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Stop what you're doing, and GO READ THE BUZZFEED EXPOSE OF A VOICE FOR MEN'S PAUL ELAM. (SPOILER: He's even worse than you think)

Paul Elam quite literally in the middle of explaining how the media treats him so unfairly.
Paul Elam complaining that the media treats him like the terrible person he is.

If you’re a regular, or semi-regular, or even just an occasional reader of this blog, you need to stop reading this post right now and read Buzzfeed’s astonishing expose of A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam instead.

SPOILER ALERT: He’s an even bigger hypocrite than you think he is.

Here’s the link. Right here. Click on it now. Click. Now. Click.

If you need a bit more convincing: Buzzfeed’s long and meticulous examination of alleged “men’s human rights” activist Elam, written by Adam Serwer and Katie Baker, delves deep into Paul’s often sordid personal history, including his drug use, his numerous failed marriages, and the alternately depressing and infuriating story of the daughter he abandoned, who forgave and reunited with him as an adult, and who is now estranged from him again.

As Serwer and Baker make clear, the story of Elam’s life makes many of his most fervent claims about alleged female irresponsibility and the evils of the family court system seem a tad, well, ironic. As the two note, Elam.

preaches the gospel that men’s failures and disappointments are not due to personal shortcomings or lapsed responsibility, but rather institutionalized feminism and a family court system rigged against dutiful fathers, as well as a world gripped by “misandry,” or the hatred of men.

But his own story, to put it as gently as possible, does not exactly support this particular narrative. Serwer and Baker note that

interviews with Elam’s ex-wives and daughter and newly uncovered court records shed light on a man who, they told BuzzFeed News, has depended on and emotionally abused the women in his own life.

For example, although Elam compares the family court system’s treatment of fathers to Jim Crow, he abandoned his biological children not once but twice. Although Elam says that “fathers are forced to pay child support like it was mafia protection money,” he accused his first wife of lying about being raped so he could relinquish his parental rights and avoid paying child support.

His ex-wife [Susan] and his daughter said he has only been able to make A Voice for Men his full-time job because of the women who have supported him throughout his life. …

“He sits there taking all these people’s money and all he’s doing is sucking them dry,” said Susan. “That’s what he’s done all his life — to say it’s the woman’s fault, and not make men look at their own mistakes.”

Seriously, go read it. Here’s the link again.

We’ll talk more when you’re done.

258 replies on “Stop what you're doing, and GO READ THE BUZZFEED EXPOSE OF A VOICE FOR MEN'S PAUL ELAM. (SPOILER: He's even worse than you think)”

I honestly can’t think of a scenario in which it’s moral to use physical force to make a 13 year old take a pill. Whether he was making a smart choice in refusing to take it is pretty much irrelevant. When you get to the point where you’re holding someone down to force-feed them something that isn’t going to literally save their life, you need to re-think your choices. That’s abuse in itself, spoon or no spoon.

As for this piece, I think it’s fair. He makes a lot of claims about the functioning of family courts and about the culture surrounding divorce, child-care, and abandonment in America. This is basically a case-study fact-check that shows it doesn’t always work the way Mr. Elam says it does. Many MRAs appeal to personal observations and experience to justify their positions. I believe Mr Elam does this fairly, although sometimes citing the experiences of his patients and followers rather than his own. It’s still relevant to see if his own story backs up his opinions.

She started an entire philosophical school and has millions of readers and admirers the world over.

So did L Ron Hubbard.

She had to leave her country of birth because the people in charge were at the start of what became one of the bloodiest genocides in human history, all to rectify, yes that phrase, class priveledge.

What’s that got to do with the price of tea in China? Having suffered doesn’t magically make her right.

Moving on…

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/mens-rights-activist-paul-elam-i-dont-think-men-are-oppressed/

I really can’t wait to see how his loyal dupes are reacting to these articles. It’s almost enough to make me want to read the comments at AVFM…

Orion, since you were the first Orion, you could make that your title:

The Orion
The First Orion
Orion, Hunter-Gatherer of Literature (if you have to write a lot of papers)
Orion the Onion (if you really like alliteration/internal rhymes)
…I could go all day.

