By David Futrelle
Well, here’s a new one, or at least a new variation on an old theme: According to one prolific commenter on Incels dot co, women are responsible for turning men into pedophiles — sorry, ephebophiles — because only underage girls are into weird, incel-looking guys. The proof? The incel making this absurd argument has a 14-year-old female cousin who thinks Adam Driver is hot.
“[T]here exists a whole class of men who cannot attract women their own age as they enter their 20s, yet they remain attractive to girls between the ages of 13-17,” Rassimov wrote in a post on Incels dot co today,
Why? Because they aren’t quite truecel, yet they never develop into traditionally handsome men “real women” crave for. Their youthful looks become a curse when it comes to attracting women past their rebellious teen phases.
His evidence? An informal survey with a sample size of two.
My two female cousins are perfect examples of this transition of preferences; the older one who is almost 19 likes masculine types with buzzed hair, the younger one is 14 and thinks Kylo Ren is the pinnacle of male aesthetics, the older one considers him plain ugly.
Yeah, it’s not as if any adult women are into Adam Driver or Benedict Cumberbatch or any number of other male celebrities who don’t look like the male models with perfectly chiseled faces that incels are convinced that all women exclusively desire.
Rassimov is convinced that it’s only “a matter of time” before both cousins “go Chad only.” According to his logic, the only female human beings incels have a chance with are the ones who aren’t old enough to consent to sex.
Notice how younger teen girls would still have a diverse array of crushes that include “artsy” unconventional types who are skinny, pale men with narrow jaws and unique features, but by the time she’s 20 she cringes at her former crush asking herself “Eww… what was I thinking?”.
Not sure you’re accurately channeling the minds of young women here, chief.
Girls are pretty much basic-bitches by the time they enter their 20s and the only two acceptable standards becomes either; ripped Chad or dad-bod Chad.
In Rassimov’s mind, incels are basically being forced to obsess over girls as young as 13 because no one else will have them. Even if he were right about female tastes — and he’s very definitely not — it’s an appalling argument, just another way these guys are constantly trying to normalize and excuse their obsessive fixation on underage girls.
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I just want to say. I thought Tom Hiddleston was sex on beautiful long legs when I was 14. I think Tom Hiddleston is sex on legs at age 21
Adam Driver with the brain and charisma of Adam Driver is quite attractive. Adam Driver brain swapped with an incel would be repulsive and it has nothing to do with his facial features. I was about to say it would be the same for an Incel swapped with when I realised that almost all examples of famous male crushbait are kind of odd looking, and unlikely to be recognised as Chad material by incels. This is why they’re still banging on about Brad Pitt.
(Chris Hemsworth possibly, but I don’t think he could carry it off if he wasn’t a comic actor. He doesn’t get half the rabid devotion of Cumberbatch or Driver. Chris Evans, maybee?)
@Mogwitch
Maybe…it’s not about the shape of the jaw after all, but about whether someone is talented and with a good personality. Just a hunch.
Fun fact: “I don’t think adult women would bother with my creepy ass” is not, in fact, a good justification to prey on and abuse children.
Hello, I am 33 years old and I think Ron Perlman is a snack. I wouldn’t push Driver or Cumberbatch out of my bed either. Thank you and goodnight.
Never got the Adam Driver thing, but I do like Adam Scott, who is real life handsome but not Hollywood type hot and I like Chris Corner AKA IAMX who is scrawny and dresses androgynously (at least while performing).
Also, celebrity crushes aren’t actually indicative of who a person actually dates or has sex with. I had a hook up with a Christian Bale lookalike once. Other than that, none of the men I’ve been with look like movie stars. The line about how women only want Bead Pity* is complete bullshit.
*That’s how my phone decided to spell Brad Pitt and it’s funny, so it stays.
Hoo boy. Maybe (probably) I’m an outlier, but I was into dudes like Adam Driver when I was 16 and continue to be into them at 40. Also, even as fan of big-nosed, big-eyed, floppy-haired guys, I can recognize that Adam Driver is appealing to a broader audience, as a person’s attractiveness is far more than the sum of their facial features. Of course, that concept is entirely foreign to incels, who judge everybody and everything as the sum of their parts based on arbitrary desirability scores.
I always get Adam Driver mixed up with Keanu Reeves. (shrug)
Thankfully, I never get incels mixed up with guys even cringey-ass Younger Me would have thought were hot.
@Lainy:
That is because Tom Hiddleston is, in fact, sex on legs. I prefer my men older and am nearly twenty years older than he–but I would never kick him out of bed, for eating crackers or much of anything else.
@Bina
Incels probably like Keanu. He was the first one to take the red pill.
Adam Driver is indeed hot.
Also hot in my book: Tom Hiddleston. Orlando Bloom. Daniel Gildenlow. Sean Brennan. Oh, I used to think David Bowie was gorgeous, but his being a child rapist kind of ruined that forever.
