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Men’s Rights Redditor explains the mate choice process of the human female, and also why she won’t pay for dinner

Stick-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.
Stuck-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.

So over in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the fellas are doing their best to address the burning Men’s Right issue of “date inequality,” or, as one recent poster put the question,“Hey feminists. How come men are still expected to pay for dates?”

I’m pretty sure that feminists aren’t the ones expecting men to pay for dates, so I’m not sure why feminists should be held to account for something they’re not doing, but in any case, the Men’s Rightsers don’t seem much interested in hearing explanations from feminists. No, they’re rather offer their own theories.

Enter a new convert to Men’s Rightsism called MrKocha, who enlists the aid of SCIENCE to offer his own explanation of this terrible date injustice:

I see a lot of problems with every day inequality between the sexes in mate interaction in various areas.

Attention, human female. Initiating mate interaction protocol.

First being, the average female has vastly different motivations in her mate selection. How much is nature vs nurture is up for debate, but I tend towards believing millions of years of evolution probably have left a significant mark there.

Huh. What are the odds that these millions of years of evolution just happen to line up with whatever regressive assertions about women — sorry, females — this dude is about to make?

Anyway her mate choice process often involves looking for signs of genetic fitness in male (attractive appearance, displayed dominance socially or physically, risk taking, higher social status), and weighing this against his ability to invest in her long term future: such as pay her dinner/bills). Paying for dinner displays two things: one a willingness to self sacrifice for women, and two the financial resources to continue to do so.

Let’s see. Human beings for the majority of their existence on this planet were hunters and gatherers. Even if we assume that men mainly did the hunting and women mainly did the gathering, the gathered food made up the bulk of the diet. So really, men on dates should expect women to bring them large salads in return for the carcass of a small mammal.

The second part of the problem is women also have a significantly stronger in group bias, to the point where considering points of view don’t immediately benefit females is actively more difficult.

Uh, I think you accidentally the sentence there.

The process of asking women to merely consider in the name of equality, whether there are social solutions to reduce inequalities between the sexes in mate selection scenarios commonly triggers a strong negative emotional response, that her ‘turf’ is under attack and whoever presents such a question is a threat.

Really? Lots of women have no fucking problem whatsoever with paying for dinner.

How women deal with this varies tremendously. Some experience a great deal of cognitive dissonance, denial, and explain away inequalities with whatever rationalization provides the most reassuring emotional responses.

Wait, are we talking about women or about MRAs now?

Some project their outgroup hatred upon whoever voices the opinion by attacking the individual with petty, poorly thought out attacks on their character.

He must be talking about MRAs, right?

Others, immediately jump miles past the idea of social equality being a noble (if potentially impossible goal), to the issue of consent, making accusations that somehow even considering the idea of more equality in gender relations is an attempt to violate consent of female mate choice? (MY CHOICE! DISCUSSION IS RAPEFUL!)

Um, how did we get from talking about dinner to talking about rape? Is he really suggesting that women have literally accused him of rape because he suggested they pay for their own dinner?

And finally, there do seem to a minority of women who are able to consider the issue rationally, even if it admittedly, challenges her immediate self interests and might be harder than other subjects to think about?

Wow, some women — albeit a minority — somehow manage not to be spiteful, narcissistic children! What a generous assessment of half the human race.

How to tackle the issue, when women potentially have 4 times the amount of in group preference, reinforced by feminist doctrine and a potential biological preference towards the behavior?

How is “getting dudes to pay for dinner” part of feminist doctrine exactly? I’m pretty sure The Rules isn’t a feminist manifesto.

All I can say is to continue to challenge any social doctrine that reinforces in group bias of women and praise women when they display the ability to think outside the spectrum of their immediate self interest even if ultimately there isn’t much other benefit to you?

Who’s a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of her immediate self-interest? You’re a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of your immediate self-interest!

Always try to keep in mind, that the negative responses, are basically a reflection of why the question is a valid one in the first place.

Exactly. Whenever women recoil in horror at some astoundingly misogynistic thing you’ve said, that just means you’re totally right!

In a followup comment, MrKocha returns to the notion that women love throwing around rape accusations, not only at men who argue with them about paying for dinner but at “sexually inexperienced men” generally. It’s bad enough that women aren’t attracted to these men, he argues, but

the amount of shame, condescension and hostility thrown their way is quite impressive.

It can range anywhere from rape accusations to golden ones like “I hope you never find someone and stay alone forever!”

Fun fact: each and every man on the planet earth, no matter how sexually experienced, was once a virgin. Somehow most of them managed to garner themselves a certain amount of sexual experience without being accused of rape and/or having women express the opinion that they should remain alone forever.

Assuming that McKocha is speaking from experience here, and assuming also (because I’m already disturbed enough by his comments) that the bit about the rape accusations is internet hyperbole, what exactly is causing all these women to get so angry at him?

I don’t think it’s the sexual inexperience. I think that maybe, possibly, it might be the fact that he obviously hates women?

Just a wild guess.

MrKocha started up a whole thread of his own to further discuss his scientific hypotheses about the human female and her mate choices. It’s called Females Oppressing Female Mate Choice. Because these evil females who put down sexually inexperienced men are also oppressing females who might choose to mate with these men!

Thanks to AgainstMensRights for clueing me in to the wonderfulness of MrKocha — here and here.

