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No, women aren’t better than men. But the guys at A Voice for Men are doing their best to make it seem that way.

Putting women on pedestals: Not good feminism.

Roger Ebert recently wrote a well-intentioned but misguided faux-feminist blog post setting forth the thesis that “Women are better than men.” Here’s the gist of it, from his opening paragraph:

Women are nicer than men. There are exceptions. Most people of both sexes are probably fairly nice, given the nature of their upbringing and opportunities. But in terms of their lifelong natures, women are kinder, more empathetic, more generous. And the sooner more of them take positions of power, the better our chances as a species.

Here’s how to respond appropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of Jill at Feministe:

I love me some Roger Ebert, but this is a big piece of crap. His point basically comes down to, “Women are nurturing and wonderful and non-violent, men are competitive and want to see boobs, because Evolution.” …  Most people are capable of great kindness; most people are capable of being total assholes. The degree to which any of us displays any of these traits depends largely on circumstance and partly on individual personality and temperament. Those things are certainly influenced by gender, but our gender does not in fact hard-wire us to be nice or awful.

Here’s how to respond inappropriately to this sort of argument, courtesy of John the Other at A Voice for Men:

[Y]es, it’s another one of those articles. Men are bad, women are good, men are worse, women are better, men are the worst thing ever, and women are just the best, squee!!! …

Ebert, in his attempt to ingratiate himself to a mostly female audience has done what countless other approval seeking men have done. Simply, to metaphorically prostrate himself – declaring – look, I’m a good man, not like those other bad men, you see how I heap scorn on them and flatter you? Approve of me!…

Ebert’s male-abasing and false esteem is a tired and monotonous repetition of standard gender ideology.

Sing along with me, you all know the words!

Women are better then men!

Boom boom boom!

They do everything better than them!

Boom boom boom!

 

Ladies are generally nicer!

Quack quack quack!

Their thoughts and feelings are higher!

Quack quack quack!

 

Girls and women are smarter!

Bing! Bang! Smash!

To keep up, men must try harder!

Clang! Bang! Bash!

 

Well, there’s a thoughtful argument.

Naturally, the commenters at AVfM are happy to join in the fun.

Shrek6 trots out the old “we hunted the mammoth” argument:

[E]verything on this earth from the knickers these women wear on their fat buts, all the way through to just about every single thing they touch in their day, up to and including homes, buildings, cars, trains, rockets, and the food they stuff down their throats, has all been either invented or produced by those useless ‘less than’ human, men. What a waste of space those men are!

Yep, I can feel a man strike coming on.

If all the men and boys in this world pulled the pin and sat on their buts for a month, the world would come to a grinding halt and anarchy would reign. All the women would be seen crying, screeching at men with gnashing teeth. Then they would eventually come begging.

Yep, that day is coming to these over indulged women. That day is coming!

Andybob, meanwhile, offers this analysis of what he sees as the gender enemy:

There are four main categories of women:

1) Women who care about the men in their lives, but never make the connection that their naked misandry contributes to the misery of these men. Most of those women who whooped and cackled when RegisterHer lifer, Sharon Osborne, expressed delight when an innocent man was genitally mutilated belong in this category. They would not have cackled quite so much if someone had brutalised their sons. Other women’s sons? No problem. It has ever been thus: white feather campaign in WWI.

2) Women who may pay lip service to caring about the men in their lives, but in reality, see them in the same way they see all other men – as utility objects to be manipulated and exploited. Such women don’t think of the men in their lives at all, except when they want something from them.

3) Feminists. These range from the mild (man-hating bigots), to the radical (man-hating bigots who advocate genocide and eugenics).

4) Women MRAs. These are rare women (I’ve never seen one, even in captivity), who regard men as actual people with collective and innate value. I can count them on two hands with fingers to spare.

Men have been struggling for many decades now with nary a peep from women. There is a reason for this.

They don’t care.

