Silly lesbian! Girls are icky. Also, you probably don't even exist.
MGTOWers, mostly straight and mostly narrow, don’t really spend a lot of time discussing lesbians. Lesbians, after all, are not only women, but women who like other women — you know, like like. But recently one of the regulars on MGTOWforums.com discovered the concept of “lesbian bed death” – the mythological notion that lesbians in long term relationships barely ever have sex – and, well, a very strange conversation ensued. Shade47 started off the discussion with these, er, observations:
Looks like the super hip lesbos forgot the small fact that in lesbian relations no one ends up paying for sex so it doesn’t happen…
The, “we don’t need men not even for sex.” club isn’t a banging scene these days.
I guess this outcome should have been obvious since you can’t put a hole inside of a hole. I keep trying to picture that and it sends me in a logic loop like a computer tasked with calculating infinity. I just can’t grasp how nothing going into nothing can create the best thing since sliced bread. …
Shade47 is so baffled by lesbians that he refuses to believe that they actually exist:
Do you guys think women are really lesbians or is it just another form of “look at me” attention whoring? I mean they don’t have sex, they don’t reproduce, they don’t achieve financial success like the gay male community does. In fact I’m not sure exactly what lesbians are doing in their relationships. I still don’t believe they are real. In order for two people to come together there must be a very specific purpose and attention whoring is shallow even for women. They usually only shack up for babies and money.
Drauger seconded the notion that lesbians are imaginary:
What do you think would happy [if] you put [two] hateful women in a home together? Bliss? Bitches go fucking shit nuts if some man isn’t giving them attention.
Repeat after me: there is no such thing as a Lesbian, only really confused women. Women are by nature whores that will change their whims depending on the whim, depending on what they perceive society rewarding them for, i.e. whores.
However there are such things as gay men, they are men who have made a defining choice.
Goldenfetus added some conspiracy theory to the mix:
Honestly, I think the entire homosexual scene is about attention – for both men and women. I’m not denying that there are men who are attracted to men and women who are attracted to women, but I do believe the entire ‘gay culture’ was intentionally manufactured to further destroy the birthrate, with the reward for participation being attention and the approval of their elite masters.
Avoidwomen, for his part, not only accepted the existence of lesbianism; he also predicted a big lesbian upswing in the future after more and more men Go Their Own Way:
I expect to see a big increase in lesbianism as more and more men avoid women. We know that women are far more social than men and they really hate being alone, even having cats is considered companionship. As for sex, it’s possible one lesbian couple is a dyke with high T(for a woman) so she pressures the more feminine lesbian for sex and the dyke may actually be paying for sex.
Then he returned to his favorite hobbyhorses: sexbots and “virtual reality” girls:
It will be very interesting to see how much sex men have vs. how much sex women have with their virtual reality computer generated men and women in the year 2020. I bet most men get laid everyday while women try it a few times and not bother with sex anymore when she realizes there’s no money in it. Women will use VR men for his virtual money while men will be with virtual women for virtual sex.
The Great One imagined a slightly different result:
I think that instead of a rise in lesbianism we will see a rise in bisexuality among females.
When females can’t find a man, they will settle for another female (or several pets). .. These female on female relationships will fall to the side when an available man offers a long term relationship.
Several pets? Hmm. If this guy is right, the future may bring severe cat shortages, sending the price of cats through the roof!
I’m putting all my money in cat futures right now.
Stay tuned for more on MGTOWers and lesbians. It gets even weirder.
I’m not sure how this is relevant? I mean sure, there’s a lot of things like this out there, but what makes you think we’d react to such threads any differently than we react to your comments?
Brandon: @Magpie: “feminists say so” is the worst “rule of thumb” ever. I don’t base my decisions and actions based on what a group of people will think of me.
Which is why he doesn’t worry about false rape accusations. It doesn’t matter what people think of him.
“I don’t base my decisions and actions based on what a group of people will think of me.”
So what were you planning on doing with a list of what constitutes misogyny? Grade it?
@CassandraSays
“Or they could just admit that it’s none of their business, that would work too.”
The point of the manboobz site is to butt into everyone else’s business. Maybe you should take your own advice.
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@Eneya
“calling women slurs on the ground their are women”
No, women are called slurs on the grounds of their actions, not simply because they’re women.
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@Magpie
“if you can’t work it out for yourself, ‘feminists say so’ is a pretty good rule of thumb to tell if something is misogynistic.”
If you want to find out if a womans actions or words are misandric, ask an MRA.
