anti-Semitism literal nazis lying liars racism

Is Paul Craig Roberts on LSD or am I?

Paul Craig Roberts: Tripping balls?

So I started reading this column by Paul Craig Roberts explaining why “white privilege and white racism are hoaxes” and I began to feel a little woozy. Roberts’ leaps of logic were so strange and vertiginous I began to halfway wonder if someone had put something in my drink. Or in his.

More likely in his. The other inhabitants of my apartment don’t have opposable thumbs (they’re cats), so I don’t think they slipped me a mickey. No, the discombobulation I’m feeling right now must be coming from Robert’s article.

Let’s just go through it line by line and see if it affects you in the same way it affected me. Like so many far-right figures before him, he begins with a reference to The Matrix:

As part of the false reality that The Matrix has created for us, white people are privileged because of their skin.  Allegedly, this privilege creates in white people the impression that they are superior to all others, and this makes them racists.

Not so much “allegedly”; that’s how it actually happens.

This dogma has become immune to all evidence.  For example, when Americans elected Obama, who regards himself as black, President of the United States and then re-elected him, it passed unnoticed that these events disproved that the white majority is racist.  

Wait, what?

How does Obama’s election prove whites aren’t racist? Most white voters voted against Obama. And more than a few spread the rumor that he wasn’t even born in the US. Then there was the Tea Party and well, I think you’ve probably got the idea.

And what’s that bit about Obama “regarding” himself as black?

I have often wondered why Obama, who is half white and half black, chose to be regarded as a black person.  This decision cost him “white privilege.”  

What “decision?” What “choice?” The way race has historically worked in the US is that mixed black and white people are considered black. This isn’t something that Obama could have just overturned by declaring himself white. Had he done so, people wouldn’t have started recognizing him as white; they’d have dismissed him as a crank.

Obviously, Obama, a politician accustomed to considering what most improved his chances, decided that the advantage was in being black, not in being white.

Gosh, I guess it was lucky for him that he was black, according to America’s unwritten laws of race.

Now do you see why Roberts’ argument made me feel like I was taking crazy pills?

Obama is not the only mixed race person of note who decided being black was advantageous to being white.  Lewis Hamilton is also half white, half black, and he also has chosen to be black rather than white.

Lewis Hamilton — in case, like me, you never heard of him before — is a Formula One racecar driver. This is what he looks like:

In our racial regime, people who look like this are considered black; they do not have the choice to identify as white.

Roberts points out that the black Hamilton makes more money from racing than his white team partner does. Of course, that might just be because, as Roberts acknowledges, he’s the better driver of the two. Then Roberts hedges this a little bit by noting that he’s also got the best car.

Why does Hamilton, who is 50% white and 50% black, identify as a black if there is white privilege?  

If white people were racists, why do the white British Formula One fans cheer Hamilton so sincerely and delight in his wins?

Maybe because the racists in Formula One fandom are a little shy about being overtly racist in real life and would prefer to send Hamilton racist messages anonymsously online?

In other words, all this white racism stuff is poppycock. Go watch a deep South football or basketball game. 85-90% of the players are black, and the white fans cheer them wildly. How does this reconcile with white racism?

I don’t know, dude, how do you reconcile your argument with what happened to Colin Kaepernick after he took a knee during the national anthem?

Dear readers, if you’re already feeling a bit seasick because of Roberts’ weird lurches from topic to topic, brace yourselves because he’s about to make a big swerve.

You are not allowed to say so, but the same holds for National Socialist Germany according to documented facts presented in his histories by David Irving. The national socialists went through extensive debates as to how much of a Jew one had to be to be a Jew.  Whatever the decision, Irving reports that there were 150,000 half or quarter Jews serving as officers in the Wehrmacht.

How do we reconcile this fact with the holocaust?  We can’t, because no one is allowed to investigate or offer an opinion.  The holocaust is unchallengeable. Europeans and Canadians who challenge it go to prison.

First off, David Irving is a holocaust denier who’s been found in court to have lied about history (in a libel case he brought against a critic and lost). Nothing he writes can be assumed to be true.

Second off, fuck you.

