Uh oh.
Let’s take another stroll through the strange wonderland of Men Going Their Own Way, that small and bitter tribe of men who boldly declare their independence from women, then spend the rest of their lives obsessively talking about them.
Today, let’s look at the thoughtful discussion that ensued when one such fellow known as TDG asked his Brothers in Going Their Own Way why, of all the women they have Gone Their Own Way from (but not really), they tend to prefer women who are “chaste.”
For women, I’m guessing the main reason they weren’t so slutty before the 1950s, was because of the fear of having a bastard womb turd, but the pill changed all that and now they can have as many dicks as they like.
Now, I wont ever marry again and my ex-wife was a virgin and all that went to shit, but here’s my question;
Why do men want women that are chaste…?
I understand on a visceral level, that if a woman has had too many dicks, I can never care for her more than a cum rag, but I’m curious if that is societal conditioning or something that is innate to men…
Thoughts gentlemen…?
Unsurprisingly, the gentlemen of the MGTOW HQ forum did indeed have many thoughts on the subject. (I’ve bolded the most intriguing bits.)
ManWithAPlan had an economic explanation:
Because by going through the “bad boy” phase, they fuck away their only worth. There are three things I look for in a woman (mainly). Attractiveness, fertility and youth. If a woman is attractive and young, but can’t have kids, most men will treat her as a cum rag. If she’s fertile and young, but not attractive, she’s still no good to most men. If she’s old and attractive, she’s back to being a cougar and a cum rag.
Multishadow brought in biology:
[B]iologically speaking women represent a fertile ground for man to plant his seed, and no one wants to plant his seed in a garbage dump.
Second, a man must work to earn a woman, and then invest in her.. and no man wants to work for what others gain for free, or for what was freely given out in the past. There is also resentment for a female gaining sex freely, when a man must work for it.
And that is the third issue, people in general have a distaste for those who are gluttons for pleasure. … It is one thing to obtain sex when you want it, but if your only purpose in life is laying around having sex.. it is like watching an obese person eat.
That’s right: people who have a lot of sex are basically sex fatties. And no one likes a fatty, right?
Aldenhamil suggested that chaste women were a better bargain for frugal men:
Just having random sex is one thing and any old cum dumpster will usually do, but settling down with a woman, having children, and providing for them is something altogether different. It’s a massive investment of time, energy, and resources. Men naturally lean towards frugality and appreciate getting the most bang for their buck. When it comes to women>children>family, it’s a better bet to invest in a woman who isn’t swinging from every cock in town. …
Men instinctively know that whores make poor long-term investments, but they also instinctively know that all women will become whores if given the opportunity. The whole situation is a bit of a clusterfuck, really. It was a problem for Bronze Age societies, and it’s still a problem long after we’ve managed to put human beings in outer space.
Ghost Rider noted that “chaste” women won’t have had a lot of other guys to compare you to, so chances are good she won’t know how mediocre you are in bed:
From my observations, the more men a woman has been with, the greater the chance that she is carrying at least one torch if not more for some guy that dumped her. I believe the term is alpha widow. Seen quite a few times where a woman dumps hubby to get back with a guy she was carrying a torch for, or at least conduct a torrid affair with the guy when he came a calling.
In addition, she is more likely to get back on the cock carousel trying to recapture what she thought she had when she was younger. Also, a woman who hasn’t ridden the cock carousel is a lot less judgmental in the bedroom because she isn’t comparing you to the hundreds of guys she’s been in the sack with. If you’re an average guy, you’re probably not at the same level as the alpha thug with the huge cock that fucked the shit out of her all night. If you’re dumb enough to get married/remarried, who the hell needs that shit in addition to everything else.
Demonsgate, meanwhile, seems to be more terrified of being judged by other guys than by the women he dates:
Real simple because in my younger days when I walked into a bar or restaurant with a twat I didn’t want all you bastards laughing saying yep we all fucked her and this fool is dating her. Who wants to be that guy?