Point being
a) There’s a lot of room for men to be stupidly hot without conforming to some rip-roaring manly-man concept of bodily form
b) Don’t blame women for patriarchal policing of male bodies and presentation, it’s not us setting those bullshit standards
c) Nothing ruins the effect of physical beauty quite like being a goddamn creep.
@Naglfar
groan
That would be disgustingly ironic considering he’s one one of the less creepy male actors out there, TBH.
These guys have NO idea. I don’t know if you guys would know the British tv program Poldark (it was a massive deal in the UK) but the ladies I know fancy both the chadish Ross while also holding a candle for sweet, skinny Dr Enys and weird evil George. In my early twenties my biggest crushes were Aragorn from LOTR and Tim from the Office. I now have a bad case of oneitis for my husband. Basically preferences are vast and varied and their whole worldview is utter dross.
Primarily fictional men, real women. (And enbys everywhere, but representation is weak.) That’s my pickings.
And my current obsession is a four foot three terrible tubby lad. He’s…certainly not safe, but at least he’s equal opportunity and doesn’t harbor any grudges…
@Cyborgette
Indeed. Most of the men I find most attractive are not the hyper masculine “chad” ones. I have kind of a thing for more effeminate or androgynous looking men.
@WWTH: Adam Scott all the way!!!
Jorge Garcia!!
Y’all are of course correct about the role of talent and personality in male attractiveness.
It is also indisputably true that generally speaking people who identify as straight ladies have varying, wide-ranging tastes in chad.
That being said, Monsieur Rassimov has clearly never seen Adam Driver without a shirt. He should definitely google that right now before he says any more ridiculous things.
Having not only seen Mr. Driver without most of his clothes, but up close and in person, I can attest to the fact that he is incredibly large and fit; all qualities normally attributed to chads. He’d be worth a second look even if he were boring, let alone the charming and funny person that he is.
Congratulations, y’all — been a while since I last did the laughing/dry-heaving combo.
That said, gimme skinny androgynous nerdy peeps, plz — I’m not a fan of Mr. Universe types.
@dashapants
I understand Mr. Driver was in the Marines. (Not an ex-Marine, I also am given to understand there’s no such thing as becoming an ex-Marine once you become a Marine in the first place.) That might have a large part to do with that. And it’s all useful muscle, not just for-show bodybuilder muscle, too. Not that incels probably know or care about the difference.
@Naglfar:
Thankfully, that was just a part he was playing. But how very like them to misinterpret everything about that part.
I should point out that Steve Buscemi and Danny Devito are famously “ugly” celebrities and that both of them – while not particularly lusted after – are almost universally beloved for just being very kind and charismatic people. The lack of even basic effort put into anything by self-declared incels somehow continues to astound me.
@Bina
And to willfully ignore that it was two trans sisters who made it, and that it was about their struggle to realize their inner truth, not about MRA’s self-delusion on their own importance.
Then again, willful ignorance is a lot of their shtick, and Mr. Reeves is likely a much nicer person than they’re ever capable of being.
My first major crush – Gene Wilder. I had posters of him when I was a teen. I do not know the names of these current guys. Life is good. My most recent crush? My mechanic, lol! I’m an old woman. My mechanic is old too.
What the heck is “dad-bod Chad”? I thought Chad by definition was a swole gym rat.
My male celebrity crush has long been David Wenham (although I secretly think Lucas Piazon is the most ridiculously beautiful man I’ve ever seen). I don’t think he registers anywhere on the incel/chad scale. He was at his most chadly when he bulked up for “300”, but usually he plays dorks. Explain that, incels.
I felt like answering “Nah, I’m a c++ bitch” but that would be Fake Geek Girl-ish of me. 😛
As for crushes on dude-type celebrities, insofar as I thought much about them…Teens vs. 20s! Epic Rap Battles of History, begin!
Teens: Elijah Wood as Frodo in LOTR.
20s: Kunal Nayyar as Raj in Big Bang Theory. Although it was frustrating when his character was stuck at “can’t talk to women without being drunk” or “token Asian guy.”
Both are conventionally attractive, right? But supposed to be “cute” rather than “chad”-like?
@Bananananana Dakry
That is all.
If you click on the link to incels dot co, you’ll see an ad for
“sekschats.” The mostly naked model appears to be Photoshopped to look like she’s 12 going on 30 — a look I don’t think is possible in real life. There’s an ad for these sekschats every time I look at incels dot co. And the graphic of the sad, lonely guy with his head bent and his hands in his pockets is a fixture too. Here’s a thought, incels: Maybe you could do something to change your lives for the better.
I don’t think these guys would approve of Keanu, since he was recently seen dating a grey-haired woman in her mid-forties.
