By David Futrelle
Generally speaking, it’s a waste of time for sensible people to argue with TERFs — that is, Trans-Excluding Radical Feminists. But on rare occasions it can be, well, highly illuminating. And weirdly entertaining.
Take, for example, the strange debate that broke out in J.K. Rowling’s mentions last night (FWIW, Rowling herself had nothing to do with it). After a long pitched battle over such fascinating topics as whether or not TERF is a slur (it’s not, BTW), one TERF demanded to know why a trans lesbian was interested in dating … other lesbians.
@TheaGardO replied that it wasn’t about the genitals: “No one can change sex … males never get a ‘fully female body.'”
Emma responded with a question, and a NEW HERO responded with an unexpected answer:
Er, what?
Someone called Malachite Tiger tried to tease out the implications with a sarcastic comment, and then things got EPIC.
Um …..
“Vaginal mucus is certainly a key element [of] what straight men are attracted to in female bodies.” That’s a slogan I’ve never seen on a t-shirt, that’s for sure.
I can’t speak for lesbians, but as a straight man, I have to say that the term “vaginal mucus” has never once popped into my head during a sexual fantasy. I’ve never heard a guy brag about his girlfriend’s awesome vaginal mucus, or suggest to me that I “check out the mucus” on some hot gal walking by.
Yes, straight guys tend to get psyched when a cis woman they’re with gets really wet down in that, er, humid region, though to be honest this is generally because they like to give themselves credit for this happy development. Some guys are obsessed with going down on cis women, and the taste is part of that whole experience; but other guys — as cis women understandably complain — aren’t.
Meanwhile, you have probably heard about the obsession many straight dudes have with putting their dicks in women’s butts, where, by definition, there is no vaginal mucus and the necessary lubrication comes in little bottles or tubes you can literally buy at any drug store. And guess what, either option down there feels pretty good for the guy.
Seriously, as long as a cis guy has some place to put his dick, or maybe a couple of options (not all of them necessarily located on the bottom half of the body), he’s generally pretty pleased. And there is obviously a lot more to sex than putting dicks in, well, whatever hole or crevice feels good to put them in. Sex is about more than genitals. And while your preferences are your preferences, and that’s fine, the people who are the most open about what counts as sex tend to have (and to be) the most fun.
The talk about vaginal mucus seems weird because it is weird. Love is about people, not about sexual organs and their particular secretions. Straight men (and lesbians, and bi or poly people of whatever gender) can and do enjoy sex with women who have surgically constructed vaginas, or no vaginas at all. Women (and gay men, and bi/pan folks) can enjoy sex with guys whose dicks aren’t even close to porn-star sized — and with guys who are impotent or literally have no dicks. Anyone confused by any of this can easily find numerous videos illustrating all these scenarios online, and many, many more.
TERFs are obsessed with “natiral” sex, but they talk about it as if they (and we) were Martians.
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Same.
@David
If the British comedy writer you’re thinking of is Graham Linehan, it’s not really a rumor.
Wouldn’t be surprised to hear it’s a differeng guy tho. There’s something in the water in the UK, and by something I mean Heritage Foundation $$
wow that tumblr is so hateful
Glad we don’t have to deal with this particular someone who used to be a regular being a surprise TERF anymore..
Thank you, David.
Yes, thanks David!
This kind of thing is always so disappointing.
Thank you, David!
And thanks to kupo as well, for digging up those receipts.
Good bloody riddance!
@Catalpa
No problem! I normally don’t have that great of a memory but when that initial TERF shit went down I started paying attention, as I had a feeling it would come up again. I would have been fine leaving it there if it hadn’t been brought up again, but here we are.
Comment on an earlier part of this thread: What I have heard is that while radfems invented the term “TERF”, it was originally invented by non-transphobic radfems as an exclusionary term. Basically as a way of saying “errm, those people don’t represent us, no matter how much they may claim to.” It might be an accurate descriptive term, but it’s not something they’ve ever called themselves. And of course, the current batch of TERFs are mostly people which either aren’t meaningfully feminists, or else the type of feminist that most feminists would find unpleasant to be associated with even without the transphobia.
Also since Sinfest was mentioned, what’s currently happening is: wearing Handmaid’s Tale outfits in protest only caters to male fantasies and strengthens the left-wing half of the patriarchy, “SWERF” is a slur against people who “empower choice” (that one’s not a best guess on my part, it’s pretty blatantly spelled out), and “sex work is work” is the cry of the abused who are too brainwashed to leave their abusers.
Re: Sinfest, Tat has lost me. He was edgy and clever and now he is just tiresome.
People get confused by actual TERFs (Janice Raymond Sheila Jeffreys, etc) and followers of TERF ideology. Raymond stated what that is:
“I contend that the problem of transsexualism would best be served by morally mandating it out of existence. What this means is that I want to eliminate the medical and social systems that support transsexualism “.
The thing is that if we have someone who supports the Nazi ideology of ‘exterminate all Jews and other undesirables’…then whatever else they are …they are a Nazi.
It is similar with TERFs and their followers, who usually call themselves ‘gender critical feminists’. But whatever they call themselves, they follow the TERF ideology of total trans elimination.
Sure the vast majority of them are cis, heterosexual, gender conforming, white, middle (and above) class, middle aged (and older) women, usually married to a ‘Nigel’*, whose ‘feminism’ stops at attacking trans women and have little or no interest in women’s rights and issues. Heck quite a few are outright right wing (often religious right).
There are a few lesbians, but most of them are ‘political lesbians’ (like Bindel), who think sexuality is a ‘choice’ and equate lesbianism as just not having sex with men…chastity in fact (sort of women incels)
For them I use the label ‘anti trans gender hypocritical fauxminists’.
*’Nigel’ is a term they use themselves. Over and over you will see them attack men as all ‘misogynistic murdering rapists’ (etc) …but not their own ‘dear husband’ (a Nice Guy I Fell In Love with) who’s a ‘good man’ and a ‘feminist’ because he agrees with them about trans people.