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@ithiliana
“Here are some statistics presented by one of the experts on my campus about the situation for GLBT people in the United States: she and I are trying to get a Safe Spaces Program started on our very rural, very backward university.”
An expert? A self-anointed expert told you this? Manboobz is chock full of them. A safe space? Kind of like a propaganda headquarters where you can make up leaflets and such telling people what to think? No one has to accept LGBT as normal or desirable.
“4x more likely to commit suicide”
One of your propaganda stats from your self-anointed expert? We have real stats saying men are 4x more likely to commit suicide. That seems okie dokie, yet when a false flag about your precious perversion is presented now it’s a problem?
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@sarahejones
“Simon, people like you are why I don’t usually identify myself as bisexual.”
No, you ID as bi because you fuck both men and women.
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@felixBC
“So what were you planning on doing with a list of what constitutes misogyny?”
At least we now know what constitutes misogyny. Anything any woman says is misogyny, is misogyny.
Oh, here we go.
1000 comments by morning?
Could be, David, depending on which of our resident contrarians gets hold of it.
Kittens!
Do you think we can make him go blue screen? I’m still not convinced he’s an actual person.
“4x more likely to commit suicide”
One of your propaganda stats from your self-anointed expert? We have real stats saying men are 4x more likely to commit suicide. That seems okie dokie, yet when a false flag about your precious perversion is presented now it’s a problem?
who said that it was okay? i think suicide rates among men are a terrible problem. I’d also venture to guess they may be even higher among gay men though but I do not know for sure. Also I’d bet suicide rates were still higher among men than women pre-feminism but once again I don’t know for sure. It’s not because women have things better though (necessarily, i actually am in the school of thought that on average in the end patriarchy might hurt men even more than woman) . I don’t really feel like going into it right now but I think it has to do with ideals of “masculinity” involving not being emotional. Anyways though, saying that homosexual and bisexual people have a higher suicide rate doesn’t equal “it’s okay that men commit suicide more often than women”…
“The point of the manboobz site is to butt into everyone else’s business. Maybe you should take your own advice.”
How is posting and commenting on things that buffoons have posted and commented on elsewhere somehow butting into someone elses business? If said buffoons don’t want their posts and comments posted and commented on, they can easily make their blogs private.
“No, women are called slurs on the grounds of their actions, not simply because they’re women.”
Yes, if a woman is uppity enough to exist, she’s a bitch/slut/whore/cunt/dyke/cathoarder.
“If you want to find out if a womans actions or words are misandric, ask an MRA.”
That’s akin to asking the folks on Stormfront about whether something an African American did was moral… Everyting a woman says, does, thinks or feels will be decried as misandry by an MRA.
“An expert? A self-anointed expert told you this? Manboobz is chock full of them. A safe space? Kind of like a propaganda headquarters where you can make up leaflets and such telling people what to think? No one has to accept LGBT as normal or desirable.”
Nobody has to accept the MRA lifestyle as normal or desirable either. Yes, here you and your brothers in misery, making up websites and forums dedicated to how much women suck and how much better they’d be if they were more like the average Golden Retriever. And complaining that nobody takes you seriously and that you don’t get what you want… Hmm.
“No, you ID as bi because you fuck both men and women.”
Zie ID’s any way zie pleases. AIt’s not up to you to tell anyone what they are or what they should be. In fact, I’d like to suggest that you stop doing so for yourself as well, as you do quite a lousy job of it.
“At least we now know what constitutes misogyny. Anything any woman says is misogyny, is misogyny.”
Ah! I see. The difference between feminists and MRA’s! To a feminist, anything a woman says is misogynistic is misogyny. To an MRA, anything woman says is misandry. Got it!
Men’s higher rates of suicide have more to do with men being less likely to seek treatment for depression. That had fuck-all to do with feminism (except where feminism is trying to get rid of “manly” stereotypes that involve not getting help when you need it and erasing that stigma).
“I don’t really feel like going into it right now but I think it has to do with ideals of “masculinity” involving not being emotional.”
Exactly. Or only showing acceptable “male emotions” like anger. And when feminists try to explain that it’s okay that men get help or express their full range of emotions, out come the protests of “STOP FEMINIZING US!!!!11”
I don’t get how they link suicide to male oppression either. Are feminists pushing men off the bridge or tying a noose around their neck? Are feminists the ones who created such rigid gender roles? No they did not. So please men who are suffering from depression or suicidal thoughts, go see a therapist because it could save your life.