But it doesn’t really matter because Roberts quickly moves on to what he sees as the upcoming END OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION.

The situation in which the Western world lives is one in which reality is based on suppositions and ideological assertions, not on facts.  

I’m not sure it’s your ideological opponents who are the ones light on facts.

Facts have become irrelevant in the Western world.   Having rejected facts, Western civilization, which is based on facts, has repudiated itself.  

It is this self-repudiation that signals the dissolution of Western civilization. 

Well, it was fun while it lasted, huh?

Having already suggested that the Holocaust was a myth, Roberts might as well finish off his article with a reference to one of the top five most racist books of the 20th century. So he does.

As Jean Raspail made clear in 1973 in The Camp of the Saints, European Civilization only exists in its monuments.  

What on earth does this even mean? What does it have to do with anything else you’ve been writing about? Are you really and literally high?

In the United States, allegedly a Christian country, no Christian symbols are permitted on public display at Easter and Christmas.

What are you talking about? You can publicly display all the Christmas or Easter crap you want to, just not on government property (and even there you can get away with it lot of the time.)

Also, the US is not “allegedly a Christian country.” It’s allegedly a country with separation between church amd state. Have you ever looked at the Constitution?

There is no such thing as a living civilization whose roots are dug up and cast away.

Whatever the fuck that means.

This was truly the worst LSD trip I’ve ever been on, minus the LSD.

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38 replies on “Is Paul Craig Roberts on LSD or am I?”

David Irving is a holocaust denier who’s been found in court to have lied about history 

I got to see some of that case. It was very educational from an advocacy point of view. Irving was a very clever, confident, and articulate man. But it was almost classic hubris to seem him crumble under what I can only describe as a forensic dissection.

The full judgment in the case is here. Well worth a read.

There’s a simple explanation: he is consciously and knowingly lying, lying, lying.

It what these.. THINGS posing as human beings… do. Probably, that’s the only thing at all that they do.

They know that it’s all lies, but they’re only addressing twisted, sick un-humans like themselves, who being absolute liars as well instantly and fervently confirm the lies as the truth-of-the-moment (subject to revision into its own opposite literally instantly.

When I go to my racist, dumb-ass, lazy and corrupt Republican congressman’s FB page, there are huge numbers there with FB pages lauding American flags and guns and fat, ugly, embarrassed losers who know only one thing; they are “white”.

It’s all they think they have, they are dumb enough to pretend (not one of them actually believes it, quite obviously). Though they are clearly as human as myself, they’d rather pretend to be something special, chosen by White Republican Jesus to live lives where they are betrayed and belittled at every turn.

If they weren’t so absolutely dangerous, to others as well as themselves, I’d only feel pity for them.

I’d still help them in a pinch, as I would any human being, but they might as well be described as completely feral now, interested only in seeing all others harmed, before them and more than they are.

Fuck “America” today. It has to be allowed to fucking die. These people have no hope as long as they live this conscious lie.

Roberts’ argument about “choosing” to be white or black in this culture can be found as an illustration for the word “disingenuous” in the dictionary.

Also? He can go fuck himself.

Never heard of him. He known for anything other than being a weasel and a fool?


Er, is this a site that does fatphobia?

Depending on what you mean by “fatphobia” the term is lipophobia, cacomorphobia, or fat shaming. Just saying.

And unless the character of the site has changed in the past few years and I somehow failed to notice, the answer is no. But apparently the attitude of “they are all irredeemably evil” is tolerated here, an attitude which I am not comfortable with. Much of my volunteer advocacy is helping those who have fallen into evil to redeem themselves. Maybe some form of selection bias/effect colors my views, but I don’t believe everyone is hopeless, and we shouldn’t casually write off entire groups of people.

Depending on what you mean by “fatphobia” the term is lipophobia, cacomorphobia, or fat shaming. Just saying.

Fat activists tend to use the term fatphobia, fyi. If you’re going to police language, at least look up the words you’re correcting people for using.

And no, fatphobia doesn’t fly here but you’ll get a lot of pushback from certain people when you call it out, so it’s not exactly safe here, either. Just like most progressive spaces, really.