Feminism has provided today’s pampered princesses with the privilege-stuffed, consequence-free Nirvana that they believe they’re entitled to. Do you really think they can be swayed with reason and logic? Have you ever tried to discuss men’s rights with women? They will show concern for some imaginary, hypothetical female from some Third World country before they give two shits about the son, brother or friend standing in front of them. …

We are in a battle against a powerful, well-financed and establishment-supported entity which has succeeded in stealing our rights in every sphere. This has been done with the silent collusion of vast numbers of women. As such, a few “derogatory remarks” are the least they deserve.

Guys, I hate to have to tell you this, but you’re sort of making it look like Ebert might have a point.

Happily, I know that you all are statistical outliers, and that your raving misogyny (while it may reflect views common amongst AVFM readers, as evidenced by the upvotes those comments got) doesn’t reflect the views of most men. Heck, even some Men’s Rights Redditors are getting sick of your bullshit.

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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

It’s just so absurd, and so constant.

“Welcome to Another Feminist Blog. Today we are having a discussion about The Hunger Games, as well as continuing yesterday’s conversation about women in the software industry.”

“But don’t you understand? No one will date me! I feel like I’d like to have sex some day, but I just can’t figure out how!”

“What does this have to do with The Hunger Games?”

“Why won’t you teach me how to get a girlfriend? WHY???!! You’re all so heartless.”

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Cassandra — I don’t think so? I couldn’t find it when I was going through this with Le John the other day at least.

indifferentsky — the sewing tips were intended as take it or leave it, just throwing it out there. If you’re going to have a shop do it, just print that image, it should be enough to create something similar. My one concern would be the lace, that stuff used to be a lot cheaper (or at least more available) than it is now — if you have someone else make it make sure they know you don’t want the $20+ bridal lace!

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

Didn’t Chris say that he lives, basically, in the middle of nowhere, AZ, not close to any roads or anything?

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m actually not surprised that a single person living in the middle of nowhere finds dating difficult. And that’s even before taking into consideration that, y’know, it’s Chris.

Chris
Chris
10 years ago

I took a break to calm down because I was working myself up too much.

Re the prostitution thing. Main reason I haven’t done it is because of the future girlfriend thing. I think about it sometimes when I feel really hopeless about ever finding someone on my own. It would be nice to do and especially if I could cuddle with her and talk to her too, I would really like that.

I have no secrets to hide from anyone right now and if I did I would feel too guilty hiding it especially if i thought it would change the way she thought of me as a person.

“And that’s even before taking into consideration that, y’know, it’s Chris.”

That’s really nice.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Chris — “…especially if i thought it would change the way she thought of me as a person.”

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” ~ Dr. Seuss

This *especially* applies to anyone you’re in a sexual relationship with. And you wouldn’t be the first person asking a sex worker to cuddle afterwards, just remember that she’s still on the clock.

Also, I really wasn’t kidding about “get thee to a psych” — seriously, do so before you end up in a terrible relationship, for your own sake. One needs to know when to leave, and I seriously doubt you’d manage that.

not-Chris — anyone find a “women are not vending machines” post? Can we petition David to sticky it??

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Oh and Chris, you aren’t going to guilt trip anyone into being nice to you, you may well guilt trip me out of it though.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

So Chris, you’re saying that you’re not actually involuntarily celibate then? You choose to be?

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

Chris, if I took a jaunt over to Love-Shy and interrupted an active thread about wanting contact with another person with something like “that’s cool and all, but can anyone give me good advice on how to get a dog?” how would I be received? Would it help if later I said “I just really want a dog, I don’t know why you guys refuse to be nice and help me?”

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

As Shadow said, just own it. There’s nothing wrong with making that choice but don’t go putting it on other people.

Chris
Chris
10 years ago

“So Chris, you’re saying that you’re not actually involuntarily celibate then? You choose to be?”

How so? Because I haven’t gone to a sex worker?