@NWO: Um, you do know that not all GLBT are WIMMINZ, right? There are men!
Although silly me, gay, bisexual, and transgender men presumably don’t COUNT in your previous manly man stats.
@Molly Ren:
Ah, it’s you again, the one with the cute boy earrings… 😉
I haven’t said that anywhere, of course there’s nothing deep about bisexuality… grrr!
But is it so far fetched to think, that the view “heterosexuality is the normal, natural state, evident from the complementary design of the male and female body, and every homosexual act is an aberration”, as oppressive as it was, had at least an ‘appealing’ simplicity to it?
Also it’s called sexual diversity for a reason. Diversity = opposite of simplicity.
@CassandraSays:
Yes, but to me this is just natural.
If it’s not just about factual truth, how can anyone argue without referring to subjective feelings (at least implicitly) at some point? I mean, it’s also not rationally explainable why it is a bad idea to break down the Great Pyramid of Giza and build an airport there.
“But is it so far fetched to think, that the view ‘heterosexuality is the normal, natural state, evident from the complementary design of the male and female body, and every homosexual act is an aberration’, as oppressive as it was, had at least an ‘appealing’ simplicity to it?”
Hate crimes: They’re oppressive, yet simple and require absolutely no empathy or critical thinking skills! Commit yours today!
Fuck you, dude. Are you for real?
@Quackers
“I don’t get how they link suicide to male oppression either. Are feminists pushing men off the bridge or tying a noose around their neck? Are feminists the ones who created such rigid gender roles? No they did not. So please men who are suffering from depression or suicidal thoughts, go see a therapist because it could save your life.”
Since men and women are different men are supposed to be masculine. It’s when women poke their collective all-knowing noses into how men should act that the problem arises. Men don’t have a feminine side because they’re men. Men kill themselves because modern society tries to feminize them, which is an impossibility. Blaming the patriarchy as always shifts all blame from women onto men.
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“Although silly me, gay, bisexual, and transgender men presumably don’t COUNT in your previous manly man stats.”
Did you ever think all those suicides were cause by trying to regender men into women? Critical thought and cause and effect isn’t exactly feminist fortay’.
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@LyssatakeaBow
“Also I’d bet suicide rates were still higher among men than women pre-feminism but once again I don’t know for sure. It’s not because women have things better though (necessarily, i actually am in the school of thought that on average in the end patriarchy might hurt men even more than woman) . I don’t really feel like going into it right now but I think it has to do with ideals of “masculinity” involving not being emotional.”
Pre-feminism suicide was practically non-exisitant. Obviously if you cared, feminism would be the first thing you’d want to irradicate. Women have it better in all realms of society. Law, MSM, marriage/divorce, child custody, education, charity, employment, criminal sentencing, and every year the entitlements pile up.Calling any oppression of men by women patriarchy, is simpy shifting the blame from women to men. Masculinity has never been men not being emotional, this is your indoctrination to justify your treatment of men, and a poor attempt at justifying further abuse of men in the name of feminism.
@Shora:
Of course there is absolutely nothing inherently (morally) wrong with sex, it’s possible to have consensual sex without being manipulative and harming anybody.
Originally the question was, why I find sex disgusting. Since this is just a feeling, there’s nothing to prove only to explain or to make it understandable.
I don’t experience my own sexual desire as something nice and benign, if I go for longer time without sex or so, it will just happen that I have sometimes strong (at least for me) sexual desire in the very simple form (sorry to be blunt) of feelings like “Oh you hottie, I just would like to f+ck you.”, and then I just can’t help but ascribe the negative traits I associate with my own sexual desire to other sexual people.
It’s probably only the fact that sex is such an extremely common thing that I don’t feel even worse about it (there are too many nice and decent people around who like sex).
I just wrote that because some of you want to paint me as extremely odd, while many of the views I hold are not uncommon.
@Molly Ren:
What’s that for a kind of answer? Why are you that angry? Why do you have to understand everything the wrong way?
@Molly Ren
Calling someone’s valid opinion of homosexuality/bi/trans being revolting act a hate crime, is feminists intolerance. Do as I say, believe as I believe or it’s a crime. That’s quite a totalitarian Government you support. I completely support a persons right to find the LGBT disgusting, just as you support the right to find opinions like mine disgusting. Your opinion is just as much of a “hate crime” as mine.
NWO seems to think that hating people is a valid opinion, if it’s the right sort of hate.
Hating bi people… good.
