That’s dames for ya
So hey. I’m not officially back on duty yet — I’ll be back sometime in the next couple of days — but I thought I’d seed a little discussion here with what I’m calling The Official We Hunted the Mammoth Book Recommendation Thread.
Which is pretty self-explanatory, so have at it! Any genre, old or new. I will probably gather up the various suggestions for a later post or page.
And, yep, the book in the pic up there is a real book that exists, written by a fella named Peter Cheyney, and which you can buy on Amazon for the low, low price of $2,986.69. No, really.
That’s for a new copy. If you’re some kind of cheapskate, you could pick up a used copy instead, for a relatively thrifty $86.90.
Here are the first couple of paragraphs of the book, courtesy of Amazon, so you can have some idea what you’ll be getting for your money:
Is it hot!
I aint never been in hell, but Im tellin you that I bet it aint any hotter than this Californian desert in July.
I am drivin along past Indio an I figure that soon I am goin to see the Palm Springs lights. An I am goin some the speedometer says eighty. If it wasnt so hot it would be a swell night; but there aint any air, an there was a baby sand storm this afternoon that caught me asleep an I gotta lump of the Mojave desert or whatever they call it stuck right at the back of my throat
I strongly urge you to go to Amazon and click on the “look inside” tab to read more of Mr. Cheyney’s hardboiled prose.
Within the few short pages available in Amazon’s preview, the book’s narrator (tough guy private dick Lemmy Caution) not only manages to eat a lump of sand; he also orders a hamburger (at a hot dog joint) and some ham and eggs (at a second joint). It’s not clear if he eats any of the hamburger before splitting, but you’ll be glad to know that he at least starts eating the ham and eggs.
Oh, he also calls a guy a “sissy” and gets his ass kicked.
I know the book sounds truly amazing, but before you click the “buy” button, let me make a little counteroffer: if you’re really intent on spending $2,986.69 on a book titled “Dames Don’t Care,” pay me that amount, and I will write an entire new book by that name in the style of the original, more or less. For $86.90, I will write a (very) short story in the same style.
Or you could post book recommendations in the comments below. That’s good, too.
Here’s the full cover for Dames.
If on a winter’s night a traveller it is. Sold! I was eyeing “The Baron In The Trees” because the library has it, but that one sounds even better.
@Alan:
Would the bank pay interest, so that when you get your memory back, it’s embellished with flaming ninjas riding dinosaurs?
Alan:
“What do you do for a living?”
“I’m a bank teller”
“What’s that?”
“I tell people there’s a bank”
@ buttercup
Hmm, I must have been using that bank during the rave scene; because those pretty much are my memories of that period.
@ moggie
Brilliant!
@ Dlouwe
Would there be room for mix ups? Could I accidentally pick up someone else’s memories by mistake?
Shoot, Saga got recommended several times already! Eh, one more recommendation isn’t gonna hurt! Love love love LOVE it, fantastic art, unique characters, and great storytelling from Fiona Staples and Brian K. Vaughan.
Also, I recommend First Blood. Yes, I am serious. Yes, there was a book and not only that, it’s actually really nuanced compared to its film counterpart (Not that the film is bad, just that it’s Hollywoodized as with most adaptations). David Morrell really knows how to get his antiwar message across without coming off as preachy.
And I’m going to switch to films briefly for another recommendation of Jean-Luc Godard’s Alphaville! Pretty cool flick.
@Kupo
If I can think of a believable way to present such a technology, then yeah that could do it!
@Alan
That would depend on the actual mechanics of the memory loss, though I do want it to stay as predictable and intuitive as possible. Both for the plausibility of people adapting to it, as well as for the reader’s benefit. Though mix-ups as a *rare* occurrence could be a useful plot point.
@ kylo
Seconding your recommendation of First Blood.
Obviously it goes into more depth than the film (the comparisons between Korean and Vietnam war veterans for example) and of course there’s the ending. I do think however the film is pretty nuanced too. After the first two sequels I think perhaps that there’s maybe a sort of retroactive memory effect with how we think of Rambo; but the first film is pretty subtle. There’s only one death; and that’s an accident. But for the sequels I think it would have been regarded on a par with some of the classic anti war films like Paths of Glory or All Quiet on the Western Front.