I’m hopeful/not too concerned about his ex-wife and daughter being doxxed following this, because there’d be no plausible deniability as to who allowed the information to leak.

I’d be more worried about his goon squad than Elam himself.

Emily: that’s what I’m more worried about too. I don’t think Elam would be dumb enough to doxx and harass his own family but someone else might be.

Elam says that his ex wife wouldn’t let him take a paternity test and basically blames the whole fiasco on it, but would it have made a damn difference if he was proven to be the father? Would he have actually parented Bonnie and if so, did she dodge a bullet?

Reblogged this on Zarathustra the Serpent and commented:
“I don’t know how to respond to this article. It mostly fills me with deep sympathy towards the women that Elam’s exploited or abused over the years, but also pity for Elam himself. He’s even more pathetic than I could have imagined, and he lashes out with so much hate that it drives away those that were somehow capable of loving him. It’s just sad.”
-WithAZ

Considering he hit his grandson for opening the damned fridge, yeah, I’d say she dodged a bullet. And good for her for not letting him get away with that!

Even considering how long I’ve been around here, that was enlightening. For a man who rants about how many responsibilities men have, he sure has walked away from a lot of them. Fuck, he basically got his ever so desired “paper abortion”.

Paul Elam has not just said horrible things about women in general but has picked on individuel women and caused them real distress and even fear for their own safety. I have no qualms about this article whatsoever.

Thanks to David we’ve known what a fraud Elam is for a long time and I suspect a lot of his readers have known too but have been in some sort of denial about it. However, I don’t know how even his most ardent supporters could donate their own money to him after reading the article* and I don’t know how Elam could have the bare faced cheek to demand that they do.*

Could this be the beginning of the end for AVFM!
* I don’t know how they could but I suspect alot of them still will. (loved to be proved wrong)

** unfortunately Elam has bare faced cheek in bucket loads.

At first, I thought it was a bit cruel to involve Susan and Bonnie, even if it was voluntary on their side. While reading the article I felt like it was touching too many sensitive nerves and that I didn’t have the right to know those private things.

I know, it all served to the point of exposing Elam as the hypocrite (and scammer) he is, but that can also be done by exposing and debunking his harmful, dangerous, poisonous, disgusting, and obviously misogynistic “arguments” one by one (such as We Hunted The Mammoth does).

I still think it wasn’t necessary. I don’t know… maybe I’m being silly or naïve, but I still feel like I did something wrong by reading certain parts of that article.

I totally despise Elam, but it still made me terribly uncomfortable.

On the other hand, I just read his response and… he only confirms everything we already knew about him. Just blames everyone in the world, not a hint of self-awareness and responsibility. Disgusting PoS.

And I still don’t feel any better about knowing private things about him, Bonnie and Susan.

On the bright side, his own response exposes him for what he is.

I don’t know what the exact translation to this metaphoric saying is exactly like in English, but I’ll try: “From the mouth shall the fish die, for what comes out from its mouth, proceeds from its heart”.

I fear that the MRA horde might retaliate against Susan and Bonnie. I hope that doesn’t happen. From the comments on his public denial (sorry, “response”) it seems like a lot of them are happy to throw money at him and stand by every horrible thing he says and does, no matter the evidence in front of them.

Being born in the mid 50’s, I grew up in a much different world than we live in today. My father was career military, serving faithfully through two wars and bearing the scars to prove it. My mother served as well, being an army wife and raising three boys. She earned a masters degree with honors after, and only after, that job was done.

My youth, of course, was rocked by the late 60’s and early 70’s, as was the rest of the country. I came to question and suspect, as did most everyone my age, everything my parents stood for. It took some time to figure out that my father wasn’t the guy that got us into Viet-Nam, he was just a soldier doing his job. I also figured out my mother wasn’t a domestic slave, just a woman who put her family first.

Yeah, Paulie, good for you. I just love that smug dig of “after, and only after” — it makes it sound like women who don’t wait till the kids are out of the house before completing their educations are somehow bad mothers, or at least worse mothers than yours. Instead of being proud of her for getting a master’s, though, you sound pretty damn snide about the whole idea of mothers doing that at all. If that were my mother, I’d feel a bit guilty at having held up her educational and career aspirations, and also mighty proud of her for finally doing what she obviously wanted to do all along. I wouldn’t dream of making an antifeminist sermon out of it, though, as you’re clearly doing.