@dashapants
Please do tell more. When did you have the fortune to see shirtless Adam Driver in person?
@Bina
Well, they misinterpret every other work of art, so this is right in line.
@EoI
I’m an assembly language bitch. I taught myself that one as a kid because I had far too much spare time and access to computers that were already old back then.
@Kat
But…but…but, that’s hard. And complaining on the internet is easy. /s
A serious technical question: when David links to archived pages, they are to sites with a variety of TLDs, like archive.fo, archive.is, archive.ph, etc. Why is this? Why are there so many TLDs for archiving stuff instead of just one?
I like Adam Driver just fine. It’s Kylo Ren I don’t like (in the sense that he’s not attractive. I think his arc has potential, I just don’t wanna see him as a love interest).
There’s a lot of actors I find incredibly attractive because they have an interesting presence, or a great voice. Really big fan of Mahershala Ali in both regards.
And my favourite part about that Hellboy reboot was Daniel Dae Kim. He may be my original male celebrity crush.
I think Mr Rassimov is exactly right, except for one slight detail. The sad truth is that women in their 20s have to settle for Chads, because all the incels their age are only attracted to girls 13-17. Mr Rassimov’s general postulate that attraction follows availability is of course correct, he just has cause and effect reversed.
@dashapants
Oh. Yes. Yes.
Hey, I’m still cut up about Microsoft canceling VB6, does that make me a basic bitch? 😉
(Sorry, Visual Basic.NET, you’re just C# in a funny hat as far as I’m concerned)
I just have an image now of all women waking up the day after their 20th birthday and demanding to see a manager, any manager…
Seriously, this stuff tells you all you need to know about these guys, viz. that they can’t conceive of a relationship of equals with a woman, that there’s always gotta be a power differential in their favour. If they can’t dominate a partner economically, they will take advantage of someone’s immaturity to get what they want. Get in the sea, assholes.
@Cat Mara:
That sounds like an interesting premise for a horror film, actually. Working title: The Karening.
@Cat Mara
I was never a huge fan of VB in the first place, but VB.NET I refuse to touch.
@Moggie
And it could feature Adam Driver and Benedict Cumberbatch.
Tangentially related, one of the incel/manosphere things that I find weirdest is the “universal, objective scale of attractiveness.”
The idea that there is some Platonic ideal of hotness, and everyone can be rated on how close they get to it. Like, there is a ideal skin tone, and being further from it lowers your rating. And an ideal body shape. And so on.
Whaaat? Not only does this ignore that different people find different traits attractive, it ignores that any one person probably finds different, mutually exclusive traits attractive. Very few people have a single “type,” much less everyone of a given sexual orientation.
Plus, of course, that many, many of these traits are non-physical. For example, I have a crush on author Jenna Moreci, and yes, she’s very pretty, but she is also hilarious. There’s just something about a lovely, feminine woman swearing like a sailor because authors keep romanticizing creepy assholes in books for teenage girls.
Oh hey, I found my way back to the topic (sort of).
I would have looked at it from the opposite prospective. Adam Driver is such a massive alpha male that even 14-year-olds who will never meet him have huge crushes on him. This random nobody who can’t get laid thinking he’s just like Adam Driver does not make any sense.
I have a serious thing for Brian Molko of Placebo and some people can’t tell if he’s male or female.
Y’all are so funny. And apparently quite young. And I agree with many of your crushes. (Especially Hiddleston… and Daniel Dae Kim and … I’m old, not dead)
My first crush, one that actually does make me cringe a bit, was Michale Landon. I know what you’re thinking, but I’m not talking Little House, I’m talking Little Joe. Early Bonanza. He didn’t hold that undefinable thing that makes a male-attracted person (or at least me) swoon, not even into his late 30s. I don’t know why.
My second big crush was and still is David McCallum. If you’ve only seen him as an old man, my children, you are missing out. He’s still attractive to me, and I think he has to be pushing 80. But back in the day, oh, my. Oh, MY!
My most recent crush is Chris Pine. I saw him in a magazine advertisement a couple of years ago and was immediately, overwhelmingly reminded that I am straight. Oh, so very straight.
As for incels, those pathetic creeps can lie to themselves all they like, but it’s not about what they look like. My most recent real life crush is a man who is objectively ugly. And not in a cute way. Remember the man who was “Mikey” in Men in Black? The alien hiding out with a truck full of illegal immigrants at the very beginning? My friend looks a lot like that. But he’s so very smart, and funny as hell, and warm-hearted. And guess what? I’m not the only one attracted to him. In fact, his wife is movie star beautiful. They’ve been married for 20 years. My crush has only been from afar, as all crushes should be. (It’s not that a crush can’t turn into something real, it’s just that it doesn’t have to be real to be enjoyed. And it’s important not to confuse a crush with real life.)