@ Dlouwe
I think it may be productive to look at the different mechanisms as to how STM and LTM work and consider what would occur if LTM worked the same way as STM.
How that physical/psychological change would come about is interesting to ponder too. Might there be some sort of evolutionary advantage? If so, what was the selection pressure? (A global event of such horror that the severity of PTSD meant you were better off not being able to remainder things?)
Today on the tram I saw a man drop a large dead fish on the floor. He picked it back up. And licked his fingers. I’m done with humanity.
@Alan
That’s a good point – reading into the inner workings of memory could help with a more comprehensive and believable approach to the mechanics, as well as some potential ideas for how they could be altered.
Also the idea of a global moment of horror that breaks the ability of humanity to remember things is really really cool; definitely gonna mull on that one.
@IP
That sounds rather fishy.
*lowers visor and ducks incoming tomatoes*
@ Dlouwe
There’s a famous legal philosophy paper, the case of the spelunkian explorers. It takes place in a society after some near apocalyptic event that’s only ever referred to as “the great spiral”. I loved the fact you never found out what it was; just made it all the more eerie. It can be really effective when things aren’t revealed. I think maybe that’s why I love those Mitchell & Webb sketches (Ah, remember the event? DO NOT REMEMBER THE EVENT!!!). There’s also the ‘special stuff’ in league of gentlemen (“Whatever you think it might be, you’re wrong. It’s worse than that”)
Anyway, the point I meant to make was, maybe consider never revealing what it was. Let people’ imagination try to fill the gap. After all, the potential premise of your story is that it’s so traumatic no one can remember it.
ETA: you could though have a bit where the only thing people remember about the apocalypse was that the first people to die were the keyboard warriors 🙂
@ IP
Do you not have the “2 second rule” over there? (Or in my case “2 second rule! Oops. 5 second rule! Oh come here. Gotcha. 23 second rule!”)
As we say in Yorkshire “You’ve to eat so much dirt before you die”. It’s good for your immune system. All that Omega 3 and tram floory goodness. 🙂
(On a more serous note, when you consider what and how a lot of people in the world have to eat, assuming they get the chance, it just makes me realise how lucky I am.)
Hello, everyone.
I realize David is on a well earned hiatus right now and I’m essentially hijacking a conversation about books but I’m very upset and I need advise.
I’ve been following this blog for 2-3 years and I’ve only commented a handful of times. I’ve felt like I was intruding on a private conversation between friends and felt uncomfortable joining in.
I hope you all don’t mind if I share my problem and ask for your advise.
I’ve just been suspended from Facebook for 7 days. I was suspended just last month for 3 days. I follow several feminist blogs and news sites, Jezebel is one and it gets an inordinate number of MRAs and anti-feminist trolls.
Someone, or more likely several trolls, they troll in groups like school-yard bullies, reported a post that did not contain foul language or threats or derogatory remarks. I usually just point out their hypocrisy using their own comments and articles and videos by Janet Bloomfield and Karen Straughn etc.
that I learn about here.
The comment reported was innocuous. I don’t understand why I was suspended.
Today the same troll was out in full force again and I responded to her straw-arguments and false equivalencies and I received another messags that I am being suspended for 7 days now.
How are they doing this when facebook is notorious for refusing to address actual instances of abuse and threats?
Last time, I only discovered I had been suspended because I tried to message a friend and a pop-up messsge informed me that I was suspended because I was reported for posting videos or photos of sexually explicit matetial involving minors.
I was horrified and frightened.
What kind of people lie about child porn just to fuck with someone on facebook? How does facebook sudpend someone with such a serious charge without evidence? No such post exists. I’m so afraid for my reputation and job and my kids. That is such a serious accusation.
What should I do? What can I do?
@Alan
Again, lots of good input. You’re a good sounding board, thanks! I have been thinking about making the event unspecified in the story, though I do want there to be a real explanation for it, if at least to keep myself consistent when I drip-feed the reader with oblique hints that never quite reveal the full truth of it.