A definition from this website

http://incel.myonlineplace.org/forum/faq.php?faq=incel_about#faq_incel_about_rejecting

“Is someone still incel if they turned down someone?
Yes. Just because you aren’t willing to accept anyone who comes floating your way doesn’t mean your celibacy is suddenly voluntary.”

And I haven’t even ever turned down anyone.

jumbofish
10 years ago

You know I don’t believe a word you are saying. I think you are just saying all that because you want to whine about how no woman would ever fuck you or date you. You know you could buy a sex worker or even look online for people wanting to hookup but its not what you want so you make up some bs excuse. You do have options you just don’t want to take them so you are not “involuntarily celibate” but a whiny man who wants feminists to fix all his problems. Go whine to your mama.

GingerSnaps
GingerSnaps
10 years ago

So you’re only incel because the people you want to fuck won’t fuck you???

The fuck?

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

Yeah, I’m sorry but your whole incel thing? It’s bullshit. For exactly this reason. You’re not involuntarily celibate if you’re not taking the options you do have to have sex. Just say you’re celibate. Oh, and Viscaria my boyfriend wants a boerboel… do you think I should head over to love-shy and ask?

Chris
Chris
10 years ago

“Oh, and Viscaria my boyfriend wants a boerboel… do you think I should head over to love-shy and ask?”

Here you go

http://www.puppyfind.com/for_sale/?breed_id=176&back=%2Fbreed%2F%3Fbreed_id%3D176%26back%3D

jumbofish
10 years ago

Yes. Just because you aren’t willing to accept anyone who comes floating your way doesn’t mean your celibacy is suddenly voluntary.

Look I respect that you have standards and we all do but because you do have options but you realize that it does not make it involuntary then right?

Chris
Chris
10 years ago

“Look I respect that you have standards and we all do but because you do have options but you realize that it does not make it involuntary then right?”

Well i’ve never actually rejected anyone. I posted that in reference to the suggestion that me not visiting a prostitute meant I wasn’t Incel.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

Oh thanks Chris, I didn’t realize you were the entire love-shy forum.

jumbofish
10 years ago
Dracula
Dracula
10 years ago

You wanna talk definitions, Chris? Try this one.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/voluntary

jumbofish
10 years ago

involuntary (ɪnˈvɒləntərɪ, -trɪ)

— adj
1. carried out without one’s conscious wishes; not voluntary; unintentional
2. physiol (esp of a movement or muscle) performed or acting without conscious control

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

So you’re only incel because the people you want to fuck won’t fuck you???

The fuck?

+idk, 100 internet? that might be the best use of fuck since Boondock Saints.

And holy shit the prices on those puppies!! My ethics force me to note that the dogs at your local animal shelter would love if you’d take them home. (Yeah, I realize it was a joke, but damn are those puppies expensive)

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

@Snowy, first of all, d’awwww. Second of all, yes, Love-Shy is probably the right place to go. I mean, they’re people on the Internet, right? So they kinda have to help you. Unless they’re big mean meanies!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Shit, 6 months? I’m going to have to get my FWB to break my celibacy streak again?!

Really Chris, make friends with your hands.

Chris
Chris
10 years ago

“Really Chris, make friends with your hands.”

Well of course I do that every single day lol.

GingerSnaps
GingerSnaps
10 years ago

Bwahahahahah, ALL the internets! *rubs hands together maliciously*

I just… ugh. There;s a difference between wanting to have sex with someone, and wanting to have sex with only specific people, and saying you’re involuntarily celibate because *specific* people won’t fuck me is just… ugh.

Like, if Brad Pitt* won’t fuck me, and I won’t fuck anyone else, I get to be involuntarily celibate???

*I use Brad Pitt because apparently he is the shining beacon of masculinity. I would prefer to use Alan Rickman or maybe Liam Neeson here, but there’s not a lady equivalent of sexy NOT SUPER HAWT people. So.

/analogy

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