Mongolking answered TDG’s question with his own question:
I think the larger question is “Why Do We Want Them… At All?”
Given that this discussion is taking place on a forum devoted to Men Going Their Own Way, this seems like a reasonable enough question.
And I’ll give you all an answer: If you hate women so much you regularly describe them as “cum rags,” “cum dumpsters,” “garbage dumps,” “whores,” “twats,” or any of the other horrible things said by guys in this thread about women in the equally awful comments I didn’t quote, you should take that Going Your Own Way shit a little bit more seriously. Go your own way. Go a long way, off a short pier.
For anyone else reading this and thinking that “chaste” women are a better bet for putting up with your inept ass, let me set you straight: VIRGINS READ.
Yes, really.
I was one once, and you know what I did while I was waiting to find someone I finally was ready to sleep with? I read. A LOT. And I also discovered orgasms on my own (by accident, in fact), and found out how to have them with remarkable speed and ease. I didn’t even know they had a name, let alone that they were connected to sex, until I’d been having them on my own for a few years. Know how I finally found that all out? By READING.
Of course, this self-reliance didn’t help speed up the moment when I finally doffed my virginity, but maybe that’s a good thing, because it did help me to realize that you don’t need a man for that. You don’t even need sex for that. All you need is some self-awareness, some imagination, and if your hands alone don’t do the job, then you use your imagination and find something that does.
And yeah, I guess that may be why I’m still single, and even in my mid-40s, I have the audacity to be picky as hell. But you know what? At least I’m not going to settle for some schmuck who will only ever disappoint me. And I’m not going to waste years of my life hating myself and wondering what’s wrong with me. Women who marry as virgins with no knowledge of even how to please themselves might be in that boat, if they’ve had an exceptionally and abusively cultish upbringing, but it’s a terrible place to be, and no basis for a happy relationship. I was a feminist, a voracious reader, and self-aware even as a virgin, and that didn’t change after I’d had sex. If anything, it makes me a better and more desirable partner.
Maybe MRAs don’t like a woman with actual standards and bases for comparison, but I have bad news for y’all: Even virgins have those. And if you don’t make an effort to meet them, as we constantly make efforts to meet those of our partners, well…you have no one but yourselves to blame. And change.
Eh, TitianBlue, if you had even bothered to read the comments first you would clearly see that it was UndFreeLand who was still actively seeking a virgin leman. As I’ve said before on a couple of months or so ago, I’m done for now with human women, never again for as long as I can help it, they’ve disappointed me too much too many times.
Either you didn’t think through the implications of this phrasing, or you’ve just admitted to something fairly disturbing.
@random pest
Hey, is it really titanblues fault you trolls sound so similar;)
Also, human women? As opposed to human men, I hope, cuz otherwise I am rather confused…
I’m guessing he meant to type “human females”. Still…tell me more about these non-human women, RandomPoster.
RandomPoster, are you actually going to respond to anything or just keep coming back with random shit? Because, I know you’re living up to you name and all, but jeez. Here are my questions from yesterday:
1. Do you really think that a wife cheating on her husband is the same as rape?
2. Do you consider the television show Cheaters and the Twilight books to be art?
3. Do you have any peer-reviewed research to back up any of your claims? Any of them? Just pick one and post some actual research about it? Instead of tv shows and fiction?
Is Random Loser that guy in Florida who is going to court to marry his laptop full of porn?
RandomLoser: A Real Doll would be a much better option for you. Go get one and fuck off.
RP,
What other sort of women do you think their are?
I don’t give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut what you personally choose to do. (I fully and enthusiastically support your decision to avoid women. Please stand by those convictions. )
The point is, you are still promoting stupid, misogynistic bullshit. You are lying to men about women. You are pretending to have knowledge you do not have. You don’t know the first thing about women or sex. You’re an angry sexist asshole encouraging other men to be angry sexist assholes. You’re an insecure loser, not a rebel. You’re ignorant, not an authority. I’m glad you are keeping your sad boners to yourself. Now, do the same with your dishonest bullshit.