Reading on STM/LTM a bit, I have caught a thread that I think might have some substance: since STM is stored “acoustically” and LTM “semantically” – what if by saying something out loud, your brain re-encoded the LTM acoustically “like” STM and consequently severed the semantic links? This would solve the silliness of forgetting things immediately in a conversation, but the net result would be “If you talk about this, you will forget it, forever.” But it could also be potentially interpreted as a defense mechanism against inconsolable horror; “If you say it out loud, you can forget.”
ETA: apologies to anyone who actually understands the science; i’m sure the above is mostly nonsense. But it does satisfy my layman’s bare-minimum requirement for plausibility in a fiction story!
See y’all later, I’m just going to blast off in my nope rocket to the moon.
dlouwe:
the parallel that immediately struck me was to the arguments over filesharing and intellectual property rights. from there, the obvious approach would be that some over-enthusiastic enforcement policies have got out of hand. everyone gets a brain implant…chip…type…….thing…….*waves hands wildly* at birth to enforce Proper Respect For Information. (of course, it would be difficult to work that into a story while avoiding the political baggage that accompanies the subject.)
Alan’s idea of professional rememberers makes me wonder whether this could work through purely social mechanisms: much like we’d consider it rude for someone to take back the present they just gave, maybe it has become unacceptable not to make yourself forget something that you have told someone else? handing someone a piece of text you’ve already read is like offering them a used tissue.
the rules might be less strict for certain people, or within certain contexts — at the memory bank, or with a teacher or close family member. we humans are exceedingly good at enforcing awkward and even outright damaging social rules, but they also tend to be inconsistent. and of course we’re also exceedingly good at bending the rules or ignoring breaches when necessary.
also: hello everyone! thanks for the excellent book recommendations. given the theme of slightly odd Italian books, my own suggestion would probably have to be Q, by Luther Blisset (the pen-name of a group of anarchists, not the former Watford striker).
@Princess Buttercup
First, you’re not interrupting or hijacking the thread. It’s already pretty off topic, and you should feel free to join in.
As for your FB issue, I’m really sorry you’re going through that. Unfortunately FB is notorious for banning the people quoting/responding to harassment rather than the harassers. I think it’s either algorithms that determine whether a ban happens and/or content is removed or it’s just that they outsource it to people who have poor guidelines and poor social context. Could even be both.
As for what to do? Personally I would contact crash override or one of the other links David has been kind enough to include on the sidebar (or bottom of the page on mobile). Good luck; I wish I had better advice for you.
@ princess b
That’s fucking awful. It’s so easy to laugh at these MRA wankers we sometimes forget what vile odious wastes of protoplasm they can be.
In practical terms, what country are you in? There are various legal options. Frankly I wouldn’t bother with them; but I’m more than happy to assist that way if I can and it’s a route you’d wish to pursue.
It might be better to see if you can get the assistance of a journalist. There’s been a lot of discussion about this sort of thing over here recently, and there are some journos who take a keen interest in this. It may be the same where you are. A journo may carry a bit more clout in terms of pressure on FB. Perhaps more importantly though you create a public record (even if you do so anonymously) that you can point to to get the truth across should that ever become necessary.
I’m a pretty placid person generally, but there are some behaviours that make my blood boil. This is one of them so you very much have my sympathy here.
@ligne
While that’s not quite the direction I’m looking to take it, I’m quite delighted by the different sorts of scenarios this idea spawns, and I thank you for your input! I quite like the “social enforcement” aspect; it’s definitely a direction I hadn’t considered in much depth, but could be useful for conveniently “filling in holes” without feeling too contrived, regardless of the actual mechanic I settle on.
Recommended:
The War Against Women – Marilyn French
Pornland: How Porn Has Hijacked Our Sexuality – Gail Gines
The Macho Paradox – Jackson Katz
The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan is pretty good. High quality fantasy without Tolkien’s underlying racism and total lack of female characters. Also explores more interesting themes than the best king is the guy with the longest pedigree.
Princess Buttercup: Your best bet is to actually go directly through Facebook, and let them know what was going on. A lot of their systems are automated, so there’s no human hand in these sorts of things, so you want to get one involved.
