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Open Thread for discussion of terror attacks in Paris

Paris tonight
Paris tonight

There have been multiple terror attacks in Paris. As I write this, there are reportedly dozens dead, and hostages being held.

I hope all WHTM readers in Paris are safe, and that this nightmare doesn’t get any worse.

This is a NO TROLLS/NO MRAs thread.

301 replies on “Open Thread for discussion of terror attacks in Paris”

@OoglyBoggles – re, French people feeling fear. I’m going to suggest that Europeans are not so prone to that emotion. Oh, in the heat of the moment certainly, but… I am French, I regularly go through Paris, I live in London which is known to be at risk, near a site which has been explicitly threatened. To tell you the truth, I feel anger most easily, and an increasing need to exercise self-control to make sure my anger is directed at the right places. It should really be called aggravationism, not terrorism, because there are definitely people whose anger will be ill-directed. No matter, it’s just as dangerous, or more so.

I also feel a large amount of ‘here we go again’. You know my parents grew up sleeping in bomb shelters right? And large parts of my own life have been marked by significant terrorist risk, from one source or another. If we have ever been safe, it’s been for brief periods.

My sympathies go out to the people in France. What a horrible destruction of life.

Of course the local right-wing xenophobes are wringing their hands about refugees.

As for the rest – it has to focus on cold blood and civism. French society should arm itself with the courage to not give an inch to the killers, and has to show vigilance and the undying will to face the horror with the force of the law and solidarity.

French values in a nutshell – Laurent Joffrin in La Liberation. Not a good translation. By cold blood he means keeping a cool head. Civisme is acting in accordance with the requirements of civic duty.

@Anfenwick
I never knew, but I’m glad at least you and your folk are safe. And you’re right it is aggravationism, specifically against immigrants.

@Kale:

Why? What could they possibly think they will gain? The main result besides death and pain and fear will probably be an increase in military action against extremists like Isis and unfortunately it will probably cause harm to the peaceful Muslim refugees.

That’s actually part of why. They want any ‘peaceful Muslim refugees’ to have nowhere else to turn but them, so they work to make sure that nobody else will dare have them by actively stirring up the hatred.

It’s pretty common for some of these wannabe state types, which ISIS/ISIL/Daesh definitely qualifies as. Big strong men kicking over as many wasps’ nests as they can so that everybody else will have to rely on them for protection. They want a state of panic on their OWN side even more than on their opponents’ side, because that’s how they retain power.

Okay, awareness of how I sound kind of like some immature kid here or something, but fuck it.

First, just hoping things don’t get worse.
Second…*sigh* I’m honestly wondering whether the human race has anything to offer anymore. I know it sounds really immature, but I don’t care right now.

My thoughts are with Parisians, and also with the victims of last night’s Beirut terror attacks. Las night’s attacks were every bit as savage and barbaric as tonight’s, but they’re easy to miss in America. The media carefully avoided calling them “terrorist,” and referred to the target as a “Hezbollah stronghold,” instead of a civilian neighborhood being bombed by ISIS murderers, because the attacks happened to Muslims. Now that Paris is in the news, we’ll forget about them, when our sympathies should be with the victims of both these atrocities.

I’m in no way trying to downplay the awfulness of the Paris attacks — they’re horrifying to the point where I can’t even process them — but the things we notice and the things we don’t show the relative importance we place on different places, and the lives of people who live there. They affect the policy choices our societies make, and those policy choices can cause or contribute to further atrocities.

Those of us in the West, and in America and Britain in particular, played a major role in the rise of ISIS by not preventing our countries from radically destabilizing Iraq, and indirectly, the rest of the Middle East. We can’t look away from the suffering that continues to cause, and only notice the murder of Europeans.

What bothers me the most is how the refugees are going to get blamed for this, even though t is much easier to trafficate the necessary equiment by any other means. Those people ran away from that. even if the guilty ones came with them, they did that, they CAME WITH THEM. they were not all of them.

@hedin

It’s pretty amazing. I barely even knew about the Lebanon attack until earlier this evening. Had no idea it was so bad. It’s disgusting the way certain events are downplayed in the media.

Perhaps the tendency to blame the refugees will subside once the identity of the attackers is revealed. I’m expecting the usual disaffected young men, probably French by birth, but I could be wrong.

The Daesh had been making a lot of noise in recent months about how much they hate the French. Considering the successes that France had in Mali, compared with the failures of Britain and America, this makes a certain kind of nightmarish sense: France is the enemy they most fear and so most want to intimidate away.

My thoughts and best wishes go to all the survivors and all those who lost family or friends in the attack.

(Earlier tonight I was in a discussion elsewhere on the web where someone said that this was the fault of Europeans for having insufficient balls. I was very pissed off at that.)

Migrants are now fucked. So are we all, really.

The governments of Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, and other like-minded parties will play this to the hilt. And a lot, a lot of people susceptible to conservative propaganda will eat it up all over the continent.

This might yet kill Europe, but not in the way Daesh expected. Or maybe they did.

It’s quite possible that it was intended as an action against refugees. Daesh has stated that they despise them. After all, it’s blasphemy not to want to live in the God-ordained paradise on Earth they’ve created.

I apologize for the blunt tone. I’m shaken and hopeless. It will not be all right.

My prayers and thoughts to the people of France.