To those who believe, no proof is necessary. To those who disbelieve, no proof is enough. I merely tell the world what I have learned in my lifetime and anyone is free to believe it or not. That other males may relate it is testament to the current status quo of the war of the sexes. Now, just to remind everyone who may ever be inclined to blame me for why their present existence is currently suffering as the Buddhists say, I didn’t make the world, I just live in it. Indeed, like Howard the Duck, trapped in a world I never made. Dont hate the players, hate the game, so to speak. Art is whatever an individual believes it to be, as per American jurisprudence, you cant define it exactly, but you’ll know it when you sense it. And cuckoldry and rape are obviously different acts, and which is worse depends once again on the individual person experiencing it. Personally, I’d prefer to steer clear of either forever as neither seems like it would be fun in the slightest, to put it mildly.
RandoPest: stop universalizing your sad little life. Go away.
RP,
Go away and take your shitty writing and shittier attitudes with you.
“which is worse depends once again on the individual person experiencing it.”
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU!
So, translation: You have no proof of evidence for any claims and are just talking out your ass. Thanks for admitting that.
That’s not what I asked. I asked if you that the television show Cheaters and the Twilight books were art.because that was justification for using Cheaters and Twilight as “proof” of your claims. That “art imitates life.”
So, you’re saying that sometimes, a wife cheating on her husband is worse than rape. Wow. You are terrible human being.
@RandomPoster
Non sequitur after non sequitur.
Man is but a faintless mirage in the miniscule bookworms of the backyard. Enticing frequence restricts underhanded bootstraps. Hastily flared trees hardly cower. Shoo! Bleak-eyed salamanders fake their own luck. Verily, I fault upon the face of meltdown!
See, I can do it too!
But I’m another male and I think you’re talking absolute bollocks. Or rather, I can’t see anything in your various screeds that I can come anywhere close to applying to my own experience.
Why on earth would I blame you for the state of my present existence? You’re a nobody on the Internet, not God. You’re providing an excellent target for pointing at and laughing, but your existence hasn’t had any effect on mine in any other significant way.
Art is whatever an individual believes it to be, as per American jurisprudence, you cant define it exactly, but you’ll know it when you sense it.
Exactly the same is true of bullshit.
I think I can be reasonable certain in predicting that if someone was both cheated on and raped, they’d regard the latter as being considerably worse. And the fact that you even think that this is up for debate shows you up as the nasty little misogynist that you are.
Or do you construct similar “it depends on the individual” arguments comparing, say, being short-changed in a shop and being robbed and violently assaulted by a mugger?
Gaaah – blockquote monster strikes again! Obviously, the “Art is whatever an individual believes it to be” wibbling should be blocked out.
@anarchonist
“[…]See, I can do it too!”
I applaud your random pester imitation 🙂 you make just as much sense, but without the misogyny.
Ooo, are we doing Random Pester imitations?
*ahem*
The true state of humanity is a mystery wrapped in a puzzle, so to speak. Indeed, those who see can it clearly while others who also see may see a different type of clearly, as Pope Innocent VI once pontificated. At this juncture I would like to add that it is not I who makes the wind blow fiercely through the corners of our little lives. It is fate, but also logic. Indeed, like Aang the Last Airbender using his skills to overcome his enemies, the wind is our friend only when we also control the friendship with clarity and purpose of mind, as Sherlock Holmes as played by Benedict Cumberbatch in the recent BBC adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s classic Victorian detective series might do when faced with a difficult case. Once again, this depends, if it is as you believe it to be based on roots and equations, akin to various Gaelic languages, as it were. To disgress, art is then also a different thing, no better or worse than any of the other things. The individual must determine its course through the mind, as encapsulated in the Fleetwood Mac hit Go Your Own Way, to those who imagine it as such. In any case, the early bird catches the worm and I think therefore I am, so to speak. Don’t underestimate the power of believing or not believing, like someone did in the second season of Hoarders. The Buddhists after all, so to speak.