Hating gay people good.
Hating people who think being bi, or gay, is ok, good.
Hating people who hate people… Bad.
“I mean, it’s also not rationally explainable why it is a bad idea to break down the Great Pyramid of Giza and build an airport there.”
Yes it is – ultimately, it’s bad for tourism and will cost Egypt to lose lots of money.
The problem with your nattering about subjective feelings is that there’s no reason why your subjective feelings should be any more important than anyone else’s. Your morality resembles that of a small child, which is really quite sad.
Simon, that nice, simple view that “every homosexual act is an aberration” is what causes hate crimes. Or do you think the people who, say, beat up and drive gay kids to suicide are just confused by all this modern stuff?
I’m pretty sure what Molly Ren was actually saying is that people use the same reasoning to excuse hateful opinions as they do to excuse hateful actions, not “Opinions are hate crimes!”
Dracula: His blissfully ignorant “Why do you have to understand *everything* the wrong way?” was priceless, wasn’t it?
Sorry if I stepped on your toes there, Molly Ren.
It was indeed.
I’ve done no wrong, I put the word appealing in ‘ ‘.
Also you don’t explain where this “every homosexual act is an aberration” view comes from. Why shouldn’t it be the partially the desire for simplicity? It’s much simpler just to say “The heterosexual act is right, everything else is wrong” than to argue about complicated distinctions, which sexual acts are harmful and which are not and should be allowed.
Dracula: Nah, not really. It’s just… ugh. It’s like saying “Gay people having to live their lives in hiding was so SIMPLE! People still not being able to get married is SO SIMPLE! People erasing bisexuality makes everything SIMPLE!”
Simon: It’s not fucking simple for me. “Homosexuality is an aberration” affects my LIFE, you ignorant twit. It’s affected millions of people’s lives…
When I get horny, I also have disturbing, graphic, and often violent fantasies I know that these fantasies don’t reflect on me as a person, and I also know that some of these fantasies are things that I don’t want in reality (for example, I have rape fantasies and I most emphatically do not want to be raped).
What I’m saying is such fantasies don’t reflect your moral character. What matters is if you pursue them in an enthusiastically consenting way.
I find it incredibly sad when someone doesn’t accept themselves or their sexuality. Tone is hard with text, and I know that could sound patronizing, but it really isn’t. Life is so much better when you don’t guilt yourself for your sexual desires, and you can have some really hot sex, too.
I (and I think others will agree with me, or emphatically correct me if I’m wrong) don’t think that this prejudice against bi people is odd, or uncommon. I think it is fucked up and wrongheaded, but unfortunately not uncommon.
Yea okay there NWO…like many men, especially MRA type men, don’t constantly tell women how to properly behave like women, or shame them when they feel they get out of line. Seriously do you not read what your MRA pals write? How many times has Meller said women should be submissive? how many times do you all shame women for being “sluts”? how many times have I heard the same old garbage… “women’s place is in the home. Women are not as smart as men. Women are too emotional etc” no matter how many times these beliefs have been debunked and proven wrong.
What do you think causes thoughts of suicide? extreme negative emotions. Sadness. Despair. Hopelessness. If you believe emotions are a feminine thing, and that men don’t have them, then you really can’t try to shift the blame of their suicides onto women. You also do a great job of shaming all the men who need to properly let these negative emotions out (ie in therapy) but since you believe that’s all girly shit, you contribute to them having to suffer in silence.
I personally could care less how men act. As long as it doesn’t infringe on my safety, freedom and rights, and the safety, freedom and rights of other women, then men can beat the crap out of each other for fun or do whatever it is they decide is true masculinity for themselves. Why is it to some men, masculinity is always at the expense of women? just leave us out of it. Actually that’s one of the things I agree with with the MGTOW/Zeta thing, you define masculinity yourselves and don’t base it on how many women you sleep with or attract. Sounds good to me. Confidence and strength should be built up yourself, not by relying on others for it. This is a good rule of thumb for all people.
And just to let you know, I know men who have some feminine traits, and they’re happy and confident guys.
Also people tie themselves into some ridiculous knots both morally and logically when they’re trying to justify homophobia. So no, it would actually be much simpler to just accept that homosexuality is natural.
What’s so wrong about looking at someone and thinking “I want to fuck that person”, anyway? If you act on that urge in a way that’s harmful or annoying to the other person then yes, that part is wrong, but the desire itself is morally neutral.
I think a more appropriate word for that type of thinking is “simplistic”.