I also love the gratuitous slams in the second paragraph. When did a pacifist ever claim that ordinary soldiers “got us into Viet-Nam”? None ever did! Whether civilian or GI, all antiwar activists blamed the White House and the big brass at the Pentagon, not the common soldiers who went to fight. Anyone who claims otherwise has been watching too many fuckin’ Rambo movies.

And what’s with that “domestic slave” bit? If feminists who used to be unhappy housewives refer to themselves by that term, how the hell is it demeaning to others who are perfectly content to Hausfrau away? My own mother is a housewife, although in the early years of her marriage to my dad, she did help out in getting the family business going, and I was often babysat by my grandma, or the teenage daughters of my parents’ friends. I do not consider myself a deprived child for not having my mother near me at all times in my early years. And I don’t think that describing enforced housewifery as “domestic slavery” is demeaning to women in that role, either; to do so is to criticize the institution, not its victims.

But then, such distinctions are all lost on Paulie, who thinks it’s misandry and a sign of male subservience to be made to take medication to stop him pooping his pants at 13. Oh, the HUMANITY.

Which is honestly why this makes me so uncomfortable. Yes, Elam and his followers do things like this; Elam and his followers are fucking terrible people. Yes, turnabout is fair play, but playing fair with the likes of Elam only serves to bring you down to his level. It’s not going to make him or his followers any better, and it only serves to fuel their victim complex.

Which is ultimately why I think I view this article with more than a little bit of disgust. It does show insight into the man he was and how he got to where he is, but the price of understanding Elam in this way is having to become a little more like him in tactics and willingness to crawl in the muck to drag an opponent’s legs out from under them.

Something smells like bad faith in here.

Seriously, BuzzFeed interviewing his ex-wives and daughter isn’t even in the same universe as Elam making up bold-faced lies about and doxxing everybody who looks at him sideways.

Elam says that his ex wife wouldn’t let him take a paternity test and basically blames the whole fiasco on it, but would it have made a damn difference if he was proven to be the father? Would he have actually parented Bonnie and if so, did she dodge a bullet?

I’m highly suspicious of that “wouldn’t let him” bit. He’s a grown man, he can damn well take a test if he wants. But he didn’t want to, and that speaks volumes. He was looking for excuses to up and leave, and he did.

And yeah, I’d say Bonnie dodged a very big bullet by having him out of her life while she was growing up. Can you imagine being raised by a mean bastard like that? A BIG mean bastard like that? Yikes.

@Delphi Ote:

Made this comment earlier, but I think it got eaten somehow. I had experiences very similar to yours. It might be good for us to talk and share. Hit me up on Twitter if you feel so inclined.

Nah, that was just in the other thread (attention buzzfeed readers). I left you a response there.

I can see why some people are uncomfortable with this article, and it is very personal, but I don’t think it’s at all over the line, because it’s all so directly relevant — and contradictory — to the stuff he constantly talks about. If I were considering supporting AVFM as an institution, this is stuff I’d want to know.

And in terms of shaping public opinion, we need articles like this because they’re much more effective ways to communicate than dry facts and figures. Saying “the guy who claims that women lie about paternity to get child support lied about paternity to avoid child support” is a much more effective way to expose his claims as bogus than saying “studies show that fewer than 1% of child support cases involve false paternity.”

Yes… and it is clear he has had genuine problems, but instead of trying to actually tease out what is behind them (from what I’d guess, authoritarian/abusive child-rearing, economic woes, severe personal issues) he goes after women. Because women are a soft target, and maybe if we didn’t have so many rights the women he has abandoned wouldn’t have been able to do so well without him.

I had no problems with that article. I don’t really see how asking family members about their personal relationships with Paul Elam is in any way equivalent to doxxing or mudslinging. Just because his past happens to be so full of mud doesn’t mean that was the sole purpose of the article.

I think it was a useful article, it filled out the picture of who this guy was and what has shaped his toxic ideological worldview that he’s so forcefully trying to push onto everyone else. It was all relevant to what he thinks are important issues (custody, rape, fatherhood, etc.). I didn’t see any evidence in there of just mudslinging for the sake of tarring his good name.