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cloudiah
8 years ago

And of course everyone knows that once a person starts posting cat-related jokes, pictures, and videos on Twitter, that’s the first sign that you’re about to be attacked by a horde of feminists who will tear you limb from limb (with boxcutters, natch).

Seranvali
Seranvali
8 years ago

Ally said:

“Thanks, David. That person was really starting to creep me out. His posts disturbed me because they reminded me of certain bullies I’ve encountered. I’m only speaking for myself here, but I was honestly hurt by his words, especially when he saying shit about karmic retribution.”

Yes, he was giving me those vibes too. I’m about 90% sure he was one of the the trolls who gave me hell when I was sick. There are very, very few people towards whom I feel actively vindictive but they’re right at the top of my list!

Ally S
8 years ago

diz was one of the few trolls here who actually hurt my feelings. I’m going through a lot of shit these days – the last thing I need to be told is that I deserve all of it for being a terrible person. He was a shit troll in many ways, but his words managed to dig deep.

Seranvali
Seranvali
8 years ago

Thanks for banning the creep, David.

Seranvali
Seranvali
8 years ago

Ally,

I’m sorry he managed to hurt you. He really was a nasty piece of work.

I have lots of hugs over here with your name on them if you’d like them.

Ally S
8 years ago

Thanks, Seranvali. I’m trying to get over it, but it’s hard because I feel very soft and weak these days. And I bet that asshole is reading these comments to his “amusement.” What the hell is wrong with these people?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Don’t forget that while most of us were off doing stuff with our friends and families if we’re US based (or just doing whatever we normally do mid-week if not), this guy was spending his holiday obsessing over the fact that he was apparently rejected by the community here at some point, and trying to hurt people as payback. That’s pretty pathetic.

TL;dr – however shitty things may be right now, don’t forget that you’re all infinitely more awesome people than he is.

gillyrosebee
8 years ago

Go easy on yourself, Ally. You aren’t ‘weak’ though you are in a vulnerable place at the moment. I personally find it much easier to dismiss jerkwads like there because they are at least upfront about the fact that they aren’t ideologically committed to their positions, they are just in it for the ‘lulz’, taking out some lack in their own lives (empathy? basic humanity?) or flaw in their personality on others. They are pathetic, barely worth contempt.

Fundamentally, people like diz are predators of a type, but they are also basically cowards. They target people who are vulnerable in fairly well understood ways and go after them in a manner that ensures the most possibility to inflict psychological harm with the least potential risk to themselves.

All the hugs you want are yours for the taking.

vaiyt
8 years ago

diz now has a shiny Banned by Man Boobz honor badge to display at the Assholosphere.

Ally S
8 years ago

Thanks, gillyrosebee. The last time I was was bullied online was when I was 16, and it was just as awful. There was this one user on this message board who was lamenting his recent rejection by a crush he had online, and I felt bad for him, so we exchanged IM info and started chatting with each other. I tried my best to console him about that rejection, and it seemed that he genuinely enjoyed talking to me. And then one day he told me that he was lying about that rejection all along “for the lulz” and started calling me gullible, an idiot, a “f*ggot”, etc. because I believed him (even though I had no way of telling that he was lying). That alone was enough to punch a hole in my self-esteem, which was already pretty low at the time.

Ally S
8 years ago

He thought it was hilarious to hurt my feelings because I was too trusting and gullible, I guess.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I guess trolling is what people who kick puppies as children graduate to when they discover the internet.

gillyrosebee
8 years ago

I’m sorry someone did that to you, Ally. Sadly, for every person who uses the internet to connect with people and build friendships, there seems to be at least one chucklehead who just wants to be vile to others.

lana
lana
8 years ago

Ally,

Caring about people is not a weakness its strength. It takes guts .Especially if you have been burned.

There is a scripture I like to try and remember and practice .

Matt 10:16

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Its something to at least aim for . ((((HUGS)))))

sparky
sparky
8 years ago

Well, that was creepy. I mean, diz was obviously a pathetic little booger, but that level of open and casual malice is unsettling. Shorter diz: “I’d be happy if bad things happen to you! Am I triggering you? Yay!”

I don’t understand how some people can think this way.

For anyone hurt by the booger’s word vomit:


http://animalshugging.tumblr.com/

kittehserf
8 years ago

Ally, what everyone else said.

Seranvali
Seranvali
8 years ago

Ally, after all you’ve been through and survived with your compassion and ability to love not only intact but growing you must be a very strong person indeed. Those qualities are incredibly important and admirable. They’re the hallmark of strength, not being weak or soft.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Dedicating a holiday to trying to make people upset because they previously rejected your nuggets of wannabe wisdom, otoh? That’s a sign of weakness. And if you sockpuppet to do it, like this guy did, it’s a sign of cowardice too.

Bina
8 years ago

For everyone who needs it, a strong dose of anti-troll serum:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEyCJqVPusk&w=560&h=315]

Ally S
8 years ago

You guys are very sweet. Thank you. I’m over it now, fortunately – it seems that I’m getting better at coping and moving past things like this.

pecunium
8 years ago

Ally: I’m sorry that person was a shit to you, and I’m sorry diz is a shit. hugs.

Styrofoamboots
Styrofoamboots
8 years ago

What is such a noted anthropologist doing wasting his time on a link sharing website? He should be sharing his vast knowledge with a wider audience!

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