There is no good reason for judging people as people by their bodies. Vile ideas and vile behaviors come in all kinds of people and it’s the vileness that should be called out. I pay a LOT of attention to bodies (my own, my partners’ and prospective partners) but that has to do with attraction and sexual desire and my art but not who people are as humans. Entitled Gross Creep in the other thread is what he is because of his not seeing this. (And if he sees this comment remembers that only tall, ripped men are in my stable and is unhappy about that I’m glad).

The main thing is to confront awfulness as awfulness where it is. Body-shaming doesn’t strengthen your case and will end helping not confronting injustice and awfulness.


Fat activists tend to use the term fatphobia, fyi.

Really? I thought that they mostly used the term “fat shaming”. I admit that I don’t usually intersect with those circles, so I might have experienced an atypical sample. Regardless, checking seems to show that this term does see some genuine use and not “casting about for a term” use, so I withdraw that bit of pedantry.

Would someone care to give a TL;DR of the article about The Camp of the Saints? NYT’s got it paywalled and I’m on mobile so I don’t know if I can work around it.

Lipophobia would be the term if one want a correct ancient greek term. Whether it’s the most used isn’t a question I can answer tho. Lipophobia would be preferred in french mostly because we have institution that try to drill us in correct ancien greek terms and not hybrid, but english have no such institutions.

And for the original point that sparked the discussion : 1Q84 is indeed saying vile shit here. Wrong shit too, because outside of the [insert your term of choice about body shaming], it also show that 1Q84 have wrong assumptions about white nationalists.

The stereotype of white nationalist as a 50something out of shape guy is born out of the fact it’s a very easy target to mock. But it’s not quite accurate, and plenty of them are young, well in shape, or both. A number of them are in the police or army, which have minimum standard of general muscles. Some are handsome too, and a lot of them are married because turn out that being vile isn’t quite the same as not being charismatic.

But the one who are a bit older and/or a bit less good looking are simultaneously easier to spot, easier to mock, and less of an apparent threat. And that’s how we have post like 1Q84 one.

@Ohlmann, in case you wondered, the french word for fatphobia is “grossophobie” (source: am french), I have never heard nor read the word “lipophobie” yet.



fat, ugly, embarrassed losers

Maybe don’t.

Trying to use someone’s body as an insult just tells me it’s a shorthand for you, especially when there’s so much to insult them for that’s both more obvious and more caustic.


Vile ideas and vile behaviors come in all kinds of people and it’s the vileness that should be called out

Exactly so!

It’s kinda like Blair White – (In my opinion) she pretends to hold values incompatible with her own survival for the purpose of making money regardless of the damage this does to other trans people. That is what makes her bad – not the fact that she’s trans, and a woman she remains no matter what she does.

There is no such thing as a living civilization whose roots are dug up and cast away.

This sentence is glorious. I could try to interpret its meaning in context, but as David pointed out the context is so inconsistent and wild that I can’t rely on it to provide even a best-faith guess.

On the one hand this is comparing civilization to a giant plant or tree but on the other hand the terms are undefined so there’s no way to tell what the “roots” are in this metaphor or what the trunk is, the leaves, etc. Civilization as a term is also rather nebulous itself.

And all of this is completely ignoring that the comparison is, even under the best-case interpretation, simply wrong. Trees are unlike “civilizations” in many ways but one of the most crucial is this: Trees are singular entities with a birth & a death no matter how old they become. When a tree dies, all elements of it die.

“Civilizations” are not so. Society, “civilization”, group chats, are not living entities in their own right – they’re organizations of convenience constructed by the people within them, people who can easily and in many cases happily move on if that organization stops being considered valid by the people within it. This is a historical fact, proven in and of itself beyond any possible doubt.

Because societies are systems of organization, they are also remarkably flexible. “Bedrock principles” of a society can be thrown out and changed within the week if a sufficient number of folks in that society agree that they should be. If there is a civilization “whose roots are dug up and cast away” this has happened because the people for whom that civilization is a system of organization have agreed as a whole, explicitly or implicitly, that these roots are unneeded and new ones have been put in their place.

Because this agreement has been made, they are right – the society will carry on with new bedrock and everything may be different but it will still make sense for the people within that society.