Also I didn’t find the part about him “crying like a baby” to be shaming. That was one sentence I read where I was like, oh he has feelings? Interesting . . .

The dumbass arguments under the article are all worth it for the person who called it “not so much a hit piece as a ‘why are you hitting yourself’ piece.” Gotta love Esmay for getting on there to complain that the reporter only let Elam cuss at him for 20 minutes before giving up.

Agreeing with those here who say this article is fundamentally different than Elam’s campaigns of doxxing and harassment. Elam makes shit up about people and/or radically misrepresents things, and uses whatever he finds or concocts or simply thinks is true as fodder for harassment campaigns led by his own little army of assholes. Many of these people are not by any stretch of the imagination public figures. He went after one woman because she was caught on film at a demonstration (doing nothing but standing there) and because she make a joke tweet. “Big Red” has been harassed and mocked and threatened and turned into an internet meme because she yelled at Dan Perrins once at a demonstration and was caught on video. He went after another woman because he thought she wrote a blog bragging about trashing college applicatons from white dudes, even though it was obvious even to other MRAs that the woman had nothing to do with it. He’s malicious, vindictive, has no regard for the truth — and he has an army of assholes to do his harassing for him.

Also thinking that the “cried like a baby” detail in the story is almost the only humanizing detail of anything I’ve ever read by or about him.

I have to admit I also felt a bit uneasy with the article—I am 100% more comfortable with letting Elam make his own self look bad by continuing to say disingenuous, hateful, malicious things. He frequently contradicts himself, insults enemies and allies alike, issues threats, and overall does things that no traumatic background in the world could absolve him from. And of all the possible outlets to go digging for more info, Buzzfeed is—er—not the most reputable of them. I felt like the piece wouldn’t accomplish much besides put Bonnie and Susan (and probably the women who refused to comment, too) straight in the line of fire of doxx-happy MRAs. If Buzzfeed could find them, then so can 8chan.

HOWEVER…

While I still question the wisdom of the article, it is night-and-day different than Elam’s own harassment campaigns, or the Zoe Post, or other doxxing and dirt-digging campaigns. It didn’t require any MSPaint red circle infographics to draw imaginary connections between people and events. It doesn’t speculate on the particulars of Elam’s mental/emotional state, declare him to have a hidden agenda that nobody could have guessed from his words, or issue an urgent call that “this man must be stopped”. It doesn’t state that it is trying to scare or shame Elam into silence. It doesn’t call him evil. It actually brings multiple accounts to its story, drawing most heavily from the most sympathetic one, rather than hinging on the accusations of one embittered enemy. It involved no account hacking, spying, or other underhanded tactics; just interviews and publicly available information.

And—most crucially—they actually contacted Elam to get his side of the story. And it’s not Buzzfeed’s problem that he chose to swear at them rather than coolly declining to comment.

Additionally, Elam’s own history of divorce and child custody is actually relevant to his—uh, “activism”. It’s not like the ridiculous GG stuff of, “Oooooh, LW had relationship drama while also being a game developer.” It’s, “Um, guys, this dude doesn’t have a good track record on the thing he’s actually arguing about.”

Re: crying like a baby – I can’t think of a time I’ve heard the term used in a derogatory way, especially not when it applied to a scenario when one would reasonably be expected to cry (reunions / sad movies / overwhelming gifts / etc.). I’ve used the term of myself without any sense of embarrassment, personally.

I have zero sympathy for this man. He is a two faced, hypocritical bastard of the highest order and is living the high life with other people’s money. Surely after reading that article they will think twice about sending him their hard earned cash? He should also come clean about the conference security farce as well. I also find it repulsive that he could blame his ex wife for her own rape. What a nasty, horrible person he is. I hope he goes bankrupt and is in the poor house because only then would he have to get a real job and do a decent day’s bloody work.

He has leeched off women all his life. If I were a MGTOW or a MRM supporter I would be absolutely pissed off at how hypocritical he is. The only good thing about it all is that he will be seething/furious/angry/incandescent with rage that his daughter and ex wife spoke about their time with him. The narcissist in him will never cope with the fact that so many people will read that article and see for themselves what a fucking, embarrassing loser piece of shit he really is. Rant over.