Barring that, I’d take Alan’s advice and look up the laws in your area and see what can be done with those.
In happier news: I just found out there are some different science dolls other than the occasional [Insert Science job here] Barbie:
Princess Buttercup,
The only time we mind thread derails is when it’s troll wankery, so please feel free to jump in any time with on or off topic posts!
To continue the off topic stuff, have any English mammotheers been to Crowland before? It’s a small town in Lincolnshire. It’s where my great grandmother – who I’m named after- grew up. I just thought it might be fun if someone here had a connection to the area too. Anyway, we’ve decided that we’re going to take a trip to the UK next year sometime. We’ll go to London, check out Crowland and we’re thinking of doing Glasgow too. I’m pretty excited! The only other time I’ve been out of the US, besides Canada was when I went to Paris way back in 2004. I actually haven’t even been out of Minnesota for a couple of years, so I’m definitely due for some travel.
As a side note, isn’t it kinda weird that distributing child porn would only get you suspended for a week?
@wwth
Awesome! Travelling is great. I’m also going to the UK for the first time soon. I’ve been to Heathrow a few times but that doesn’t count.
My summer travel plans include London, northern New Jersey/New York City, and Galveston, Texas. Any mammotheers in those areas? 🙂
Turns out our time in London will be very tight, so I don’t think we’ll have time for a meetup there, sadly. (EJ was discussing the possibility months ago when we started planning for this trip.)
@Princess Buttercup:
Wow. I am so sorry (although hardly amazed) that you are being screwed by FB’s capricious and arbitrary suspension “policy.” Unfortunately, it’s just so easy for vindictive trolls to target someone who has the gall to disagree with them.
Getting a journalist involved seems very promising. I did a little digging and found an article on ZDNet by Emil Protolinski. In 2012 he had been contacted by several people who had been similarly victimized. He immediately contacted FB directly, got them to apologize, and got the suspensions etc. reversed. Now, I know this was several years ago but u still might try e-mailing him. I mean, you’re being wrongly accused of sending sex materials involving minors! I hope he can help u, or at least offer some additional advice. Good luck!
@Princess Buttercup
Firstly, I love your username.
Secondly, unfortunately, this is the bog standard for Facebook. There was a case last year where a feminist named Clementine Ford reposted some of the rape and death threats she’d been sent – and Facebook banned her but not the MRAs who sent them.
I’d highly recommend trying to get in touch with her, since she’s been there and done that and should have a few situation-specific pointers. Good luck!
Hmmm. I got so cranked up about FB’s draconian suspension policy that I almost forgot about the book list:
1. Martin Eden – I rarely read fiction but I’ve loved Jack London’s superb character study of a struggling writer since I first encountered it in college. I was thinking of a writing career myself and I empathized with Martin’s frustration with the “cogs” of publishing. London was a socialist, of course, so predictably he examines Martin’s striving to rise from working-class to bourgeois. Come to think of it this might be fun to discuss with Bernie Sanders 🙂
2. Theodosia Burr Alston: Portrait of a Prodigy by Richard N. Cote. Definitely on my to read list this summer. Theodosia, a brilliant, independent woman, had a remarkably complicated relationship with her adoring, charismatic father who provided her with a remarkable education. On a voyage from Charleston to New York her ship completely vanished and her eventual fate has become a great historical mystery (which I love).
3. American Prometheus by Martin Sherwin and Kai Blid. An engrossing bio of Robert Oppenheimer, The authors do a superb job of analyzing the iconic Oppenheimer and his difficult, enigmatic personality. Everything is covered including his increasingly conflicted feelings about the Manhattan Project and his fatal riff with Edward Teller which lead, indirectly, to Oppenheimer’s humiliating denial of a security clearance in the 1950’s. Great read.
4. I’d like to know more about all of the physicists of the Manhattan Project so I’m going to read Brotherhood of the Bomb by Gregg Herken this summer.