Why does Hamilton, who is 50% white and 50% black, identify as a black if there is white privilege? 

I bet he also scratches his head over why LGBT+ people choose their “lifestyle”, and concludes that they’re only doing it for the free toasters and woke cookies. Therefore homophobia and racism don’t exist, which allows people like him to have terrible opinions and do appalling things without the slightest twinge of guilt.

It’s not an LSD trip so much as right-wing Calvinball. If you play by their rules you will never, ever win.

@jsrtheta: “Not very bright” is an understatement. Roberts makes Ernest P. Worrell look like a Nobel Prize candidate.

Not LSD, methamphetamine … dude’s a tweaker

Seriously, and speakin’ from experience, no acidhead ever came up with something that convoluted. That’s way too complicated for anyone who doesn’t sit up all night grinding their teeth.

I was pretty active in the fat-o-sphere (yes, that’s what we called ourselves) back in the day and “fat phobia” was the preferred reference there. I really miss it; it was positive and very intertwined with feminism.

Me, too! I wonder if we met back then. Bo odea what ‘nym I used back then lol.

Just to clarify, fatphobia and fat shaming aren’t the same thing. Fat shaming is only part of fatphobia. There’s a lot more to it and it’s a very complex topic. But I’m not really going to get into it here because, as I mentioned before, this space isn’t very safe and my mental health isn’t great right now so I don’t need someone coming in here to “but health!” at me.

Obama gave a whole speech about how he is just as much a white man as he is a black man, but when the world see’s him they only see the black man part.

From what I can tell, Mr. Roberts is attempting to argue that unless every single white person is racist, racism doesn’t exist. And that, likewise, if white folks ever falter in their racism by rooting for a POC in any endeavor, racism does nit exist. Of course, this argument is so weak as to be completely invalid, so he uses a lot of confusing language to obfuscate what he is doing. It likely would have been a better read if he had just dropped acid and wrote about something.

I’m so glad other people took up the flag for me with 1Q84 and I didn’t have to. Not been feeling well, so I just let the troll go in the other thread, didn’t really want to have to say something here either. Thanks Lou, kupo, et al. I can’t muster arguments right now but I can muster appreciation!

I read the Roberts article and had the same reaction: Does he really think people like Obama and Hamilton could choose to be white?
But I’m also concerned about the “un-human” screed posted by IQ84. Categorizing your opponents as sub- or non-humans is never acceptable. It has historically been used against BIPOC, immigrants, Jews, Muslims, gender non-conforming…really anyone who can be “othered.”

There is no such thing as a living civilization whose roots are dug up and cast away.

When one plants a garden full of healthy & beneficial plants, you also get destructive weeds that grow & kill them off. Every wise gardener knows the best way keep your garden healthy, is to dig those weeds out BY THE ROOTS & CAST THEM AWAY. (Don’t even put them on your compost pile – they may take root & continue to grow!)
Racism is the most poisonous & destructive weed in the garden of human society. It was planted in the soil of American democracy by the decision to treat an entire race of humans as slaves based solely on race, and to enable the economic prosperity of the wealthier classes of people. In order to justify treating a race of people as farm animals, the “Great Lie of the Inferiority of the Negro Race” had to be created. Laws may have made slavery illegal, but the “Great Lie” has lived on in too many hearts for the last 175 years.

How can white people be racist if they cheer for black sports stars and entertainers? JFHC.

I mean, this guy is writing at a middle-school level and using obviously debunked nonsense because he’s writing to the lowest-common-denominator; abject racists.

@Ten Bears: Might also be cocaine*, but I bow to your expertise. I don’t even like the way caffeine makes me feel, so I’ve never done uppers. I guess “his people” are more likely to do meth.**

But yeah. Not LSD, definitely stimulants.

*Powder, not crack, because he’s a Nazi, duh.

**Nazis were big on amphetamines.

I’m really not comfortable with language that dehumanizes these people and reduces them to sub-humans.