Ah, but the interesting part is how much the Men’s Rights Bowel Movement is suddenly claiming that, in spite of Elam being the generally accepted MRAsshole Messiah, that now he’s “fringe.”

Which he wasn’t, like, last week.

I seriously used to not understand why MRAssholes had such fits about this site which literally just records what they’re saying and then offers a somewhat pithy take on the MRA mindset. But the objection I’d seen from MRAs who talk at me (since God knows this ain’t a dialogue when I don’t get a word in edgewise) is that this site literally records what they say. Given how fast the lies change when they’re caught in one, I understand their fear a little better now.

For the record, I neither validate nor co-sign MRAsshole fears, as literally no MRA has any connection to reality given that the MRBM’s theology is just to double down on patriarchy as hard as possible rather than bother to inspect how patriarchy harms almost all women and quite a few men too, so these fears are entirely detached from credibility. I’m just saying I get why they refuse to take their medicine and panic about a site that records their actual words and deeds. A hate group that expects to lie, hide, and change its story at will is probably going to be terrified, and MRAssholes, now that your hate is being brought into the light, you should be terrified.

Just like the Klan, which is all the MRBM really is in new clothes anyways, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Ah, but the interesting part is how much the Men’s Rights Bowel Movement is suddenly claiming that, in spite of Elam being the generally accepted MRAsshole Messiah, that now he’s “fringe.”

Heh, I noticed that in the BuzzFeed comments. Crap like this:

Let me point out that this is the public face of men’s rights — as anointed by the mainstream media.

The “Mainstream media.” Not, y’know, Aptronym himself and all of his rageaholic cronies at every possible opportunity since the beginning of his hate site. Nope. What are you talking about? Totally a media conspiracy.

@fakecisgirl & M. the Social Justice Ranger:

Oh, do I ever want to see Elam’s reaction to this.

See, Paul, these are the people you’ve attracted with your hate-mongering, your abusive language and your toxic personality. They may celebrate and support you when things are calm and good, but when the public gets wind of your disgusting ways, your buddies will drop you faster than a sack of hot potatoes.

There is something deliciously ironic about the ease with which some MRAs will throw their former heroes under the bus when things get rough, but I just can’t place it. If “no honor among bigots” is not a turn of phrase, it needs to be.

Well, except Woody, of course. His dedication to “Paulie” is almost adorable.

@Anarchronist Esmay and Bloomfield are usually the first to announce their support, I reckon they’ll stick around until Paulie is charged with something illegal. Then they’ll flee, and deny him three times.

So, I don’t want to read Elam’s rebuttal, but does he address any of the records that the piece mentions? I mean, the Buzzed is not just interviews with wife #1 and daughter, but it often says “according to records”. There are police and court records.

You can always play “he said, she said” with people’s statements, but when there are official documents, it’s a little tougher to play innocent.

I know a guy with a similar backstory to Paul Elam. I hope he doesn’t find MRA movement because he is not very bright and has a tendency to blame women for his problems already.

He got a woman pregnant very soon after meeting, when they were both 18. They were ridiculously naive and poor and they moved in with her parents and later some friends. Before she was 6 months pregnant, she left him.

None of his friends liked her, said she was a fat, hideous, stupid monstrous cr*zy chick. That has been the narrative ever since. And that she cheated on him all the time so probably that kid wasn’t even his blah blah blah. I never met her, so I have no comment on her personally. But she left him, moved across the country and when her baby was born, she put another man’s name on the birth certificate.

This guy did not pay child support. He met the child once, briefly, when ze was about 1 year old. By the time ze was 4, the mother had left the man she had been living with and began the process of suing for child support. This required a paternity test – possibly because it was across state lines and he was not on the birth certificate. He was proven to be the father.

He then started talking about counter suing for custody. He was married and had a house, and claimed that meant he would be a better parent. He planned on seeking sole custody and said he even planned on changing his kid’s name. I was mortified, having a 4 year old of my own, that he even thought this reaction was okay. There was no evidence of abuse or neglect, he just wanted custody because he felt it was owed him. Now that the child was HIS.