I think I kinda sorta see where Simon (might) be getting at, though.
It is easier to not question what society tells you (homosexuality is gross and bad, women who have too much sex are gross and bad), because having your eyes opened to the fucked upness of society, and trying to grapple with it, and deal with inequality and see things that really just suck and feeling helpless about it? With all that, I could see how some people would find it easier to stick their heads in the sand and just go with the flow, especially people with a lot of privilege.
It’s cowardly and weak and stupid, but understandable.
@Pecunium
Hating the acts of a group of people isn’t the same as hating people. Hating people for their existence is feminist doctrine. Just as the LGBT claim pride for their actions, I am extremley proud to find their actions repulsive.
“I am extremley proud to find their actions repulsive.”
You seem to have a very mistaken idea of what those actions *are*, tho…
NWO translation: “I don’t hate gay people! I just hate when they love who they love and have sex with people they find attractive! There’s a huge difference guys!”
NWO, what is wrong with gay sex?
Shora, NWOslave thinks everyone who’s gay is a pedo.
“Hating people for their existence is feminist doctrine.”
This is all just a big game of “I know you are but what am I?” to you, isn’t it?
@Shora
“NWO translation: “I don’t hate gay people! I just hate when they love who they love and have sex with people they find attractive! There’s a huge difference guys!”
NWO, what is wrong with gay sex?”
I can’t think of anything not wrong with it. Just because an indocrinated opinion falls from a feminists mouth doesn’t make it a fact.
I’m thinking its just not worth trying to reason with NWO anymore…he’s never going to get it. He’s either that dedicated to his bigotry, or very dedicated to trolling.
Oh right, how could I forget?
NWO, a hypothetical. Let’s imagine a fantasy world that has unicorns roaming free, where homosexual people are no more or less likely to abuse children than heterosexual people. Hell, since we’re talking hypotheticals and rainbows, let’s imagine that in this world, no children are ever abused. Adults only have sex with consenting adults.
In this world, would you hate
gay peopleI’m sorry I mean their actions?@CassandraSays:
That’s just a cop out. What about the Khami Ruins in Zimbabwe? There’s virtually no tourism there.
But what if the subjective feeling of the majority is different from yours? You would still want to be able to argue that they might be wrong. Now, since we talked about gays, take Jamaica, they are so extremely homophobic there, the angry mob literally lynches them on the streets. So if you would live in Jamaica you would still want to argue that the moral feelings of the majority are wrong and your morality which uses simpler, more basic morals and infers the rest by reason is right.
This is not actually an answer to my question. I’m not the one stating facts, you are. I’m merely asking the reasoning that lead you to those facts. So really, what is wrong with it? Do you think straight sex is wrong too?
Things are so simple in Jamaica!
@VoiP :
It’s not the technology per se, I’m not so frightened by the fact that there’s no person, who could fully understand a modern CPU, it’s the sort of technology that fundamentally changes society, puts it’s mark on society (like globalization). Also the fact that most “world views” have come under considerable suspicion. There’s not much left that we can trust.
Simon: The heterosexual act is right, everything else is wrong” than to argue about complicated distinctions, which sexual acts are harmful and which are not and should be allowed.
Ok, go ahead.
Make an argument which justifies one expression of sexuality, and condemns the all others (which is your position).
Without resorting to the naturalistic fallacy (which is provably wrong, as there are lots of homosexual acts performed by non-humans), explain what makes homosexual (or bisexual) behavior wrong, compared to the heterosexual behavavior you would like to give preference.
But what if the subjective feeling of the majority is different from yours?
What do you think are moral wrongs, immutable. Because there were lots of people who thought slavery was fine. To go all Godwin, there were lots of people who thought shipping Jews off (out of sight, out of mind) was just fine. You said (IIRC) that you are functionalist, of some sort, so what the problem with homosexuality?
NWO. Which homosexuals do you love and cherish.
You pretend that you can hate the group, and like the members, but your (repeated) statements are quite to the contrary. In the abstract you pretend that you are ok with people, but presented with them you insult them, abuse them, say they are disgusting.
You say that they repulse you, but you aren’t hating on the, nope, nosirree… but when “feminists” say they disapprove of the actions of MRA (which are actually hurting women) they are hateful. You hate people who are doing you no harm, and you hate people who are protesting people who are doing them harm.
You are proud of those hates.
You are a goat
NWO is acting like a jackass again. Bless your heart, you’re so predictable. And out of touch with common reality.