Now I’m going to read every Random Pester comment as if spoken by Howard the Duck (movie version). No wonder he’s through with human females.
@tinyorc: That was eerily uncanny. Are you sure you’re not channeling RandomPoster? You will know if you suddenly feel the need to go out and harass butlers because the Aristocats was a documentary.
@Robert: Ahahahaha!
RE: RandomPoster
That other males may relate it is testament to the current status quo of the war of the sexes.
Hi. I’m a guy. I don’t relate to it at all and think you’re full of shit.
And cuckoldry and rape are obviously different acts, and which is worse depends once again on the individual person experiencing it.
Uh, no. There’s not really a comparison, dude. Trust me, I know. I’ve been there. One of these things is not like the other. Dumbass.
I’ve emailed the Dark Lord about that cuckoldry/rape comparison.
@Anarchonist: “If I did that, I’d currently go around thinking all dentists like to crush little kids’ self-esteem for shits and giggles.
Wait, what do you mean they all do that?”
Hey! Stop the misodentry! I know several very nice dentists. NADALT.
Dentist I went to as a kid had guns displayed on his wall. Charming fellow.
@Bina – Oh, yeah. Reading is great, so long as you’re reading the right things. For example, I used to be in an online writer’s group. I think they were all 12, or something, because they were just that clueless. One of them wrote about the couple having sex at night and then the woman waking up in the morning, thinking “We didn’t use protection!” She immediately barfed, and felt sooooo bad that she had to send her BFF to the drug store to buy the pregnancy test for her. She peed on the stick, and immediately watched it turn purple, and knew she was pregnant. By three p.m., she was craving pickles and ice cream, fainting in her lover’s arms, and her baby bump was showing.
I actually changed my email address to get out of that writer’s group, and make sure none of them would follow me. I just couldn’t do politely constructive criticism any more after that one. Unfortunately, I was good at it, so they kept asking me for more, until I pretended I didn’t exist online, anymore.
That was about fifteen years ago, and I hope I have matured since then.
@tinyorc – ROFLSHIPMP. Excuse me, while I change.
Let me try a really simple analogy here. When I was a kid, I hated boiled cabbage, and I still do. If I’d never tried any other vegetables that I liked better, that wouldn’t have resulted in me learning to love boiled cabbage, I’d just have ended up being one of those people who don’t eat vegetables very much, maybe I’d even have thought that I hated vegetables. If a partner had decided to catch me early, when boiled cabbage was the only vegetable other than boiled carrots that I’d tried, and somehow convinced me that those were my only options, I would not then have become an enthusiastic consumer of boiled cabbage. I might have grudgingly eaten it occasionally, just to be polite, but it didn’t take experiencing the many other kinds of vegetable dishes that I love for me to notice that, hey, I really dislike the taste of boiled cabbage. And even if said partner had tried to prevent me from noticing that there were other options out there, I would probably have run across a random interesting dish when eating out with friends or a cool food blog at some point.
So, unless Undfreeland intends to so thoroughly isolate his theoretical sexually inexperienced future girlfriend that she’s never able to talk to other women about sex, read romance novels, watch movies, or in any other way notice that hey, lots of other women seem to actually enjoy the sex that they’re having, she’s going to notice that having a sex life that you don’t enjoy isn’t actually inevitable. And even if he tries to isolate her so that she never comes across that information, she’s still going to notice that she doesn’t like the sex that she’s having with him, because people know when they don’t like things.
Michelle – whoa, that sounds like FanStory, though I don’t think that site’s been around as long. Some gems, but a whole lot more dreck and people who couldn’t take constructive criticism at all (the prize goes to the “you’re not God” guy).
A bunch of anti-dentites in this thread!
Cassandra – heheh, boiled cabbage is an extremely apt analogy for these dudes.
RE: Cassandrakitty
Yup, good analogy. I endured the Raping Year because I was a child who the guy actually managed to persuade was broken and thereby incapable of enjoying sex. (Thankfully, he was proven completely wrong, it was just that he was a rapist.)