That didn’t work, so he complained mightily about the unfair cost of child support, that he can’t possible afford (how could he possibly afford sole custody then you ask?) and signed away paternal rights in exchange for a one time payment (I think he paid 2500). His kid was 6 by this time and he told zir via skype that he was zir dad but wasn’t going to be in zir’s life.

Again, I have no idea what that would feel like, but my heart breaks a bit thinking about it, because I have a child that age.

The one way this guy diverges from Elam is that he does not drink or use any drugs (I think weed would do him some good tbh). And he hasn’t (yet) stumbled into full on MRA territory, just garden variety misogyny. I imagine a lot of men in the movement have similar backstories.

Sorry for the teal deer! Like many of us, I really hate shitty people who make shitty excuses for their shitty behavior.

So if AVFM is fringe now, who’s left who isn’t fringe?

Errrrrr…nobody? Yeah, I’ll go with NOBODY. The whole movement was always fringe, and always extremist, and always ridiculous, to boot. That anyone could take it seriously is beyond belief. How far up one’s own ass does one have to be…?

And I have no problem with the “cried like a baby” bit; that was the one time he didn’t come off as a total asshole in the entire piece. No problems, either, with the reporter getting Susan and Bonnie’s stories. That’s just journalism! After all, it behooves the world to know what kind of man he really is behind all the blather, and they were willing to talk, albeit under protected identities. If all Paulie had to refute them was 20 minutes of cussing on the phone, and a pissy AVFMorons piece that I can’t wait to see dissected here, well…too bad for him. He had his chance to either set the record straight or say “no comment”. He chose to dig his hole deeper, and that speaks volumes.

As does the fact that at least one other previous Mrs. Paulie was too afraid to talk about him at all, and just wanted to forget she ever knew him.

Let’s remember that Bonnie and Susan consented to the interview. Bonnie especially, seems to have spoken with them at length. Perhaps they really wanted to tell their stories and thought it was important. I think it’s a bit concern trolly to act like they are victims of Buzzfeed. I’m sure they’re capable of thinking for themselves.

I really don’t see why this piece made so many people uncomfortable. It’s not flattering to Elam, but journalism isn’t meant to be nice. It’s there to tell the truth. A man who purposely made up a cult of personality around himself and is presenting himself as a victim of the evil matriarchy to get donations he can live on is fair game. People need to know the truth. Most of his fans are probably too far gone to be effected by this, but if a troubled young man is thinking about joining the MRM and this article is one of the top Google hits, he’ll probably be turned off it. That’s a good thing.

We complain when media outlets don’t do their homework and give MRAs undeserved credit for being advocates rather than a hate group. Then, when a well known media outlet does put out a well researched expose of one of the leaders of the movement, that’s bad too? What do people want?

Count me in with the people who don’t understand what’s so terrible about this piece. This is nothing like the shit Elam and his cronies pull. Elam or his close ones are not being doxxed. Nobody is making up false quotes attributed to Elam. His own words are being quoted. He’s showing his own ass all the time, there’s nothing different about any of the things he’s quoted saying. Everything he is described having done is consisted with what we know about him. The testimonials show consistency regarding his personality.

At worst, this is giving unflattering but true details about a man who makes a living promoting hate and violence against women and revealing him as the hypocrite and abusive personality he is. At best, this is giving unflattering but true details about a man who makes a living promoting hate and violence against women and revealing him as the hypocrite and abusive personality he is.

@sunnysombrera

True. JB and Esmay have probably invested way too much to abandon Elam just yet. But just like with #GamerGate, the trolls and harassers hiding behind anonymity (a large majority of them, I’d gather) are always ready to abandon the actual faces of the movement when things get tough, all in the name of upholding plausible deniability. “Owning up your shit” doesn’t apply to bigots.

The article is fair, well-reasoned and level-headed… but of course the comments have an infestation of MRA types saying it’s MISANDRY! What a surprise…

I also don’t really have a problem with the article, and that the “crying like a baby” bit only served to briefly humanise him.

Re: Crying like a baby

I would still be offended by a phrase meaning “crying pitifully”, as I would be offended by having any reaction of mine being described as “pitiful”. However, seeing as to how pretty much everyone else here view the phrase differently, its obviously something specific to me/my environment.