They’re NOT sub-human. They ARE us. I was like that once! My dad is a lifelong Republican, a MAGAhead, a pro-Jan-6er (nonattending), a dyed-in-the-wool Dittohead and his dad hosted an early chapter of the John Birch Society in his own home for meetings. Rumor has it one of my uncles was in the KKK. Mom is a perfectly submissive Christian woman. I was horrified to learn that about 6 generations ago, the family owned at least one household slave, who was a lady that did for the family what most “middle class” non-plantation folks liked having slaves for… cooking, raising the family kids, and household chores – as per the “Mammie” stereotype. I have no idea what her name was or whether I have any Black relatives, and no idea how to find out. EVERYTHING in my family makeup was in perfect place to raise me as yet another one of Those People in That Tradition, and I WAS…. but I got some perspective and I’ve been agnostic and slid leftward gradually since about 2004, landing on “hard left” (by American standards, so more like center-leftish) about 8 years ago. (Which is why I’m not very comfortable in my parents’ home, naturally.)

It’s critical to remember these people are human for proper perspective, and, importantly, HUMILITY. We have the same weak spots in our own psyche, and it’d be foolhardy to think we’re somehow superior and can’t be brainwashed or persuaded as easily as they can. If you’re white, and somehow not one of these people, the difference between you and them is some mixture of upbringing and life experience that amounts to chance, basically. There, but for the grace of whatever power I might hold dear, or even sheer dumb luck, go I.

I’m not saying they’re not lying intentionally – people can justify to themselves all kinds of horrible things… racism, greed beyond measure, corruption, mass murder, terrorism, insurrection… especially the ones that have a higher power they can conveniently credit with the same desires, preferences, likes and dislikes they have – but they are, most certainly, human… albeit paranoid and preoccupied with their own self-centered and myopic worldview.

I realize absolutely none of his arguments are in good faith, but it seems he believes unless every white person is a neo-nazi or a Klan member racism doesn’t exist. He has no room for implicit or systemic racism. Unless we fight to tear racism out by the root it will never be any better than it is today.

No one goes to jail in Canada for Holocaust denial. Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel was detained on a security certificate in 2003 for being a foreign national considered dangerous to national security. The validity of such security certificates is an obvious question, but Zundel wasn’t actually convicted of a crime. He was detained because he never obtained Canadian citizenship, and at the time of his detention had been gone from Canada long enough for his landed immigrant status to expire. The risk to national security assessment was made based on his connections to groups like the Aryan Nations and Neonazis like Christian Worch. Zundel was eventually deported to Germany.

Apparently Roberts has never heard of the concept of passing, where a person looks sufficiently white that their mixed heritage isn’t obvious. They are assumed to be white by those who encounter them, and hence avoid racism directed at those who aren’t white.

Kupo – That nym doesn’t ring any bells, unfortunately. I used to go by Twincats then (I think I did here for a while, too.) I spent most of my online time over at Shapely Prose. If you were there too, you know it was a huge commentariat, at least as large as Pharyngula was back then, with comment threads in the thousands not terribly uncommon.

Well, that was an exercise in incoherence. Basically, Roberts started by affirming several false premises, then got further away from reality the longer he continued writing. As for his point about Lewis Hamilton: many white racists have no problem enjoying the work of black athletes or entertainers — until they express opinions that racists don’t like.

Yes, (idiomatically only), fuck him.

Beside all your excellent points about racing and football fandom, consider that Romans cheered for gladiators. More generally, most racism has not been as eliminationist as the Nazis, who spoke among themselves at the highest level of how unfortunate it was that the Mischlings had too many Aryan relatives who might raise a stink, so that they would have to put-off murdering them (or, in an earlier draught, sending them to Madagascar) until after the war were won.

In any event, most racists have been just fine with members of inferior races’ existing strictly within their places. Some even will go so far as to insist that such may in fact be superior at inferior pursuits….

I came 2 this… i don’t know what to call it. It’s not commentary, analysis, opinion. It’s certainly not intelligent in any way. Let’s call it a piece of writing. I’ll start again.

I came 2 this piece of writing via a friend’s suggestion and it was clearly for a laugh. Who in their right mind spends time and money having a blog to clip parts of someone else’s work and swear every so often?

Bubby, mensa material you ain’t, more like a dog howling at the moon. Don’t quit ur day job.

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