5. I’d recommend anything by cultural historian Susan Bordo. I love how she melds gender studies with media trends and our modern consumerism. Sharp and insightful. My favorite is The Male Body (1999) which is an incise (and fun) examination on how our society and popular culture have dealt with the male body image. I admit the erotic photos of various men was a big bonus in my opinion but, as Lemmy Caution would probably explain it, “She’s just that kind of dame.”
@Patty Cakes
I find Tolkien’s phraseology troubling sometimes, but racist ? None of the peoples in his LOTR legendarium have been totally free of error or acts of evil (even the Elves.)
He has one of the Hobbits in LOTR musing on how a slain Haradrim soldier may simply have been led astray by his leaders.
The LOTR stories are written using an in – universe POV, that might be held by an Elvish or Numemorean chronicler. You could expect such a scribe to be at the least a bit snooty about outsiders.
The lack of female characters is troublesome but not total. Arwen and Eowyn are pivotal to the plot of LOTR, with the Battle of Minas Tirith being arguably turned by Eowyn’s victory over the Witch – King.
@ Kevin
I can’t speak for Patty Cakes’ reasoning, but problems that others have had with Tolkien regarding racism center around the orcs. IIRC Tolkien describes them as ‘swarthy’ and most illustrations tend to make them gray to (true) black. However in the real world, the term has always referred to humans with brown to black skin. I don’t think there is a ‘right’ answer but I can certainly see why some are uncomfortable with this.
The other problem with the orcs is that they are what TV Tropes refers to as ‘Always Chaotic Evil.’ Some people have problems with this as labeling an entire people evil in the real world is flat out racist. Where you draw the line in works of fantasy is more subjective. If you accept the argument that it is just wrong there, it also condemns any author that uses ‘authentic’ fairy tale elves (Pratchett for example).
I can’t really agree with the points but won’t dismiss them either. YMMV.
@dlouwe,
uhh… Yeah, go with the nanowidgets. I don’t want to think about the implications for a brain that does that.
Cool idea, though! I can see it as a really powerful metaphor for a couple of things. Decreasing memory due to automated reminders (who can remember the phone numbers of all the people they care about in the age of the smartphone? Birthdays?), decreasing literacy in an iconic age; all sorts of interesting societal commentary from that sort of a setting. Very cool.
+1 for “Bank Teller”
I just finished a book about digital life forms that was quite interesting: The Lifestyle of Software Objects by Ted Chiang. If you like books about artificial intelligence, I recommend it. The human characters are believable (and not obnoxious like the guy in Galatea 2.2, though probably that was a deliberate character choice) and not ALL straight white people.
The style is fast-paced without a lot of mood-setting or description, and I guess you’d call it hard sci-fi – it’s fairly realistic, though not overly technical.
Oh, and a good poetry book: The Wrong Cat by Lorna Crozier. Mostly short narrative poems. “A Disturbance of Flies” is very down-to-earth and witty, although the title sounds like something from Game of Thrones. She also has beautifully surreal animal poems (and two poems involving berries: raspberries and blackberries).
@Imaginary Petal – Well, on the bus last week I dropped a croissant on the floor (whole wheat, non-sticky on the outside) and, since people were looking at me, I waited until I got to the subway to eat it. 🙂 (It’s weird that as a teenager I was a terrible hypochondriac, but I’ve never really been a germophobe).
@dlouwe – Those sound like interesting plot ideas! Writing is fun, but frustrating – oftentimes I start out a story with a plot in mind, but when I start writing it I discover I need to change the whole plot around because a different idea works better, or I need to change a character (one poor character was gotten rid of entirely – down the Memory Hole as in 1984, all references to him deleted)… and so on. It’s a process!
@Princess Buttercup – I have no useful Facebooky advice, but it sucks that people would do that. I would do what you’re doing – see if I could reach out to friends, online or off, to see if they’d had similar situations and also for support. Also, yay for The Princess Bride and its character names!
@Scildfreja – Resident Fluttershy: Have you seen the latest MLP episode? It’s about Fluttershy and her family, and I thought it was pretty good that we finally got to see them.
Oops, sorry, the Parasol Protectorate begins with Soulless.
Kazuo Ishiguro’s Never Let Me Go.