Re: forcing a 13 year old to take medicine is abusive.

I disagree. It may be stupid and overbearing parenting, or on the other hand, maybe he actually really physically needed those meds as going without would have led to health consequences. Health and safety are the two areas where natural consequences *are not* appropriate.

Regardless I don’t think that I would use “my mother physically forced me to take medicine as a child” as my great example of abusive motherhood. Regardless of whether or not she was acting appropriately, Elam’s mother wasn’t forcing the meds down his throat for her *own* health.

Re: Mrex. Making your children to take their meds is not abuse, sure.

Having their siblings hold them down and hitting them with a spoon? That sounds a lot more like abuse.

Re: M the Social Justice Ranger

Bad faith? Bad faith is what wells up in me when I see that kind of comment. Go fuck yourself.

Salty,
We get a lot of trolls here. You started commenting here by complaining about mean it is to harshly criticize Paul Elam. Perhaps you are here in good faith, but defending Paul Elam and saying “go fuck yourself” to a regular is bound to raise some hackles.

This is a blog for mocking misogyny and anyone who has a problem with that isn’t likely to get along well with the rest of us.

I think it’s a bit concern trolly to act like they are victims of Buzzfeed.

Did someone actually do that, or are you addressing those of us who are concerned for their safety following the interview?

I have to admit I more or less skimmed the comments that looked concern-trolly. And yet they still managed to make me feel defensive, apparently. Sorry.

I respect all of you who feel uncomfortable about the piece–you’re probably better humans than I–but I don’t think it crossed a line. If it was, like, very personal details about his sex life or bad mouthing from all his ex girlfriends I could understand, but things like his wife and children’s stories and actual public records of failure to pay child support are pretty much par for the course in journalism as far as public figures go.

And as others have said, it’s not a one-sided hit piece. They asked for his side of the story. He cussed them out.

RE: child abuse–I’m of the mind that his account is too vague to say if his mother was being abusive or not as “hit with a spoon” could run the gamut from absolutely physical abuse to a smack on the hand to her defending herself from his violence (I almost always trust people when they say they’ve been abused, but it’s worth noting that the point of that anecdote wasn’t that his mother was abusive–he brought that up to show what a “rebel” he was.)

RE: child abuse–I’m of the mind that his account is too vague to say if his mother was being abusive or not as “hit with a spoon” could run the gamut from absolutely physical abuse to a smack on the hand to her defending herself from his violence (I almost always trust people when they say they’ve been abused, but it’s worth noting that the point of that anecdote wasn’t that his mother was abusive–he brought that up to show what a “rebel” he was.)

Same here. Given that the source of that story is none other than Paulie himself, who’s to say he didn’t just make it up out of whole cloth in order to (a) burnish his “rebel” image, as you say, and (b) to make his mother look like an abusive matriarch and his father a deferential, henpecked wuss (an image clearly at odds with his military background and portrayals elsewhere as an abusive domestic tyrant)? I wouldn’t put it past him to invent such a tale, and to do so with intent to deceive. It wouldn’t be the first time he’s bullshat a mass audience. I’d like to hear from his siblings to find out if that incident really happened. And are his parents still alive? If so, I also would like to hear from them.

So Paul Elam’s red pill moment, the great injustice he suffered at the hands of feminism, turning him into a dissenter and a rebel and setting him on the path to becoming a leader of the MRM was his mother trying to make him take his diarrhea medicine.

I find it weirdly poetic that Elam’s start of darkness was someone trying to force him to take something that would help him. Admittedly in an unpleasant, abusive way though.

William Buckley certainly wasn’t very nice to [Ayn Rand]. Idiotess? She started an entire philosophical school and has millions of readers and admirers the world over.

To call Rand a philosopher is one hell of a stretch. Also if having millions of followers worldwide is a sign of wisdom I can’t wait for the deep, meaningful insights PewDiePie will bestow upon the world.

Personally I doubt the incident was completely made up. I wouldn’t put it past him to embellish parts but I’m sure the medicine thing was real. I mean, if I were going to completely make up a story to portray myself as a brave rebel fighting the tyrannical matriarchy, refusing to take diarrhea medicine when I was *13* would…not be what I would come up with.

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