So then I KICKED HIM OUT. Because I decided I’d rather be broken and celibate than getting raped all the damn time.
And yet, you keep coming back to this site, which is full of…wait for it…HUMAN WIMMENZ!!! I can only assume you’re a glutton for punishment.
As for that comparison of cuckoldry and rape, wow…apples to oranges much? And if you really think being cheated is worse than being raped, you deserve everything bad that you got in the past, and everything bad you’re gonna get in the future.
In short, sirrah, go cuckold thyself.
RandomPester doesn’t seem to realize that you can’t quit a job that you’ve already been fired from.
RE: Bina
You know what, I’ll confess an insecurity here: I am PETRIFIED of having to share my husband sexually with someone. I don’t just mean cheating either, I readily admit I could never handle a poly or nonmonogamous relationship. I can handle hubby flirting with everything not nailed down, sure, no problem, but the idea of being cheated on in particular is devastating. (Poly, at least, I’d be consenting to, even though I know I’d be really bad at it.)
The thing is, though, that terror is still nothing compared to the rape I’ve undergone. Like, the worst that happens if I’m cheated on is the relationship ends, I cry a lot, I watch The Big Gay Musical about a bazillion times, and eventually I move on, maybe with some trust issues. You know, shit I’m used to dealing with.
The worst thing that happens if I get raped is… uh. I get pregnant. And fucking STDs. And I live in a fucking state where trying to get an abortion is a fucking trial. And being cheated on is frightening, but being forced to go through the medical horror of birthing my rapist’s child has been my personal nightmare since I was sixteen and it first came up.
Like, not even mentioning the mental effects on me, just on a sheer pragmatism level, being raped is way worse than getting cheated on. I mean, sweet fucking Jesus.
LBT, I hear ya.
I must be one of nature’s monogamists, because I’d never contemplate being poly myself, and if a man expected me to “share” him, with or without it going both ways, I’d be showing him the door. I’d be hurt and upset to get cheated on behind my back, too. But I don’t need to get raped, or to have been raped, to know which is worse. It’s just absolutely no fucking comparison!
Bina – seconding all that!
RE: Bina
Yeah, I’m possibly the most monogamous person on the planet, aside from Kittehs. Much to everyone’s surprise, it turned out my husband was pretty mono too — SERIALLY monogamous, sure, but that’s it. We experimented with poly once, it blew up in our faces and we both agreed that it was a terrible idea that we should never ever do again. (Note that none of this was the third person’s fault; he was a perfect gentleman about it. It just wasn’t for us.)
I recognize that it’s due to insecurity and trauma history on my part, but yeah, mono is definitely for me.
@Kittehserf – I’m not familiar with FanStory, but this group was mostly young women writing fan fiction, yeah. It started out as me helping one girl, who had read one of my fanfics, and enjoyed it. She asked me for help with hers, and I offered some good advice. She then introduced me to some friends of hers who also wrote, and they sought my help, and the next thing I knew, I was the senior mentor for a “writers’ group” of teens who really did not know how to write.
One of them actually told me she was going to write a story about “this guy meets this girl.” And that was her entire plot. I asked questions, and made “suppositions” (read that as “I suppose next you’ll throw in X, for conflict), and other things until there was some sort of a story there.
Another one had taken the “don’t repeat a word on the same page” to heart. First, her character had blue eyes (I think they might have been sapphire, azure, AND cerulean, throw in a limpid pool, and possibly a summer sky). Then, gazed at someone with her “orbs,” and eventually, she literally “cast her oculars around the room.” I so wish I was joking.
And let us not forget that everywhere in Florida, including Tampa, Cocoa Beach, and Miami, is merely 15 minutes away from downtown Orlando. And that Orlando has a “marina.”
And a pool table in a tour bus.
Sorry, let me rephrase that. A pool table, twelve (12!!!) bunks, a full kitchen, bathroom WITH shower, living room, TV/Entertainment center and dining room ON A TOUR BUS.