Don’t read anything about it– don’t even read the back cover if you can avoid it. Just trust me on this one.
@Her Grace Phryne:
I agree that Anne McCaffrey had problems as a writer – amongst other things, using some very problematic romance tropes without thinking about them – but she also created some imaginative kick-a** worlds, too. The Pegasus/Tower and the Hive books (aka 101 uses for psi powers), Restoree, the Cattenni(sp?) books, Pern, plus a ton of others, we’re all fun places to visit for a few hours. And I need to revisit some of those books again, sooner rather than later.
As for other writers I’ve read recently, I’m currently finishing up the latest (#16) in C. J. Cherryh’s Foreigner series, Visitor. She just introduced the mysterious enemy the alien Kyo have been fighting, and…hoo boy. Not who fans were expecting, let’s say.
For those who want something a bit different in their fantasy, Richard and Wendy Pini’s Elfquest comics take some standard fantasy tropes and give them a twist. Their elves are overall an earthy bunch (and polyamorous), the dwarf analogues are trolls, wolves are clearly on the side of Good, there’s some SF elements seemlessly woven into the backstory, bunches of fun stuff like that. Give it a try, sometime.
Absolutely. I used to do text-based RP in Pern. I still miss it sometimes. 🙂 I just wanted to give a warning for people who might find that stuff problematic.
Recent “Cracked” article I really wanted to share:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-dumbest-excuses-game-makers-gave-excluding-women/?wa_user1=2&wa_user2=Video+Games&wa_user3=blog&wa_user4=feature_module
Hiya. Long-time lurker, here, but I can’t resist a book recommendation, so:
Season of Migration to the North (Tayeb Salih):
The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven (Sherman Alexie)
Neuromancer (William Gibson)
The War with the Newts (Karl Capek)
Proof (David Auburn)
@ WWTH
Isn’t Lindsayirene from Lincolnshire? Crowland has a really pretty bridge; but rather weirdly it’s just in the middle of the town, it doesn’t actually go anywhere.
Bit late coming to this thread but the latest (7th ?) novel in Charles Stross’ Laundry Files series (think British Intelligence Service/Civil Service vs Cthulhu) – The Nightmare Stacks is out next week so I’m attempting to finish Paul Cornell’s Who Killed Sherlock Holmes before it arrives.
(There’s also a rather good Tabletop RPG based on the Laundry Files books [makes a nice counterpoint in style to the thematically similar Delta Green] which is well worth picking up it it appears in a Bundle of Holding bundle again)
Oops double post…
I would like to recommend some books that my friend has written! They are books one and two of a trilogy, featuring his own unique fantasy realm. I was involved with the beta reading process and helped edit somewhat. He’s a new author and trying to get a name, so if you have a couple of bucks to spare and want some light fantasy reading, please consider him!
The first book is Ashes of Alour-Tan, followed by Embers of Alour-Tan. I enjoyed them!
Here you go, one more book to add:
http://darktriadman.com/2016/06/07/book-review-free-speech-isnt-free-roosh-v/
Regards,
Ivan
DarkTriadMan.com
@Her Grace Phyrne:
There’s still plenty of text-based Pern games running about on various boards like Proboards and Jcink and such, if you ever want to return to that world. Canon, semi-canon (like, includes more dragon colors than the original five, has AU elements in its history, stuff like that), and non-canon. I play on one that’s semi-canon; I find it pretty fun to be on.
Want link(s)? 😀
Oh, an additional item to the reading lists: Omaha the Cat Dancer. The creators were offered a decent chunk of money to complete their NC-17 ‘funny animal’ comic some years ago, so if anyone wanted to know who killed Sen. Bonner, the answer’s been revealed. >:D
I can check it out. I played on a MUSH, so forum-based games seem really slow to me. But I’ll give it a shot. 🙂
CW for some of the McCaffrey books; human non-consensual sex, casual sexism, and homophobia in the early ones. I still love ’em, though, because the world makes up for all that for me. YMMV, though.
Gail Carriger has another steampunk series that’s quite good, too, the Parasol Protectorate, beginning with Changeless. Alexia is a really fun protagonist.