@dhag85

Yeah. I don’t think I’d have even heard of it if i hadn’t happened to catch a few minutes of Pacifica radio. It’s hard, because there are so many awful things happening at any given moment. It’s easy to steer good, compassionate people (and everyone else) just by choosing what to discuss, and how to frame it. I don’t even think it’s intentional (well, at least not completely so) — just subtle biases and preconceptions, working on a large scale.

Donald Trump should lose his Twitter privileges. His tweet was particularly gross considering he is running for President. Disgraceful pompous ass.

Btw, thank you again David for this thread. I really needed somewhere to talk about this and Mammothers are the best.

yes. Thanks.
Also, it was confirmed. the islamic state reivindicated the attacks. they justified it as a “revenge” for what happened with Siriah

I’m just numb at this point. I just hope that France in general and Paris in particular can find a way to bounce back from this. They have survived worse in the past, so I’m quietly confident. Vive la France, vive la Republique. I hope that all the Mammotheers and their loved ones in France are well.

I should be in bed by now, but I don’t think I can manage that yet.

I’m at an utter loss for words…

I know we have some French mammothers, if you’re around please let us know if you and yours are safe!

My husband is safe and not even trapped, since shutting the borders apparently does not mean stopping trains and flights. I wonder what it does mean?

“That’s actually part of why. They want any ‘peaceful Muslim refugees’ to have nowhere else to turn but them, so they work to make sure that nobody else will dare have them by actively stirring up the hatred.”

yea I believe it, Im currently listening to a family member saying – mostly in Russian – how no one should take these immigrants, Muslims are evil, and Mexicans are too lazy to learn English and so on. I tried arguing for a while fwiw but we also have a family member in hospital and I just cant

Hello everyone,

I’m going to comment here for the first time (I’ve been reading for about a year now) because, well, I just want to get it out. This will probably be full of meaningless details and rambling and errors, but I don’t really care. I just want to write what I feel right now, even if it doesn’t make it past David, I actually am not even sure I will actually post it by the time I am finished.

So, I’m a french guy, living near Paris. Right now, it’s 1:42am here, I can’t sleep. I was watching the first few episodes of Dragon Ball Super out of nostalgia when I first heard the news. My SO was reading in bed, about to go to sleep. I didn’t want to tell her yet, until I knew more, maybe until tomorrow.
I tried to call my sister to make sure sh’s safe, as she lives a few hundred meters from the Bataclan, but she didn’t answer. I wasn’t too worried because I know that reception is very bad in her appartment. My SO came back in the room for a glass of water and asked me (well, mostly asked herself) why 2 people had asked her if she was ok, so I told her.
I was feeling visibly bad, she tried to make me feel better but was herself also pretty shaken. I tried calling my sister again, she didn’t answer but calld me back from her stationary? (not-cell) phone. She heard the police sirens, didn’t say anything about shots,and, most importantly, She’s ok.
My SO went to bed, I kissed her goodnight and nothing much has changed since then. I’m in front of my screen, watching and reading various newsfeeds, I probably shouldn’f but I can’t sleep and can’t think about anything else.

So ,that’s what happenned on my side. I feel awful, I can barely imagine walking through the streets of Paris, and thinking about all the innocent people who were killed there (at least 140 accoridng to the latest news right now) .I feel awful for the victims, I feel bad for thinking that much about the people close to me when I knew that stranges were being killed, even if I also know that that’s a normal reaction. I fear for my life and the lives of my loved ones, even more than after the January attacks, even though I tell myself that it’s a statistically very unlikely way to die. I wonder if something like this will happen again. I’m afraid about the growing influence of the french racist asshats of the far-right. I fell like I’m about to cry but I don’t know why I don’t. And now I feel bad about all these sentences starting with “I”, talking about myself when I’m pretty safe, in my flat away from the center of Paris.

One thing that made me feel slightly better was someone mentionning on twitter that the motto of the city of Paris is “Fluctuat nec mergitur”, “Tossed but not sunk”.

I feel like there’s more I’d want to say, but am having trouble thinking about it ,and That’s probably the longest thing I’ve ever written on the internet.

I jsut really want the world to be only about Lego and Star Wars right now.

Now it’s 2:22am, I’m wondering what tomorrow will look like, and I have to decide if I click the “Post comment” button.

This just came across the news here. If you are a foreign national in France, please check in with your Embassy and let them know you are safe.

Also, Facebook has added a feature that will let you mark yourself as safe. Just thought that might be helpful.

For those on here tonight, watching the news: Whatever reaction you’re having is okay, but it’s also perfectly okay to check out when you start feeling overwhelmed. Self care is a good thing and you’ll be of no good to anyone who needs you, if you’re not good to yourself first.

So, as strong as your concern and worry may be, it’s okay to listen to your body, if it’s hungry, feed it something you especially like tonight, get offline, off TV, get some rest if you’re tired, play with your cats, whatever it takes to calm yourself.

To help others be okay, you need to be okay first.

Monzach and Spacelawn? You hearing me.❤️

My boyfriend lives by the side of a refugee camp, I could hear germans saying “Wir sind das volk” through his window a few weeks ago when we were skyping , AND HE LIVES IN THE SEVENTH FLOOR.
They wanted to burn down the camp, do you think they will try to take revenge by burning or bombing it?

Newbie,
I really hope she’s okay. Chances are, she is but I know it must be scary. One of my college housemate’s parents were in the Pentagon on 9-11. They were okay because they were on the other side of the building, but it was unfortunately several hours before they were able to call their kids and check in.

Thanks for the advice, @ikeke35. I’ll try and calm down. Just feeling overwhelmed for the moment.

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