You know, the more of their nonsense that David posts, I’m think I’m beginning to see some method to their
proverbial madnessnarrative. Ultimately, the incel community is where they go to protect their own egos while marinating in fresh hatreds. Using their logic, if women are just into “chads,” that’s their own way of absolving their own hideous attitudes as the reasons that women don’t go for them. Why any attraction to less-than-ideal men is so threatening is that it’s evidence that it’s not the “chad” physique that draws their attentions, hence their own lack of a “chad” physique does not explain their own inability to have a healthy relationship. This is why they have to come up with another explanation (“beta bux”).In short, there’s nothing more threatening to the narrative these guys reinforce among each other than a less-than-conventionally attractive man being happy with a partner.
Just in terms of hot guys… I dunno, I have trouble naming any that aren’t adult performers. Damn my porn-addled brain!
(Oh Trenton Ducati… you’re such a dreamboat… and a silicone mold of your fun parts are available in assorted colours…!)
@Allandrel
I care way more about personality and character than appearance anyway, but in terms of appearance I find people of all descriptions to be attractive. My guess is that incels are so self-centered that they can’t imagine anyone having different attraction than them.
@Katamount
And yet I see that almost every day. There’s lots of people who aren’t models but are happy and have satisfying relationships.
Maybe it’s that I don’t watch much porn, but most of the men in mainstream porn don’t strike me as particularly attractive. I’m guessing this is because it is aimed at the heterosexual male gaze, so they don’t cast attractive men.
@Mogwitch
Isn’t Adam Driver with the brain of an Incel (or alt-right edgelord as there is much overlap). basically Kylo Ren?
@dashapants
Does he have any Tattoos that had to be digitally removed for his shirtless scene in the last Jedi?
https://terminallance.com/2018/01/12/terminal-lance-last-motivator/
One of the reasons that I know I’m a straight guy is that I really do not understand why people find some men attractive.
Like, Tom Hiddleston or Idris Elba I get – they’re handsome and charming.
But seriously people why is Adam Driver considered hot? Am I just too straight to get it?
@Katamount
I have much the same issue. When someone asked me for my list of the Most Beautiful Women in the World, most of them were adult performers. Otherwise, it was two actresses and a singer/songwriter.
My excuse was that the adult performers dominated the list because they provide more data to work with. Yeah, that’s it!
Speaking of incels in films, I watched Jojo Rabbit at my local theater the other day and was reminded of incels by one scene.
SPOILER ALERT:
.
.
.
The main character, Jojo, has his face disfigured by a grenade accident. In one scene, he complains that nobody will ever kiss him because he is too ugly.
END SPOILERS
That scene reminded me of the incel complaint that their appearances keep them from having sex. In Jojo’s case, much like the incels, it has far more to do with his political views.
@Allandrel
I’d say most people consider him attractive because his appearance contains features they find attractive, much like why you find some women attractive.
I’m pansexual but generally prefer women and non-binary people. In my view Adam Driver is hot.
Just out of curiosity, what was the context for being asked for your list of most attractive women? I have a hard time choosing most attractive men and women in the world because I haven’t seen all 7.6 billion people. The best looking person alive could be living in a remote area I’ve never seen.
tbh when my husband acts like a raging chad is the time I find him the least attractive. I can’t really stand to be around him when he’s like that. The only reasons he’s like that is because the marine corp is full of guys with the raging chad personality type. It’s like if you took all the worse frat boys, put them on an island, gave them guns, access to a full gym, cheap boozes and there is hardly any women around. my husband does not have that personality type but he had to create persona basically to fit in and he hates it.
He’s in such a dissociated state all the time when he’s there that it worries me a lot about his mental health. He’s told me he’s tried to talk to a couple guys just as himself, how he really is, things he really likes, and they either don’t get it or shut him down. I guess him a nerd in chad clothing? He already takes a lot of hits for me too. He’s got a roommate and he’s barely ever alone, but if we’re talking on the phone and I ask for it he’ll sing to me, no matter where he is. He’ll sing our songs to me.
Who else has been watching Limetown? It reminded me that I find Stanley Tucci hot, even though he’s bald and and almost 20 years older then me. He just seems like a really confident guy, he has tons of charisma, and a very laid-back confident energy that is attractive to me. Probably incels would use this as proof that I have “daddy issues”. Which is it, scumbags? Do we want to fuck our fathers or do we exclusively lust after chiseled male models?? Because my father was routinely mistaken for Wilford Brimley when he was alive, and I can tell you that I am not sexually aroused by those “diabeetus” memes.
“Women are to blame
for men being into underage girls,”creepy incel insists@sarah_kay_gee
You’ve probably seen this before, but it was the first thing my mind jumped to when you mentioned Stanley Tucci, so I had to link it.