s program host for many, many years, said about tragedy: “Look for the helpers.” That was what his mother told him to do during World War II when he was frightened by the news. Look for the helpers. And we can all — in some way — be helpers to others.

Bananananana dakry –

Good is still being able to look at a flower and still see the beauty in it.

(link)

Forgive me, distant wars, for bringing flowers home.
Forgive me, open wounds, for pricking my finger.
I apologize for my record of minuets to those who cry from the depths.
I apologize to those who wait in railway stations for being asleep today at five a.m.

dhag85

… but the general sentiment is “well that’s just what happens when liberals keep letting muslims live”.

Yep. That sentiment turns up in various forms on The Guardian pages. It doesn’t matter how many times, how many different ways, how many different people, say that this shit is what the poor bloody refugees are running away from.

Somehow or other that makes no impression at all.

Perhaps gunfire and bomb explosions sound different or dead/wounded people look different when it’s Boko Haram or Da’esh or whoever attacking perfectly innocent citizens in Africa or the Middle East. There seems to be some obtuse, oblivious streak in some people that can’t or won’t recognise that the effects are much the same whoever is targeted – or not targeted, just killed or wounded or traumatised in the general chaos.

Another thought; I am atheist, it isnt a choice I made, just what I believe, but holy hell am I sick of other atheists trying to tell people that religiom is evil and not to pray today. On top of everything else.

( Also I saw something of Woody Allen’s here earlier. In case you dont know the man raped his own daughter, Can you please not post his stuff? )

@bluecatbabe Thank you. Really thank you.
@Dhag and others Well, then I will post it here when I do it :3 thank you, friends.

@Kat I am glad you found another doctor. Thing is, he WAS my other doctor. I had gone to two doctors before him, both acted so compassionate and even hugged me. But both were paid doctors, and the last one, a young woman, said I should go to a sexual and domestic violence specialized hospital, because there they would give me std prevention for free, and an abortion if needed. Those meds are expensive, so I went. Everyone was very thoughtful and compassionate, except for the doctor. There was a nurse that hugged me and cried with me. After he treated me like that, I just got afraid of being victim blamed again. As I had checked with two doctors already, I decided to not go anymore. I arrived to the hospital door twice, but didn’t have the guts.. I was 19, shy, and I went through all this completely alone. I had to walk 2 km in the rain to find an open drugstore before my parents woke up, I went to three doctors, I had strong meds that caused me really low blood pressure 24/7 for a month, had to walk to that hospital again, I had to research and decide if I should tell the police, start thinking about abortion, take care of the physical wounds, all by myself. I hadn’t even gone to the bank alone before all that. Luckily, there was no physical thing I couldn’t solve by myself. I intend to go to an ob/gyn by the beginning of next year. But I intend to do that since March *sigh*. But I will eventually get the guts.

It gives me hope after seeing so much hatred and vilification of my faith on FB to see so many people here seeing that it is not Islam or Muslims that do this thing but people who have twisted the teachings and do the very things condemned, even in warfare against soldiers, in the Qur’an. Thank you all who have shown that in the end the decent people will always shine brightest when the times are darkest.

One thing for decent people in Paris to think about. After the lone gunman siege in Sydney last December, there was a terrific response from women supporting hijab wearing women who were afraid of racist attacks on public transport.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/martin-place-siege-illridewithyou-hashtag-goes-viral-20141215-127rm1.html

I don’t know whether it’s needed in the same way in Paris as it was in Sydney, but it’s worth a try. So many people have already responded generously, taxi drivers getting people out of the city for free, other people opening their homes to those who’d been evacuated from city buildings. I’m sure it could happen if someone expresses a need.

@Argenti Aertheri

Thank you so very much. That means a lot. Mostly been getting my distractions via kittencams and maintaining my fish tanks (fellow aquarist geek). And blowing pixellated shit up. And simultaneously feeling guilty that I’m comparatively safe and knowing full well it could happen to me too, or some other wild-ass thing that could bump me off tomorrow. Maybe I get brained with a sump pump, who knows?

@Pteryxx

… Thank you. That poem… well, I don’t cry easily, not physically, but it did cause my throat to tighten and my eyes to get a little burny. It was perfect. It feels so often like I should be ashamed and guilty for enjoying the joys I know I’m lucky to have when I know so many others in the world have it so much worse, including many here. But there’s only so much guilt a person can bear before they break. Sometimes, all we can do is move forward and tune out the jackasses who rail on and on about how we should be all curing All The Things when we’re doing damn good to get out of bed and give a loved one a hug.

To paraphrase kale, anybody who says that someone’s coping strategy during this time isn’t valid because it doesn’t match their own belief system can go pound sand. You aren’t helping, assholes.

I feel terrible for the innocent Muslims out there that are being tarred with what a very small minority of (insert ableist term here) are doing to vent their own feelings of hatred and inadequacy. Christianity’s hands are hardly clean of fanatics and yet the vast majority of Christians are just doing their own thing and harming no one. The same goes for the followers of Islam. (Not that you can fuckin’ tell from current Facebook howlings. I swear every time I read comments I can feel myself become stupider the same way I do when watching most TV.)

My own religious beliefs are torn. Logic dictates that this may very well be All That There Is, hope saying “fuck you, there’s still a chance that there is something more than us, and if not, I’mma trippin’ on it anyways because the idea’s awesome and logic’s conclusion sucks ass and is boring, yo”, and reason pointing out that a lot of religious beliefs were created by a bunch of people with selfish agendas over many many years in the ultimate Drunken Telephone game.

That being said, I was raised in a liberal Christian tradition and that’s the lens through which I filter the world. And there’s something to be said for the still, small voice inside that drives one to be better and to be kinder. The voice that all the blaring noise of hate can’t quite shut up and that my religious tradition says is the voice of God. Trying the best to keep hearing for it and seeing it in the world despite all the shit trying to crowd it out, because hope keeps things alive.

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