Let’s just say that reading “My Immortal” brings back some not-so-fond memories. However, for that one, I can just point and laugh and not worry about how to give beneficial criticism, in a way that will not squelch their creative spirit or self esteem, while still managing to wrench some quality out of their base material.
I used to want to be an English teacher. I don’t, anymore.
@WWTH – “They do have their own schools!”
Love it. Thanks so much for that clip!
@LBT – Much respect for your strength. It took a while to build up, but YOU DID IT!
Showering in broken Legos is too good for this _+___#%@#%^
Sorry. I can’t right now. Noping right out of the room.
Random troll referenced Howard the Duck.
Holy fucking shit, dude, get better pop culture references.
Hello to all the Human Women out there. Any of you pleased Random Troll is swearing off us? **raises hand**
i had to laugh at the potshot to cougars. mgtow’s must harbor a special, secret, seething hatred for older women who date younger men. i’m 40 & have dated younger men for years. these mgtow losers truly lack imagination if they can’t fathom the intense compatibility of younger men with older women. it must just eat them up inside. lulz
And it works just as well the other way – at 25, I shacked up with a 42-year-old for eighteen months. I can vouch first-hand for what I got out of it (by far the most inventive, experimental and energetic sexual relationship of my life up to then), and she seemed pretty happy about the arrangement too.
Which is why I simply can’t fathom the MRA/PUA/MGTOW rhetoric about women being past their sell-by date. Or indeed why I’d prefer going down their preferred route to the one that I picked for myself. I even once had someone explain to me that I was clearly a victim of Stockholm Syndrome – but since it was patently obvious that I’d had a vastly superior sex life and emotional life to him, I genuinely didn’t have a clue what point he was trying to make. “Be like me and you’ll be as miserable as I am!” Er, OK…
**also raises hand**
It is interesting that he phrased it that way. What other species is he now planning to inflict his sexual attentions upon? Animals can’t consent to sex with you, creeper.
Maybe he’s going back to harassing women of whatever alien species he comes from, or finding an AI he considers female. If he’s planning on raping animals, then the curses he’s due are of the unprintable-on-Mammoth-Hunters variety.
Maybe he’s one of those dudes who plans to marry his anime pillow.
Michelle – WHOA that’s bad writing! I just spent a week with three buddies who’re all writers/editors. They would be torn between barf and laugh at those efforts – and they’ve seen some dire stuff too.
FanStory wasn’t quite that bad – at least it had a mix of ages and abilities, and some people have gone on to be merit-published after first airing their work there – but oy, yeah, there was stuff that was as bad as those girls wrote, but by adults.
Somewhat OT, have you heard of a site called Lousy Book Covers? It’s priceless. Google it, it’s great for a laugh.
” rel=”nofollow”>This woeful effort was on there – we dubbed the hero Wide Guy for obvious reasons.
LBT –
::bows::
Photo-finish, equal winners in the Monogamy Stakes, LBT and Kittehserf! 🙂
@Michelle C Young and weirwoodtreehugger:
Ooh, are we doing dentist-themed bigot impressions next?
*Ahem*
Great, another dental hygiene warrior. Getting a little gum-hurt, are we? Why don’t you care about real tissues? You’re stepping on my free teeth!
(”Free teeth?” Okay, now I’m just being silly.)
I am not an anti-dentite! I have friends who are dentists, and they think it’s okay for me to make jokes and call them ”denties”! What’s causing this tooth sensitivity? You know what, by enamel knighting, you’re perpetuating the victimhood status of dentists. You’re the real anti-dentite! Checkmate, dentistists!
Seriously though, I love that clip too. Thanks for that!
Joking or not, that is hilarious! How many bleedin’ times does one have to mention her eyes on one page, anyway? Yeah, yeah, Baby’s got blue eyes. WE KNOW. MOVE ON ALREADY!
(My absolute faves for awfulness, though, are all those steamy passages from the trashy romances of the ’80s. How many euphemisms for penis can we cram in there? Oy.)